[Outcast_Searcher]

But Planet, how can this be? Every gung-ho liberal will tell you over and over that only FOX News distorts things or gets involved in things to push their agenda. They will insist that the pure and wholesome folks at MSNBC would NEVER do such a thing -- that they are pure messengers of goodness, light, and even "Truth".

Frankly, with all of this kind of distortion getting reported from MANY supposedly "good and reliable" media sources -- when things really come apart -- we won't have reason to trust just about ANY media source.

Currently, "The Economist" seems to me to have reasonably balanced and accurate reporting, so far as I know. And I like that its perspective is not US-centered. Aside from them, I see far too many biases or chicanery not to be suspicious about virtually ANY controversial story.

edits -- corrected minor spelling and puncuation errors, and inserted the eye-roll that I originally intended to include.

[Outcast_Searcher]

Considering the fact that there are over a million concealed permits in Florida, it would be wise to assume that there is a distinct possibility that the Floridian you are interacting with is armed. Consequently it makes no sense to escalate an encounter to the point of violence. Never, never frighten someone; they may shoot you. Bottom line, be polite even if the other guy is an asshole.

This would seem to be common sense.

One example:

I drive a car until it is old and ugly. I dress casually. One night at the post office (outside), I noticed a woman's body language indicating (in my opinon) that she was afraid of me. All I could figure was it was because I looked (via car and clothes) poor -- as I never bother anyone, aside from offering to help if someone seems to clearly need it (like their car is broken down or they have fallen, etc).

Now, for a few seconds, I CONSIDERED trying to "help" the womon by telling her that displaying that type of body language was likely setting herself up for what she likely feared -- being hassled for money or even mugged. Then I considered things like KY's concealed carry permit and her possible reaction. So, I ignored her and walked well away from her when I passed her on the way into the post office (giving her no reason to, for example, shoot me in the back (or the face)).

Did I do the "right" thing? Christians may say no. My unshot-at head says yes.

[Outcast_Searcher]

I like to wear WalMart style hoodie sweatshirts and coats throughout the coldest 4 months of the year. They are durable, comfortable, warm, practical, and cheap -- all things I like in winter clothing.

Now will I have to run around in yuppie looking expensive clothing from Polo and L.L. Bean? Oh wait - that will make poor people want to mug me. Also, I'd rather give such money to charity or save it for my later years if needed.

Too bad we can't get beyond surface appearance when deciding how to deal with people -- surface appearance VERY OFTEN has very little do do with the actual substance/values/behavior of the person, in my experience.

For me, 99.9% of the time, I treat everyone with respect UNTIL they demonstrate I shouldn't.

If they act like jerks, or provocative -- I ignore them (thinking, I will **NOT** lower myself to this idiotic level of behavior).

In the tiny fraction of the time there is danger, then haste is more important than manners, even if seemingly disprepectful behavior like yelling (a warning - especially to a willful child), grabbing someone's hand to shove it under cold water to prevent a bad burn from becoming worse (i.e. first aid **IF** you know what you're doing), blow a horn at an inattentive motorist doing something stupid/risky, etc.

Those situations do arise, but not that often, at least to me.

[AgentR11]

Did I do the "right" thing? Christians may say no. My unshot-at head says yes.

This Christian says, "yes". Her body language indicated also, that she didn't want to poked. You didn't poke her. All good.

I actually get that exact thing a lot. I have very little reason to dress nice for anyone, at any time, consequently, I tend to wear tshirts and shorts, and get years of use out of them before finally making them into shop rags. This sometimes gets disturbed reactions from the suit&tie office brigade. Now if one of them was clearly in trouble and honestly needed assistance, that'd be one thing; but otherwise, I see no reason to add to their anxiety by initiating a conversation. After all, we draw about the same salary, but they pay twice my mortgage, ten times my fuel bill, and divine wisdom only knows what they spend on the vehicles themselves; if I were them, I'd spend most of my time freaked out too!

[AgentR11]

The guy was a street person, sitting in front of CVS. All I did was forcefully ask him to keep his distance (can't remember what I said exactly) -- this was AFTER I politely said I don't have any money and he kept coming.

Hindsight 20/20 and all... I think the mistake here is that you used words to attempt to get someone else to do what you wished them to do. While this does work well enough for peaceful, sane, responsible members of society; it doesn't do much good for nuts and thugs. In those cases, you can only control your own physical actions, and if you don't wish to engage forcefully, you can engage passively with an extreme annoyance factor. Avoiding your own car, walking back through the associated market, jogging in clear view of security cameras, walking very, very slowly, etc. They'll either give up, or physically engage in such a way that you can pretty much respond any way you feel best. Sometimes patience is required if you wish to avoid a confrontation. [I'm big on avoiding btw, victory is never having to engage]

I'm actually a very nice person,

Hate to say it, but if this b.s. goes south; being a nice guy may be hazardous to your survival, or to those whom you are obliged to defend.

[Outcast_Searcher]

After all, we draw about the same salary, but they pay twice my mortgage, ten times my fuel bill, and divine wisdom only knows what they spend on the vehicles themselves; if I were them, I'd spend most of my time freaked out too!

Good for you. If this sensible lifestyle lets you retire when you're (say) 50, then fantastic for you. Plus zero stress from worrying about your clothes/style.

Nice to know at least a few common-sense folks out there wouldn't automatically think badly of me for wearing a hoodie, or attire of that ilk.

[rangerone314]

I often shop up at the bank or post office on a Friday payday wearing torn jeans, boots and a plaid long sleeve shirt I wear outside, sometimes my boonie hat on if there is either light sprinkles or a lot of sunshine... often caked a bit with mud and/or compost from gardening. Often look like I got in a wrestling match with an alligator, especially if I was doing some like weeding the blackberry portion of the hedge.

I don't know if I scare people with that or anything. My car is probably more scary, at least the inside.

[Fiddlerdave]

Considering the fact that there are over a million concealed permits in Florida, it would be wise to assume that there is a distinct possibility that the Floridian you are interacting with is armed. Consequently it makes no sense to escalate an encounter to the point of violence. Never, never frighten someone; they may shoot you. Bottom line, be polite even if the other guy is an asshole.

This would seem to be common sense.

One example:

I drive a car until it is old and ugly. I dress casually. One night at the post office (outside), I noticed a woman's body language indicating (in my opinon) that she was afraid of me. All I could figure was it was because I looked (via car and clothes) poor -- as I never bother anyone, aside from offering to help if someone seems to clearly need it (like their car is broken down or they have fallen, etc).

Now, for a few seconds, I CONSIDERED trying to "help" the womon by telling her that displaying that type of body language was likely setting herself up for what she likely feared -- being hassled for money or even mugged. Then I considered things like KY's concealed carry permit and her possible reaction. So, I ignored her and walked well away from her when I passed her on the way into the post office (giving her no reason to, for example, shoot me in the back (or the face)).

Did I do the "right" thing? Christians may say no. My unshot-at head says yes.

While I grew up in the mountains of Colorado, I now live in Orange County, CA. The full beard I had from the age of 16 I could tell made some of the cool suburbanites in the OC get nervous, but I didn't really realize how much until I shaved beard and mustache off about 5 years ago.

Women clutched their purses less, suddenly businesses like CVS had "working" bathrooms if I ask for one, and in general the paranoia dropped incredibly!

How much I really didn't realize until I started growing it back last month (since I have a belly, I figure my white beard may as get me Santa Claus gigs), and after being a caucasian middle class "normal" American for a while, it is a culture shock to have a significant number of people subtly backing off at the sight of me.

Although, I am also noticing the nature and type of people who DON'T act schizy around me, and I think I have found myself another "filter" (aside from driving old, mechanically-superior cars) for allowing shallow people to self-select themselves AWAY from me!

The sad part of this is that the people I know who have been victimized generally were done-to by people who made a point to "look" just fine! Even carrying a Bible in one case. Having taken care of a dark-skinned teenager for a few years, I can tell that the kind of scrutiny a black kid gets is simply insane, and in many cases these kids are jailed for behavior that in white kids would not even bring a correction.

These 20/20 videos show it perfectly. While three white kids TRASH a car in a park, people can't bother to call the cops on THEM, but calls the cops on a couple black kids simply asleep in another car nearby.

But when they have black kids trash a car, people are all over it.

Part 1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PRLu_9h-2ks

Part 2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XSkeIdFdifY

[AgentR11]

If this sensible lifestyle lets you retire when you're (say) 50, then fantastic for you.

retire?
There's plenty of time to "retire" in the grave.

[JohnRM]

I'm all for CCW and no retreat at home but encouraging shootouts in public seems kind of a step backwards to me.

That's where I am too. In your home is unambiguous. There still will be mistakes made like the repair guy that your spouse called or your daughter sneaking her boyfriend in getting shot, but at least people can be aware that if they are in a house they are at risk. A law that allows a predator to persue and confront someone in any location and then shoot them and make up some claim of self defense is more wild than the wild west.

Sounds like people need to be respectful and not sneak in to have sex with other people's daughters, in the middle of the night. If you do, you're probably going to get shot. Surprise?! As for service techs...I seriously doubt that circumstances will arise so regularly where a husband and wife don't communicate and an armed spouse arrives home to find a man dressed like a tech in their home alone and decides to shoot them on sight because we all know that crazy murderers drive tech vans and break into your house to fix your dryer before they kill you and eat you. Happens all of the time.

[Sixstrings]

Two black teens carjack a man near Sanford, drag him out of his vehicle and beat him with a hammer, put him in ICU:

Two arrested in brutal hammer beating in Seminole

A tip to Crimeline has led to the arrests of two men in a brutal beating that occurred a week ago in the Midway community east of Sanford.

Julius Ricardo Bender, 18, and Yahaziel Isaac Israel, 19, face charges of attempted first-degree murder, burglary with assault or battery and armed burglary.

The victim, a 50-year-old Winter Springs man whose name has not been released, is on life-support at Orlando Regional Medical Center.

Deputies were called to the area of Lincoln Street and Beardall Avenue about 6:30 p.m. March 26 to investigate a report of a man being beaten, Seminole County Sheriff's spokeswoman Heather Smith said.

They found the victim in the woods on the north side of Lincoln Street.

According to arrest affidavits:

A witness told deputies he heard someone screaming for help and saw two men pull the victim from his vehicle. He said he watched as one man held the victim and the other beat him in the head with a hammer.

After they dragged the victim into the woods, the men drove away in his sport utility vehicle, which was later found abandoned about a half-mile away on Garbo Jack Lane.
http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/2012-04-02/news/os-two-arrested-seminole-beating-20120402_1_victim-arrest-affidavits-crimeline

^^ THIS is why I'm paranoid about car jacking / mugging. Because it happens. I don't let shady people get near my vehicle, if my spidey sense starts panicking I pull out, back out, whatever just get away. I'd rather take my chances with a slightly risky merge into traffic than getting carjacked. (no lectures please, I'm a good driver no at-fault accidents in 20 years)

I hate to post this article by the way, it's on Drudge and of course Drudge has an angle. But people getting scared by violent crime is worth talking about too, it's part of the overall issue. Far as I know, random violent crime is down more every year, but when you read about it, yikes it's always brutal. If suburbanites are scared witless and being overly aggressive on neighborhood watches, then the underlying crime problem that's creating this climate of paranoia must be addressed.

Regarding Zimmerman, who really knows the truth. It will have to go to a jury. He did have a gash on his head. My common sense hunch is, Zimmerman never intended to do violence on Trayvon. He probably meant to just not lose track of him until cops arrived, but then Trayvon confronted him. At that point there was a physical fight, and then a gun shot, who threw the first punch and whether Zimmerman used reasonable force, a jury has to decide.

The screaming on the tapes sounds like a kid though, and software analysis confirms the vocal range doesn't fit a 30 year old man. It's all murky, what really happened here. One thing is for sure -- if citizens feel they have to take patrolling the streets into their own hands, then you're going to have more fights out in public and more shootouts. On the other hand -- in all these cases there are witnesses watching from their windows. We don't have communities anymore, just gated communities. IF all these witnesses came out of their houses to at least yell and holler, maybe that would make a difference. But then nobody wants to take a risk, so victims get beat right in the street with everyone watching from pulled blinds.

Complicated mess, over all, damned if you do damned if you don't.

[Sixstrings]

According to various other sources, the victim is white, and the Orlando Sentinel has a policy of not mentioning race regarding to crime:

UPDATE: We have confirmed that the victim is white. A CofCC.org reader received an e-mail reply from the Orlando Sentinel admitting that the race of the victim was censored on purpose, and that it is the policy of the newspaper to censor race. Also, shortly after CofCC.org wrote about this crime, the Orlando Sentinel removed the perpetrators’ mug shots from their online article. The Orlando Sentinel censored the race of the perpetrators in a previous article, even though they were still at large when it was published.
http://ncrenegade.com/civil-unrest/where-is-the-outcry-white-man-on-life-support-after-hammer-attack-by-two-black-teens-near-sanford-fl/

And this is where we get into murky waters. Black folks had a right to know Trayvon's race, and therefore white folks have a right to know the races involved with crime -- just so you can really know what's going on in your town, reading the newspaper.

Objectively, it's not fair to emphasize Trayvon's race yet not report the race of white victims.

[jedrider]

As far as race is concerned, I think it is much better for police to ask for identifying features. If Black, Hispanic, or Caucasian is an identifying feature, then that is fine. If they were white and wearing gang jackets, then that would be an identifying feature. That makes much more sense.

There's this report that Zimmerman has a domestic violence injunction against him already and, supposedly, by law one is not allowed to carry or possess a firearm at that point, which, I presume makes it a felony if he did. Of course, gun control opponents get all hissy over this as we have two sets of laws, one restricting gun ownership and one advocating gun ownership, putting them on opposite sides, probably politically, too.

So, if 'stand your ground' (I call it the 'make my day' law, though) doesn't apply to this case, then this opens the floodgate of civil suits as well. Is this why they are taking so long to decide what to do?

[Cog]

Stand your ground is irrelevant to this shooting. The only thing that matters is if Zimmerman believed that he was in danger of great bodily harm or death due to the beating that he was receiving from Martin. (If that occurred the way Zimmerman described it)

[jedrider]

Stand your ground is irrelevant to this shooting. The only thing that matters is if Zimmerman believed that he was in danger of great bodily harm or death due to the beating that he was receiving from Martin. (If that occurred the way Zimmerman described it)

I don't think so -- I am not a law afficionado, so others will know far more than I. That is certainly the way the media is making it out to be. The media says a lot of things I don't pay much attention to however. I always thought there was some responsibility to be had in wielding deadly weapons, so I could be wrong. If that's the case, this will be a great boon to the gun industry, as who would want to just be limited to fists when you can have a gun to back one up.

Anyway, the FBI is investigating this case as a Hate crime. That will be interesting. They are analyzing every call Zimmerman made to 911.

[Roy]

If you're sitting on top of me, bashing my head against the ground, I'm going to shoot you and kill you. If you don't die with the first round, I will continue to discharge my weapon until you do. I don't give a fuck. It would be a righteous shoot and I, like Zimmerman would not be breaking any law or subject to any prosecution. The fact that the police on scene and the EMTs on scene saw the evidence and discerned that it was consistent with Zimmerman's account of the events speaks volumes about what happened.

But but Trayvon is a nice 11 year old kid the MSM says. Oh wait a minute, was his Twitter handle really "No_Limit_Nigga"? Was this dude a racist himself? I contend that anybody who uses a slur like that as their handle is racist as hell. Anybody who uses that vile word in conversation is racist.

Here;s some of Trayvon's brethren in Baton Rouge Louisiana: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e52-Vx5PMCQ. Think Obama's sons...

These are some nice young men, upstanding, contributing to society, paying taxes, being responsible fathers, being good role models for their children, providing for and protecting their communities, just like all of us should aspire to do. (/sarc) Why wouldn't you want to live near a large concentration of such nice and upstanding people?

The MSM has totally mis-represented the facts in this case, the pols jumped in before all the facts were known, and now we have a bunch of people who don't even know the facts, protesting against a man protecting his right to life and liberty.

If you're sitting on top of me, bashing my head against the ground, I'm going to shoot you and kill you. I don't give a fuck if you're black, white, brown, red, yellow, or purple with pink polka dots.

That's my right as an American, to defend my right to life and liberty. And if someone is sitting on top of me and banging my head on the ground, they're attempting to deprive me of liberty and possibly life.

That's the issue being overlooked by the MSM and the politicians who've inserted themselves into this story.

Has the MSM picked up on the brutal murder in Sanford of the white guy by two young black teens noted above? What about that guy's rights? Were the black kids racist? did they pick him out BECAUSE he was white? Because he was 50 (ageist)? Or because they're sociopaths? Or all of the above?

[Fiddlerdave]

If you're sitting on top of me, bashing my head against the ground, I'm going to shoot you and kill you. If you don't die with the first round, I will continue to discharge my weapon until you do. I don't give a fuck. It would be a righteous shoot and I, like Zimmerman would not be breaking any law or subject to any prosecution.....

Even if YOU had inspired the fear in assailant by stalking him like a predator?

Its hilarious how so many look at this from their biased (often racially) POV rather than a sensible one

Travon is the one with a "Stand Your Ground" Right to immobilize his stalker, and when Travon saw the gun, had a right to KILL Zimmerman, and certainly to beat him unconscious to end the obvious threat from this predator who Travon could quite reasonably assume was going to abduct, probably rape him like ALL whites like to do, and then dump Travon's body in a swamp somewhere!

[Cog]

"Stand your ground" does not give you the right to beat someone unconscious because they are following you around. You need to read the Florida statute. Unless Zimmerman brandished a weapon or swung the first blow at Martin, then it was a righteous shoot.

[rangerone314]

Sometimes I wonder if certain people aren't just waiting in the wings for some random black person to do something stupid and get killed, so that they can celebrate "Grab a Free TV day".

[Cloud9]

Last Friday night 14 people were shot at a funeral in Miami. Two black men died. One had a six day old child. Of the twelve survivors that were shot, one is a five year old little black girl. The shooting took place on what should have been holy ground at a wake no less. If you are not as equally outraged by this shooting as the shooting in Sanford then you might be a racist.