[Cog]

For those retiring between the ages of 55-65, with a lot of assets, there is a way to game the system and get others to pay for your healthcare costs until you go on Medicare at age 65.

Some key facts to keep in mind:

1)
ObamaCare subsidies are based solely on taxable income. If you have a million in stocks or a ten million in your checking account doesn't matter. As long as you meet the threshold for a subsidized health care, its totally based on income.

2) If you are in the age group of 55-65, make sure you have just enough earned income to bump you out of the Medicaid territory. The reason for that is that most states can claw that money back out of your estate once you die. You want just enough taxable income to qualify for the maximum subsidy but not be put on Medicaid. You can do this by working a part-time job, cashing in taxable IRA or 401K's, that sort of thing.

3) the Obama-Care website allows you to put in different amounts of taxable income to see where the break point is between Medicaid and the maximum subsidy. Play with the numbers.

4) Pay off all debt when you retire early. Your monthly expenses will be low while you get the other chumps(taxpayers) to subsidize your free health-care while you live the fat life. After all, why should I lay out $12-15K a year for health care, when there are so many people out there willing to pay it for me? That money could be better spent on guns, ammo, or European vacations.

I hope this thread will help those who are in the upper middle class to preserve their wealth for their children to inherit. Why should the poor get all the breaks when the breaks are there for the upper middle class and rich to take advantage of as well?

Oh and thanks to you Democrats for passing ObamaCare. I'm going to enjoy free health care for the next 7 years.

[Plantagenet]

This isn't a bug in Obamacare---this is one of the features of Obamacare that Obama touted when he was pushing for the law.

By eliminating the need for people to stay in jobs they don't like in order to keep healthcare coverage, Obamacare allows folks to quit those jobs and take up painting or start a new business or pursue whatever it is they'd really like to do----in your case thats retire early and travel etc.

Congrats on your good luck.

Cheers!

[vtsnowedin]

For now I still have our healthcare from my old employer though they are whittling away at it with co-pays and deductibles.
Foe somebody that has a retirement that does not cover healthcare it makes the decision to go back to work at a good paying job harder. If your in the 25% tax bracket with your job added to your taxable retirement you will get to pay full freight on Obama care making your total tax plus healthcare bill close to 50 percent of your earnings. Has to be a job you really like or you might as well stay home.

[Outcast_Searcher]

This kind of thing is what's wrong with "the system", but given how politics works, it's the reality.

A beast as complex as the ACA causes all sorts of distortions and unfair things.

Clearly gaming the system isn't the intent of the ACA. OTOH, like much of tax law, if you can legally get away with it, educated people will do so.

The problem I have with the system (and I am benefiting from it) is that young people subsidize the cost of the insurance for the older people by the ratio limit of 3 the ACA imposes on the cost for older vs. younger people. If over the next decade my medical costs realistically will be, say, ten times higher than a healthy person in their 20's who are just starting out, why should I only pay three times more for the insurance? I don't want to be subsidized by young people who are very likely struggling compared to me, based on being in their first decade of work. (I guess I'm crazy for not liking to be forced to screw others through the system, instead of trying to game the system (and to hell with everyone else). Silly me, pondering moral considerations.)

But with the ACA, if I don't want this, I have to break the law and pay an escalating fine each year AND I have to forego an ACA policy. I think these sorts of government distortion-by-fiat effects are really bad, but apparently doing this kind of thing is the only thing that makes the system work. Of course "poor" people (including many solid middle class people) will get rate subsidies, so I guess if folks my age are only screwing upper middle class young people, that's "okay". After all, I certainly pay my share come income tax season (and thanks to the ACA, I pay more income taxes).

In private insurance, cost reflects risk. Since the US can't seem to do better than have a totally fouled up system with gaping holes, huge deductibles, very small networks, etc., they may as well just go with socialized medicine. At least in England, all the citizens get medical care without having to deal with stuff like medicaid.

[Plantagenet]

Theres an even better way to "game" Obamacare then Cog is talking about.

An even bigger "loophole" in the ACA is that you don't have to sign up and pay premiums at all if you are healthy. You can pretty much skip paying premiums and just sign up when you get sick. There are now so many valid excuses for late signup that the smart thing to do is just skip signing up and paying monthly premiums….. You can avoid paying premiums for years---and then when you find out you are sick just go ahead and sign up the next day----even if you've never paid a single premium in your life you are still entitled to full coverage for surgery and hospitalization, etc. starting the same day you sign up.

Cheers!

[Outcast_Searcher]

An even bigger "loophole" in the ACA is that you don't have to sign up at all to get coverage. You can pretty much skip paying premiums and just sign up when you get sick. There are now so many valid excuses for late signup that the smart thing to do is just skip signing up and paying monthly premiums….. Wait until you find out you are sick and then sign up the next day----even if you've never paid a single premium in your life you are still entitled to full coverage starting the day you sign up.
Cheers!

Well, I hear you on that, but IMO, that's a mighty DANGEROUS game to play.

You're talking arbitrary government here. Can you be CONFIDENT they'll always let you do this -- or might they suddenly radically change the rules, enact some sort of mandatory retroactive penalty, etc?

And as I understand it, you there is generally a 90 day waiting period if you don't sign up during the normal annual window. So if you suddenly have a $300,000 life-saving brain surgery in there, oops, that's gotta hurt the old net worth figure. Oh, and what about emergencies? Get smashed up in a car, it's not like you can get signed up and accepted on the way to the hospital. Or you have an unexpected medical event at home.

Medicine isn't like any other product. You HAVE to have it when you really need it AND it's unbelievably expensive for anything serious.

I think before you start feeding people advice on skipping buying medical insurance policies, you should be very clear on the facts -- including worst case details.

Also, given your proclivity for bashing Obama generally as a hobby, I think folks should be wary of how objective your advice is on this. (This isn't personal. I'm not thrilled with much of Obama's performance either).

[Plantagenet]

And as I understand it, you there is generally a 90 day waiting period if you don't sign up during the normal annual window.

Nope.

You can sign up anytime if you report experiencing an approved "life event." AND there is a long list of life events that allow someone to sign up outside the usual enrollment periods. Once you have that "life event" you've got 60 days to sign up, even if its outside the usual enrollment period. For instance, if you tell them you couldn't get the website to work, then that is a qualifying event and you can sign up anytime.

qualifying-events-that-can-get-you-coverage-anytime

And once you sign up you are immediately covered. There is no 90 day waiting period.

I'm not advising anyone to wait to sign up until they are sick just to save tens of thousands of dollars in premium payments----but it turns out many people are doing just that. There's no sense putting your head in the sand and pretending this isn't happening.

Aetna, for example, said in a letter to the Obama administration that the ACA enrollment rules "leave individuals with little incentive to enroll in coverage during open enrollment, since they can wait until they are sick ... and drop coverage immediately after receiving services."

Cheers!

[Shaved Monkey]

In Australia public healthcare is 2% of what you earn,whether you earn nothing or millions.
If you have money and dont want to rub shoulders with the masses you get private health insurance but still pay 2%. minus your 30% rebate on private health insurance if your not too rich.
Your private health insurance may not cover all your costs on some procedures, so people may come out with a bill for being sick, but they did have a nicer waiting room.

[Shaved Monkey]

My dad went in for treatment a few months back in a private/public hospital he was in a single room, had musicians come in and play him songs,the place looked like a 5 star hotel had food halls and free internet cafes and art classes, it was free.

[Plantagenet]

My dad went in for treatment a few months back in a private/public hospital he was in a single room, had musicians come in and play him songs,the place looked like a 5 star hotel had food halls and free internet cafes and art classes, it was free.

Bernie Sanders is trying to give Americans the same kind of single payer healthcare you've got there in Australia. Unfortunately most Americans and even most Ds don't want single payer healthcare----they'd rather have Obamacare.

[Outcast_Searcher]

My dad went in for treatment a few months back in a private/public hospital he was in a single room, had musicians come in and play him songs,the place looked like a 5 star hotel had food halls and free internet cafes and art classes, it was free.

Bernie Sanders is trying to give Americans the same kind of single payer healthcare you've got there in Australia. Unfortunately most Americans and even most Ds don't want single payer healthcare----they'd rather have Obamacare.

Yeah, and Bernie says we can pay for that with little more than wishful thinking and FAR less money than Americans currently spend on healthcare overall. Of course, there are no meaningful details on how that is going to happen.

Currently, US healthcare costs over 99% as much more than THE ENTIRE FEDERAL INCOME TAX BASE in the US. (Federal 2014 tax receipts, about $3.05 trillion, 2014 US medical expenditures, about $3.0 trillion).

http://www.taxpolicycenter.org/taxfacts ... ?Docid=200
https://www.cms.gov/research-statistics ... lights.pdf

So by what magic do you propose the health care experience (re Shaved's example) for Americans be greatly improved for FAR less money?

And of course, when Bernie's promise is shown to be complete rubbish, I'm SURE he'll refund everyone's money, and restore the health of everyone who has an adverse event (including death) when the system falls apart from lack of funding.

(I'm all for the US health care system being better and cheaper, or just as good and much cheaper. I just don't expect hollow socialist purple unicorns to be able to deliver it any time soon.)

[Plantagenet]

So by what magic do you propose the health care experience (re Shaved's example) for Americans be greatly improved for FAR less money?

Australia isn't the magic kingdom of OZ. Its a real place that has a real health care system that works. Rather then dismissing the success in Australia as due to magic, why not see what they are doing right and then learn from their success?

-------------------------------------------------

[Outcast_Searcher]

So by what magic do you propose the health care experience (re Shaved's example) for Americans be greatly improved for FAR less money?

Australia isn't the magic kingdom of OZ. Its a real place that has a real health care system that works. Rather then dismissing the success in Australia as due to magic, why not see what they are doing right and then learn from their success?

-------------------------------------------------

I'm clearly asking this re US health care costs. Do you really expect Capitol Hill to follow the Aussie's example, when they ignored everything else while adopting Obamacare?

I'm not saying it's impossible. (See my earlier post on how great things are in a Thailand top fop for-profit competent hospital vs. the typical American experience). I'm asking how do you do that in the US, given the current "Assholes in Charge"?

Do you really expect the likes of, say, Orrin Hatch, to learn from the Aussie experience?

I'm NOT in charge. I'm just using the Socratic method, given the current reality.

[Plantagenet]

... re US health care costs. Do you really expect Capitol Hill to follow the Aussie's example, when they ignored everything else while adopting Obamacare?

I'm not saying it's impossible. (See my earlier post on how great things are in a Thailand top fop for-profit competent hospital vs. the typical American experience). I'm asking how do you do that in the US, given the current "Assholes in Charge"?

Good question.

Clearly the US missed a golden opportunity to put in a single payer system when we elected O in 2008. The Ds had total control of the Congress and many people thought O and the Ds would support single-payer, but instead O and the Ds turned out to be against single payer so we wound up with Obamacare.

Now O and Hillary are fighting AGAINST single payer to protect Obamacare. Its nuts!

With Bernie Sanders running we've got a candidate who really is in favor of single payer, and who won't flip flop once in office. Electing Bernie would be a big step towards getting single payer health insurance in the USA and reining in some of the healthcare madness in the USA.

[Plantagenet]

Here's a recent article in POLITICO about gaming Obamacare. Its becoming a major problem.

gaming-obamacare-insurance

Obamacare customers are gaming the system, buying coverage only after they find out they’re ill and need expensive care — a trend insurers warn is destabilizing the fledgling health law marketplaces and spiking premiums for everyone.
Insurers blame the problem on lax rules that allow more than 900,000 people to sign up for coverage outside the standard enrollment season — for instance, when they change jobs or move — without sufficient proof they are eligible..... the plans say they run up much higher medical bills and then jump ship, contributing to double-digit rate increases and financial losses.

Health plans also complain some customers are exploiting a three-month "grace period" — when they can keep getting subsidized coverage even if they’ve stopped paying their share of premiums.

Read more: http://www.politico.com/story/2016/01/g ... z43lZLVYB3

Hmmmm.....I didn't know about that last trick. I'd heard about people not buying Obamacare until they get sick, and I'd heard of people cancelling their coverage right after they got treated, but I hadn't heard about the 3 month grace period that keeps Ocare going even after you stop paying. So someone could get sick----pay one months premium ----and then cancel immediately and still get another three months of coverage for free for a total of four months of surgery and recovery or other medical treatments for the price of a one month Obamacare premium.

WOW---now THATS really gaming the O-care system.

[Outcast_Searcher]

Clearly the US missed a golden opportunity to put in a single payer system when we elected O in 2008. The Ds had total control of the Congress and many people thought O and the Ds would support single-payer, but instead O and the Ds turned out to be against single payer so we wound up with Obamacare.

Now O and Hillary are fighting AGAINST single payer to protect Obamacare. Its nuts!

You are exactly right as far as this part of your post.

I am amused at how the D's voted in Obamacare WITHOUT A SINGLE GOP VOTE, yet claimed it was the best they could do. Given that they supposedly supported single payer, why not just implement that, when they did it unilaterally (without a SINGLE GOP vote?)

Folks who believe that aren't using their brains.

[Outcast_Searcher]

With Bernie Sanders running we've got a candidate who really is in favor of single payer, and who won't flip flop once in office. Electing Bernie would be a big step towards getting single payer health insurance in the USA and reining in some of the healthcare madness in the USA.

You're uncritically assuming Bernie has the FIRST CLUE what he's talking about without any meaningful specifics (given his campaign web site). And of course that site has no actual contracts, or even legally binding statements, only empty promises. (To be fair, as ALL POTUS websites do).

Sorry. Given all the flagrantly broken Obama promises, I'm not willing to accept ANY campaign promises from liberal candidates without critical review of the finances.

Oh, and lest you assume I'm a conservative. I'm summarily rejecting the GOP candidates, because they're basically batsh*t crazy, and I can do 8th grade arithmetic.

[Shaved Monkey]

Yeah, and Bernie says we can pay for that with little more than wishful thinking and FAR less money than Americans currently spend on healthcare overall. Of course, there are no meaningful details on how that is going to happen.

Currently, US healthcare costs over 99% as much more than THE ENTIRE FEDERAL INCOME TAX BASE in the US. (Federal 2014 tax receipts, about $3.05 trillion, 2014 US medical expenditures, about $3.0 trillion).

http://www.taxpolicycenter.org/taxfacts ... ?Docid=200
https://www.cms.gov/research-statistics ... lights.pdf

So by what magic do you propose the health care experience (re Shaved's example) for Americans be greatly improved for FAR less money?

And of course, when Bernie's promise is shown to be complete rubbish, I'm SURE he'll refund everyone's money, and restore the health of everyone who has an adverse event (including death) when the system falls apart from lack of funding.

(I'm all for the US health care system being better and cheaper, or just as good and much cheaper. I just don't expect hollow socialist purple unicorns to be able to deliver it any time soon.)

Under the current systems
Australians spend less than $4,000 per person on their purple unicorn socialist system healthcare
US spends nearly $9,000 per person.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_c ... per_capita
Life expectancy for Australians is 83 years in the US its 79
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_c ... expectancy

[Outcast_Searcher]

Yeah, and Bernie says we can pay for that with little more than wishful thinking and FAR less money than Americans currently spend on healthcare overall. Of course, there are no meaningful details on how that is going to happen.

Currently, US healthcare costs over 99% as much more than THE ENTIRE FEDERAL INCOME TAX BASE in the US. (Federal 2014 tax receipts, about $3.05 trillion, 2014 US medical expenditures, about $3.0 trillion).

http://www.taxpolicycenter.org/taxfacts ... ?Docid=200
https://www.cms.gov/research-statistics ... lights.pdf

So by what magic do you propose the health care experience (re Shaved's example) for Americans be greatly improved for FAR less money?

And of course, when Bernie's promise is shown to be complete rubbish, I'm SURE he'll refund everyone's money, and restore the health of everyone who has an adverse event (including death) when the system falls apart from lack of funding.

(I'm all for the US health care system being better and cheaper, or just as good and much cheaper. I just don't expect hollow socialist purple unicorns to be able to deliver it any time soon.)

Under the current systems
Australians spend less than $4,000 per person on their purple unicorn socialist system healthcare
US spends nearly $9,000 per person.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_c ... per_capita
Life expectancy for Australians is 83 years in the US its 79
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_c ... expectancy

Fine. I hear similar figures cited repeatedly. So how, specifically, does one in the US go from the US to the cheapcost structure within the current system? Until you can give realistic answers to that question, copying and pasting links doesn't amount to much.

As a US citizen who is repulsed by how random and inaccurate the current Family Practice organization his doctor belongs to, it's not like I don't believe savings exist, BTW. But it's also not like I think the phalanx of lawyers between me and the powers that be will admit there is unreasonable inefficiency. And meanwhile, in the real world, I have to go to the doctor every six months to acquire the medications I need to survive in good health.

[SeaGypsy]

I pay my 1.5% medicare & .5% disability insurance in Oz since I was 15. I am 50 next year & have never needed surgery & have been to the GP Doctor about 10 times in 30 years- I am subsidizing a lot of unwell peeps & hypochondriacs.