[Tanada]

It makes far more sense to me, consistent with past and current practice, that Lutin would sacrifice a key asset to impress upon the West how far he was willing to go.

The gas ensured money for Russia and compliance from Germany
They are still running gas through the Ukraine
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles ... -gas-flows
This war is about bankrupting Russia the EU economy and Ukrainian life are just collateral damage.

Driving Russia into longer term sales contracts with China rather than the EU is far more harmful to the EU than it will ever be to Russia.

[Plantagenet]

Driving Russia into longer term sales contracts with China rather than the EU is far more harmful to the EU than it will ever be to Russia.

Exactly right.

Russia used to be somewhat antagonistic toward China....for a while there were even military skirmishes at times along the Chinese Russian border.

Now thanks to Biden blowing up the Nordstream pipeline, Russian is being firmly integrated into supplying energy to the great Chinese economic engine. Once Russia's energy production is all flowing to China, Russia will be locked into partnering with China for the foreseeable future.

And, in return, China is now saying they will start supplying Russia with arms and ammo for the Ukraine war.

A strategic Russia-China economic partnership and military alliance against the EU and the USA is the LAST thing the USA should want to see.


Joe Biden, in his typical blundering way, has now managed to drive Russia right into the arms of China.

SHEESH!!!!!

[Newfie]

Two dying cultures going down together. Chjna's demographics were worse than Russias, until the Ukraine war.

They both have enough power to do serious mischief on their way down so they remain a serious threat, for the next decade or so.

They have much in common, 2 strong man regiems who are isolating themselves from the world major economies. They are both headed to "hermit kingdom" status.

Russia's (not Putin's) best hope is that post Ukraine the West reaches out with a modern Marshall Plan to help stabilize the country and rebuild some stability.

That is not a prediction but a hope.

I don't know what is gonna happen to China, too big to bail out. Now India, that is interesting. But beyond my timeline.

[theluckycountry]

2 strong man regiems who are isolating themselves from the world major economies. They are both headed to "hermit kingdom" status..

Well it depends on your definition of major economies. If you mean those dominated by the US$ system, like the degenerate resource poor EU nations and japan, then you are correct, but if you think in terms of nations abundant in natural resources, well that's a different matter. The NWO? The US led nations want it to be them, but I think russia and china have other plans.

BRICS Expansion: Five New Members in 2023?
Following Russia's announcement of Iran & Argentina's BRICS membership bids, the alliance president reveals that Egypt, Saudi Arabia and Turkey, a NATO member, have the same plans
https://impakter.com/brics-expansion-fi ... s-in-2023/

That's going to be the lions share of the oil, minerals and food. It's no wonder the US invaded Iraq, they'd be totally out in the cold if they hadn't secured that oil supply.

In addition, Algeria, Bahrain, Bangladesh, Egypt, Indonesia, Iran, Mexico, Nigeria, Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, Sudan, Syria, Turkey, the UAE, Venezuela and Zimbabwe have expressed interest in membership of BRICS
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BRICS

Venezuela's 304 billion barrels of proved reserves just edges out Saudi Arabia's 298 billion barrels.

That's a lot of oil! Last time I checked the US wasn't in Venezuela's good books.

Meanwhile, in the White house

Story by Aaron Kliegman • Yesterday 8:34 AM
Biden spurns US energy producers, turns to Venezuela for millions of barrels of oil
President Biden is showing "outright hostility" to the U.S. oil industry by turning to foreign countries — including adversaries — to supply America's energy needs rather than domestic producers, according to experts and industry insiders.
'
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/bi ... r-AA17IZfK

Interesting years ahead Newfie

[theluckycountry]

2 Mar 2022
Russian President Vladimir Putin on Tuesday held a phone call to plan strategy with Venezuelan dictator Nicolás Maduro, one of Putin’s few outspoken supporters during Russia’s attack on Ukraine. The Kremlin said Maduro expressed “strong support” for Russia’s war effort during the call.
https://www.breitbart.com/national-secu ... ith-putin/

[Plantagenet]

2 Mar 2022
Russian President Vladimir Putin on Tuesday held a phone call to plan strategy with Venezuelan dictator Nicolás Maduro, one of Putin’s few outspoken supporters during Russia’s attack on Ukraine. The Kremlin said Maduro expressed “strong support” for Russia’s war effort during the call

Psychopathic and incompetent leftist dictators of a feather tend to flock together.

Cheers!

[Shaved Monkey]

It makes far more sense to me, consistent with past and current practice, that Lutin would sacrifice a key asset to impress upon the West how far he was willing to go.

The gas ensured money for Russia and compliance from Germany
They are still running gas through the Ukraine
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles ... -gas-flows
This war is about bankrupting Russia the EU economy and Ukrainian life are just collateral damage.

Driving Russia into longer term sales contracts with China rather than the EU is far more harmful to the EU than it will ever be to Russia.

Initially Russia planned the trans Afghanistan gas sales to India
That wasnt considered a good idea by the West either

[AdamB]

Psychopathic and incompetent leftist dictators of a feather tend to flock together.

Cheers!

No different from authoritarians.

[Plantagenet]

Psychopathic and incompetent leftist dictators of a feather tend to flock together.

Cheers!

No different from authoritarians.

Of course.

In fact, leftist dictators actually ARE authoritarians......some dictionaries even define "dictator" as an "authoritarian ruler."



Cheers!

[Newfie]

Some more info. Not conclusive but seems movement on investigation.

Does anyone else remember someone rescuing some out scubadivers at night a few weeks ago? They were not detained snd disappeared the next morning. I forget the country involved.

https://kyivindependent.com/news-feed/m ... to-ukraine

[Newfie]

This story seems to be growing with more sources adding to the confusion.

One source says it was a Ukranian owned yacht rented in Poland by 5 men and 1 women with fake passports.

Another source ia calling this a "ship".

It is frustrating because so much information should be instantly available that is not being divulged.

The size and nature of the "vessle."
Power or sail.
Crewed or operated by the renters.
Yacht ownership model. We're they absentee owners leasing through a brokerage? This is common practice.
Or did the Owners do the actual leasing.


ALL of this should be instantly available public knowledge.

The depth and location of the explosions require a fair degree of knowledge and equipment. The boat has to retrieve the divers when the come back up, which is often harder than it sounds. A six man crew on a rented boat sounds sketchy.

But if it was a crewed vessle then that is a whole nuther can of smelly fish.

Poor reporting.

[Newfie]

Roundup of current theories

https://www.politico.eu/article/vladimi ... -stream-2/

[Newfie]

I just spent way too much time following the Veran yacht there rabbit hole. Pri ate individuals have determined and verified the yacht which was searched and where chemically matched traces of the explosive were found.

However it is highly unlikely this particular yacht would have been the sole vessle employed in the event.

IMHO it's may have played a role, likely just in transporting people, it is not capable of carrying the equipment required. IF this yacht was involved at all it was likely just to transport and house some special operators, perhaps the divers and/or the head of the operation.

Don't know, just guessing. Our yacht is far more sea worthy than that tub.

People, including the news, are leaping far to far ahead in this story.

[Newfie]

Well guess what, Russia had a whole bunch of ships including a submarine support vessle and a mini-sub on site just before the explosions. And NATO and scandinavian countries knew about it.

https://www.t-online.de/nachrichten/deu ... racks.html

For a more exhaustive explanation with tons of information to back up the story check out Oliver Alexander on Sub Stack.

The proverbial smoking gun has been found, still smoking, in the hand of Putin.

[evilgenius]

If you want to talk resources, wither the world will go, then don't forget that this comes at the same time that renewables as a weapon are becoming a reality. People in places like the Pentagon probably first started thinking this way since it was discovered that the Caspian Sea region was going to be a bust for oil. Yes, the same people who also figured out that the West could win the Cold War by dropping the price of a barrel of oil down to $10, through agreement with the Saudis, and bankrupting the Soviets.

Russia is going after Ukraine's natural resources. At this point, they are probably no longer attempting to seize them as much as delay their development. That guarantees Russia's cornering the market for what remains of natural gas sales in the region over the next thirty years. After the war, they can resume at whatever pace. The sales will have to transit Ukraine. Obviously, things will have to change before that can happen. I've seen couples go at each other as individuals in ways that remind me of how the Russians and Ukrainians are going at each other, only to kiss and make up ten minutes later.

I think what Russia is really testing is whether they can maintain their current state of oligopolistic degeneracy, or if they will have to institute democratic reforms. Because they won't be able to afford the aftermath of the fall their country looks like it might take, if they don't escape keeping up trying to live in the Twentieth Century while the rest of the world moves on in the Twenty First!

They don't have any industrial automation to compete against modern factories. They are falling behind on grid modernization. They won't as easily be able to integrate electric transportation. Rail may be a more efficient way to transport goods, but it doesn't facilitate local culture like roads do. In that way too, that of capital outlay that forms binding infrastructure where people's ideas mingle, they suffer in comparison. In many ways, the Russians stand for country bumpkinism, really. They are saying that everybody needs to respect their antiquated ways, or else. And those ways they only cling to because those are the ways they understand. Putin is good at pushing those buttons. It makes you wonder if the country is simply not brave enough to step out from under the auspices of authoritarianism? They will be what they decide to be as a people, you know.

[Newfie]

Some interesting thoughts.

I agree that we really can not predict how things will evolve.

[Newfie]

Just to add some clarity to my above post,

Here is the main story.

https://www.t-online.de/nachrichten/deu ... sions.html

The back up information with technical derails if how the information was discovered, including extensive identification of sources appears on SubStack under Oliver Alexander. it is far, far too extensive to paste here

[Newfie]

Just to add some clarity to my above post,

Here is the main story.

https://www.t-online.de/nachrichten/deu ... sions.html

The back up information with technical derails if how the information was discovered, including extensive identification of sources appears on SubStack under Oliver Alexander. it is far, far too extensive to paste here

This above post provided new found and additional naval ship and aircraft activity around the site immediately prior to the explosions. There was additional activity in the previous week which has been disclosed in esrlier releases. In short there was much suspect ship activity in this immediate area for 2 weeks running with participation by a commercial tanker, Dutch, Swedish, German, and US surface ships concurrent with Russian ships including submarines and sub tenders, frigates, corvettes, tugs, and a communications/command ship. In total that provides significant circumstantial evidence for Russian actions being shadowed by NATO forces.

This following link explains Russia's motives.

https://cepa.org/article/nord-stream-de ... gerprints/

Then the previous link to Neil's Puck Anders video (on hybrid warfard) explains NATO'S motives to not expose Russia until they are ready. Basically identifying Russia as the aggressor would likely trigger them being classified as a terrorist state and then by law certain actions MUST be taken which would limit Western response flexibility.

[Plantagenet]

I can see an even stronger motive for Putin to blow up Russia's own pipeline.....once the pipeline was blown up Russian had to find new markets for their products.....and these turned out to be mostly in China.

My guess is that this was Putin's plan all along....

Look at the way things have gone over the last year. After years of trading with Europe Russia has spun on a dime. In just the last year Russia and China signing treaties and the Russian economy is now being quickly integrated into the Chinese economy.

The problem with a dictatorship like Russia is that a few bad decisions by the dictator can screw up the whole country. Well....Putin has made a few bad decisions. His decision to invade Ukraine was stupid, the way he did it was stupider, and his military strategy of the last year has been stupidest of all.

Perhaps Putin also made a stupid decision to cut all ties with the west after the attack on Kiev failed. Putin seems to have decided to turn his back on the west and to lock Russia into an alliance with China instead. What better way to "burn his bridges" with the west than for Putin to blow up the Nordstream pipelines?

Once Putin blew up the pipeline Russia had no choice to but to embrace China in a new anti-western alliance....which is what Putin seems to want now.


Putin has broken economic and political ties with Europe and embraced China. What better way to force the people of Russia to follow his lead than to blow up the pipelines that linked Russia to Europe?

Cheers!

[Newfie]

Did you see the story where immediately after leaving Putin Xi called a meeting with the ex-Soviet -stans, and excluded Russia?

This war is great for China, they get low cost gas and are able to expand their influence over the USSR carcass. Xi is eating Russias lunch. He has opened an influence front on Russia East flank and there is jack all Putin can do about it.

No clue how this will play out, but I have to believe Putin’s days are numbered.

I don’t think Xi will have him “removed”, Putin is doing too good a job for Xi, Xi wll want him to stay and weaken Russia even more.