[SeaGypsy]

Rosco worked several years in mining administration, he can give specific advice in this area. I signed up for the free course and sent him a nice thank you note, he now updates me every week, it's a cool service.

I have been very close to where you are CD.
I went from living very fringe alternative lifestyles for nearly 20 years, on intentional communities, to full on mainstream career building. There were many times along the way I doubted my own sanity, working ever harder and longer with no noticeable improvement in lifestyle, if anything the opposite.
Eventually I kind of clicked and 'got it'. Maximising income whilst minimising costs. I bought a cheap old truck and a cheap old caravan and stuck them together, this was home at work on remote communities (very high wages, easy work) for nearly 4 years at an initial cost of $7k and about $50 a week in inputs.
For my next job in Cairns, I will buy a cheap old 30 ft yacht, live on it free in the Cairns river while I fix it up and make a profit selling it in peak tourist season this winter. My wife has Aussie residency and my children are dual national so they can come any time they want and stay on my yacht rent free. I am building up a life in the Philippines but maintaining a presence and income in Australia, without it costing me an arm and a leg or all of my time/ energy.

[Crazy_Dad]

We need some Egypt style riots. It is just a matter of time. I can't be the only one.

What are we rioting to get? The Egyptians rioted in the hope of getting "free and fair" democratic representation.
We already have "free and fair" democratic representation, personally i agree with you that it blows, but what is it that you are forwarding as an alternative?
I'm willing to bet if you park in any Perth intersection and offer to hold hands and sing koombyah you won't get beaten by the cops or media, you'll get run over by a semi long before the cops arrive.

Don't mean to be down on you, you sound depressed enough, good luck.

I'd like to have a full blown revolution. We don't have democracy, it is a smoke screen. We have corporations in control of government who will "Farm" us to use SG's term till we drop. They will continue to ramp up immigration further compounding the current issues. You can literally buy your way in. This forces people like me further down the food chain and rewards the corrupt elite at the top. Note that I have no beef at all with the poor and desperate who come by boat, they are a tiny fraction of immigration and are not the problem. We need to stop the cashed up people on airplanes over 400k of them a year.

Edit: we need to kick out the current politicians and introduce a way to get honest ones. Maybe have a draft system, much like jury duty. I don't know what the answer is but the current crop of corporate cronies are feathering their own nests at our expense.

[papa moose]

Yeah mate, but i didn't ask you what is wrong with Oz, i asked what are you planning to replace it with.
You say we don't have a democracy, which is true to a strict definition, we have "representitive democracy", which sucks and tends to "represent" proportional to the amount of money you donate to political parties. So again, i'm not arguing with you, your preaching to the choir.
I get that your angry and pissed off but what do you hope to achieve by burning down the old? What is your vision for the new?
True democracy like the Athenian's, one man one vote on every issue? Who do you trust to do the counting? AEC?
Give us your manifesto, your vision, where are you heading, tell me and maybe i'll join you on the barricade.

[Crazy_Dad]

Yeah mate, but i didn't ask you what is wrong with Oz, i asked what are you planning to replace it with.
You say we don't have a democracy, which is true to a strict definition, we have "representitive democracy", which sucks and tends to "represent" proportional to the amount of money you donate to political parties. So again, i'm not arguing with you, your preaching to the choir.
I get that your angry and pissed off but what do you hope to achieve by burning down the old? What is your vision for the new?
True democracy like the Athenian's, one man one vote on every issue? Who do you trust to do the counting? AEC?
Give us your manifesto, your vision, where are you heading, tell me and maybe i'll join you on the barricade.

Well I will not try and produce a manifesto here and now. I have a myriad of ideas, a manifesto would take some time to develop.
I would like to see people like Kevin Thomlison, Dick Smith and the sustainable population party take a majority in a free election. Ban all political donations and lobbying by corporations. Penalty - shot for treason.

Audit the likes of Barnett in W.A. who pushed through the gas hub despite opposition, by simply taking the land from the natives. Did Woodside pay him I wonder? OR is the handshake coming in a few years when the dust has settled?
Audit relationships and contacts between officials and businesmen who gain from growth driven development.
Stop 457 visas where there are Australians applying for the job. Ban outsourcing jobs overseas.
Introduce trade barriers. They worked great, look where globalism has gotten us.

Have a population policy based on Australias real carrying capacity to ensure our wilderness doesn't all become carparks and housing estates(Probably already in overshoot).
End negative gearing on houses.
Ban foreign ownership of houses and farms. They advertise new housing estates in China!
Close tax loopholes for the mega rich.
De-privatise all utilities and stop the further privatisation of public assets.

Look into how Germany avoids housing bubbles and impliment policies to mimic that outcome.

Any ideas from you PM?

[gandolf]

Hey CD I am very surprised that anyone living in Australia (Particularly WA) is strugling. By the time you take all the government hand outs (Family Tax A and Family Tax B) add that to any form of income then it should add up to a reasonable amount.

I agree that House prices and rents are very high in WA but there are also some bargains out there if you have a look. (Balga, Armadale, Kelscott etc)

Here are a couple of pointers that may help

1. Keystart, This is a government owned lending facility that will lend up to 98% of the purchase price of a home to a maximum of $400,000. by the time you add on the first home owners grant (7,000 I think) you can get into a home with practically no savings. The mortgage payments will probably be less than your rent.
2. Health Insurance. Given the good state of public health in WA (yes it is good compared to anywhere else I have seen) you do not need more than general cover. Dont worry about hospital cover at this stage.
3. There are places screaming out for unskilled mine workers. I know cause I work for one that employs 13,000 in Australia alone and we simply cant get enough people (Cooks, Kitchen Hands, Bar staff, Security etc). If you are clean (No drugs or alchohol) and are willing to work away on shifts then you should be able to get a job. I had a friend who is a qualified tradsman who was earning $120,000 sweeping the floors at one mine site.

Dont get down CD just get out and make it work for you.

[SeaGypsy]

Or live at work when at work and at the cheapest reasonable location within reasonable flying time.

[Hawkcreek]

Come to America and I will let you and your family live in a cabin on my property in exchange for labor in the garden. But only if you have an cool Aussie accent and know how to brew good beer.

Thanks for the offer I have the accent, but I doubt I can swim that far. I used to brew beer, will be starting it again soon.

A gracious reply to my un-thinking flippant first post - thank you. I can see from your posts that you have been doing a lot of thinking about the causes for your situation and the political system that seems to be stacked against you (and all of us). I don't really have any solutions, either. I do like your lottery idea for representative government. It seems that the political pipeline is full of clones of the guys in power, so voting doesn't seem to have any chance of working any more. Maybe a lottery is a better idea.
Maybe a lottery with strict term limits, similiar to military service, would bring the political process back towards service to the people.
Good luck with your difficulties.

[pup55]

The delightful town of Clark SD would love to have you.

http://www.city-data.com/zips/57225.html

It's a little town of about 2000 people in Northeast South Dakota. I've already checked the want ads for you, there is a factory job open for you at $10/hr and one for your wife, if her back gets better, at the local nursing home. Your aussie accents will get you hired, I am sure. There are about 20 other expats up there, mostly swedish, for some reason.

The median rent for a nice little house is $328 a month, you can expect to "commute" less than 10 minutes to work. The town is 99% white, about 80 percent of which are descended from the German, Scandinavian and Irish that settled that part of the country.

South Dakota has no state income tax, so you're home free on that, the Federal taxes, including social security are going to be about 15% of your gross income.

You're going to have to get a car. A couple of thousand for a junker to get you the few blocks back and forth from work, if you choose not to walk. If you drive 20 miles a day, which would be a really long drive in Clark, you'll end up spending about $3600 for your car plus gas plus insurance....

Utilities.... well, you will not need to worry too much about air conditioning but you're going to have to come up with a couple hundred a month for lights, and natural gas heating in the wintertime for your little house on the prairie.

So if my calculations are anywhere close to accurate, you'll still have a couple thousand a month left over at the end of the month for food, and also for the problem of medical insurance, which you'll probably have to pay for somehow. Maybe your Aussie medical insurance will carry over cheaper, if not you're either going to have to gamble on you staying healthy or finding a cheap plan over here. Maybe you will ultimately be able to get a job with medical insurance, hopefully that will be the case.

Your kids will be going to school with a lot of smiling little blond, blue eyed kids in the local school system, the community is proud of its youth, like all of these little towns out in the country are... the town will close down on Friday nights to go to the football games in the fall, and you'll be expected to cheer on the basketball and wrestling teams in the winter, plus go to the school play

Food: Cheap, especially the locally grown crop of choice, Potatoes. Clark is the scene of the annual Potato Days Festival, they have mashed potato wrestling, there is a potato queen.... you'll love it. There's a big potato chip factory in town...

It's absolutely one of the best places in the world for pheasant hunting, if you are into that sort of thing, there is a little tourist industry nearby to accommodate hunters that might come in and try to get a few in the winter....There's some freshwater fishing nearby in the summer, if you are into that...

So, there are a lot worse places to live....

Here's the catch: That part of South Dakota dead flat, and is well known for howling blizzards in the winter. There's nothing but North Dakota between you and the arctic circle, and that does nothing whatsoever to slow down the wind. It'll even get pretty hot in the summertime on occasion. Big thunderstorms in the spring, too.... you'll be able to see them from miles away...absolutely spectacular if you're a storm chaser type.

It's about 40 miles to the nearest Wal Mart, and the nearest college, in Watertown, and the nearest nice restaurant....South Dakota's version of "nice" might be different from yours.

But, you'll be doing them a big favor by moving there, with the kids... They need more people.

It's not just Clark, there are hundreds of little towns up in that part of the country that have lost population over the last couple of decades that would be happy to have a young family with kids...... Wholesome, down to earth, and like everyplace else, it's what you make it.

[rockdoc123]

Ya, dats a gut idea pup....make sure dey got dem chooks, choppers and swampers wit dem when dey go der, eh?

assuming of course this Dakota/Minnesota dialect gets as far as Clark.

[pup55]

Oh, I am sure that despite the encroachment of cable TV, the Jersey Shore kids, and rap music, they sound exactly like that....

part of the community charm. Those little Aussie kids would just scratch their heads....and in about 90 days sound just like them.

[pup55]

http://www.roadsideamerica.com/story/2156



Actually it's about a three hour drive through nothing to get from Clark to Lawrence Welk's birthplace, who, for Americans of a given age is a notable cultural icon in and of himself...if you are into accordion music and wholesome entertainment....

[midnight-gamer]

CD, have you looked into advertising your financial problems in your local area? Maybe someone out there would feel some pity, it's sounds like your problems are no fault of your own, you deserve some help.

[Madpaddy]

This thread is ironic to me because every second person under the age of thirty is leaving Ireland for Australia. Friend of mine left the army here and is now a police officer in Perth. Far away hills are green and all that.

[SeaGypsy]

Perth is one of the richest per capita cities in the world and is definitely a 3 speed aconomy, Unless you owned a house there by the late 90's at latest, it's very hard to justify buying there now. There is a real identity crisis happening for family breadwinners in Australia. If you follow the status quo, you both work to fund the debt to buy the 2 cars and suburban box, in 15 to 25 years you might own something.
That's how human farming works. Debt is the money of slaves. It would be easy to get some equity back into housing in Australia by freeing up development application to allow farmlet cooperatives and encouraging owner/builders. This is not about to happen because Australia's ruling caste are baby boomers who have been playing rollover games since the 80's and now own to rent several houses/ units each. You think the govenment is going to hang these out to dry? You think they are about to stop millionaires buying residency? Look over your shoulder, there is probably a Pakistani or Somalian or some other, jealously eyeing your job from the position of minimum wage living 8 to a 1 bedroom flat.

There is only one simple solution: Maximise income/ minimise costs. However possible.
Staying in the mainstream wage/debt loop trap is not a solution, just treading water.

[papa moose]

+1

[Crazy_Dad]

Thanks all for the kind replies. Moving to the US is a daunting prospect. I would not be able to bring my sons, who live with my first wife.

As SG said above, we missed the boat on home ownership (I had a house and lost it to divorce - no keystart for me Gandalf) - and every new arrival (Sorry paddy) just makes it friken harder.

Hey CD I am very surprised that anyone living in Australia (Particularly WA) is strugling. By the time you take all the government hand outs (Family Tax A and Family Tax B) add that to any form of income then it should add up to a reasonable amount.

I agree that House prices and rents are very high in WA but there are also some bargains out there if you have a look. (Balga, Armadale, Kelscott etc)

Here are a couple of pointers that may help

1. Keystart, This is a government owned lending facility that will lend up to 98% of the purchase price of a home to a maximum of $400,000. by the time you add on the first home owners grant (7,000 I think) you can get into a home with practically no savings. The mortgage payments will probably be less than your rent.
2. Health Insurance. Given the good state of public health in WA (yes it is good compared to anywhere else I have seen) you do not need more than general cover. Dont worry about hospital cover at this stage.
3. There are places screaming out for unskilled mine workers. I know cause I work for one that employs 13,000 in Australia alone and we simply cant get enough people (Cooks, Kitchen Hands, Bar staff, Security etc). If you are clean (No drugs or alchohol) and are willing to work away on shifts then you should be able to get a job. I had a friend who is a qualified tradsman who was earning $120,000 sweeping the floors at one mine site.

Dont get down CD just get out and make it work for you.

The family tax benefit doesnt apply now my wife is working. This just pays the daycare bill and gets her out of the house for sanity reasons.
She even had her health care card taken away when she wasn't working because I earned "Too much". Since I am sharing all the dirty laundry, too much is 53k per annum.

If I lived in Kelmscott instead of Maylands I would perhaps save 50-100 bucks on rent. But the travel costs(Train & bus) would be more than wipe out the rent saving and I could add an hour a day to my travel times...not a good option. When I get a chance I like to surf - my only way of giving to myself to stay sane. Those suburbs would kill me. Balga was MORE expensive than maylands when I looked (3x1 cottage for 5 people).

1. Keystart - no go - see above
2. Dropping that this week
3. Please PM me the details. I will risk the family breakdown for cash - no choice.

The baby boomers are the enemy of the youth in Australia, unless mummy and daddy can buy you/give you a house. I'm obviously not in that position.

[SeaGypsy]

If I were stuck in Perth for some reason; these are the options I would consider:

I would look at every WWOOF farm within commuting distance. These are supposed to provide food and accommodation for 15 hours a week work. This is normally per adult and children's presence is to be negotiated. I WWOOFed with 2 step kids for several years, it was a complete blast. We lived in 5 states and 17 towns over 5 years. The children finally chose to settle in northern NSW when me and their mum split, they still have friends all over the country from this time. Many WWOOF hosts have children themselves so are happy to have more around if they are socially healthy. Last time I looked there were about 70 or 80 hosts around Perth. It's a $25 joining fee to get the book which includes all of Australia and NZ. For free you can find noticeboards on their website, but unless you are familiar with the exact area you will need the book to find the farms.

I would look at old yachts. It is possible to score some very cheap liveaboard sized yachts in Australia, Perth though is probably the worst city to buy one; by virtue of it's extreme isolation. Are there still houseboats in the Swan River? Look at a book "Handmade Houseboats" lots of cheap ways to build floating accomodation.

I would look at old motorhomes, caravans, trayback trucks capable of being built into a motorhome.
It aint glamorous when parked in suburbia, but the independence is really nice and put together with WWOOFing can make the basis of a nice lifestyle with a lot of flexibility. You could also use this to get down south more and get to know the kind of people you are much more likely to be able to cooperate with than in the city.

I would look at industrial leases. Sometimes these have very liveable built in suites and a lot of useable and relettable space. Last year in Darwin I stayed at a place where the landlord has 2 large sheds, a caretaker's residence and office block with a nice big yard and amenities block. He was pulling $1k a week from the 2 business leases, $600 a week for the office full of bunks for backpackers, $300 a week for the caretaker's house and another $400 for people camping in tents! His cost was $700 a week.

I would look at leasing the biggest house I could in Fremantle. I would put 4 bunks in every room and rent them for $120 a week each. I would live in the shed out the back in the motorhome I am fixing up.

(BTW Never let anyone convince you to buy a bus. They are too heavy, over engineered and everything on them costs a fortune. 4.5 tonne long wheelbase trucks are the go.)

[FairMaiden]

I don't understand - if your wife isn't making money then why is she working? Sanity reasons...are you kidding me? How "sane" is it to live paycheck to paycheck and be in the red? That makes no sense at all. You do what you have to do. End of story. If she isn't making money then she should stay home and babysit other ppl's kids to make a profit. Daycare here is outrageous at $900-1100 per child so a lot of low income earners have to do this to make it work. My hubby stayed home w/our older son bc he wasn't making much more than the daycare and I didn't like any of the places we looked into sending him. He didn't like it at first but you do what makes sense for your family.

And if the regulations are such that you can't pick up extra work doing ppl's computers or IT contract work on the side, maybe a change of scenery is in order.

Good luck.

[SeaGypsy]

It's pretty easy to set up a family day care service in Oz, in most states the course is only a week long and mandatory safety checks. My wife and I looked at this option recently. Under NT regs we could have a maximum of 5 kids full time equivalent plus another 5 in after school care. That would net my wife nearly 1k a week plus save us over $500 a week in care costs were she to work elsewhere. FM is correct that in this situation everything has to be on the table, income real and possible, costs mandatory and mutable.

[Crazy_Dad]

I would look at old yachts. It is possible to score some very cheap liveaboard sized yachts in Australia, Perth though is probably the worst city to buy one; by virtue of it's extreme isolation. Are there still houseboats in the Swan River? Look at a book "Handmade Houseboats" lots of cheap ways to build floating accomodation.

I would look at old motorhomes, caravans, trayback trucks capable of being built into a motorhome.
It aint glamorous when parked in suburbia, but the independence is really nice and put together with WWOOFing can make the basis of a nice lifestyle with a lot of flexibility. You could also use this to get down south more and get to know the kind of people you are much more likely to be able to cooperate with than in the city.

I would look at industrial leases. Sometimes these have very liveable built in suites and a lot of useable and relettable space. Last year in Darwin I stayed at a place where the landlord has 2 large sheds, a caretaker's residence and office block with a nice big yard and amenities block. He was pulling $1k a week from the 2 business leases, $600 a week for the office full of bunks for backpackers, $300 a week for the caretaker's house and another $400 for people camping in tents! His cost was $700 a week.

I would look at leasing the biggest house I could in Fremantle. I would put 4 bunks in every room and rent them for $120 a week each. I would live in the shed out the back in the motorhome I am fixing up.

(BTW Never let anyone convince you to buy a bus. They are too heavy, over engineered and everything on them costs a fortune. 4.5 tonne long wheelbase trucks are the go.)

I'd love a yacht, but increasingly there is nowhere to put one - again rich new comers. My Dad's old boat will have to be sold/scuttled soon as his pen fee's will double this year to 12k?!~?. They have banned live aboards on the Swan River now. So Mum and Dad's only joy left will have to go too. No more free holidays once a year at Rottnest.

I will look into the family day care idea, as that is probably the most viable option.
My major problem is I want to stay close enough to my sons to have a relationship with them. Otherwise I would do a SG scenario.
I may have to drop out anyway and figure out a way to get by. At least it would be an adventure.

Better get back to work. No 'net at home now so I tend to use it too much at work.