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Greta Thunberg's Voyage Pt. 2

Re: Greta Thunberg's Voyage Pt. 2

Unread postby EnergyUnlimited » Wed 06 Nov 2019, 16:32:39

aspera wrote:
EnergyUnlimited wrote:... Greta and her generation of snowflakes ...

OK, Boomer: Is calling them snowflakes an example of laughing at them, or fighting them?

"Snowflakes" is not meant to fight or to laugh.
It is description of them.
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Re: Greta Thunberg's Voyage Pt. 2

Unread postby aspera » Wed 06 Nov 2019, 17:27:52

EnergyUnlimited wrote:"Snowflakes" is not meant to fight or to laugh. It is description of them.

Strange then that dictionary.com has the term meaning an insult, "Snowflake ... is a political insult for someone who is perceived as too sensitive, often used for millennials and liberals."

I can understand their being sensitive; the world we're handing over to them is stressed to its limits and beyond. In fact, shouldn't we be more worried if they were laissez faire given the facts?

And I'm not sure that sensitivity and engagement are mutually exclusive. After all, they don't seem indecisive to me; they are pretty clear about what they want. And some have gone to considerable effort to make their point. Check out this 25-year-old politician: https://www.cnn.com/2019/11/06/asia/new ... index.html

And spoiled is defined as: "harmed in character by being treated too leniently or indulgently." Seems like that's a better definition of us boomers. Probably the result of the gift/curse of massive amounts of surplus energy.
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Re: Greta Thunberg's Voyage Pt. 2

Unread postby Newfie » Wed 06 Nov 2019, 17:30:42

EnergyUnlimited wrote:
Ibon wrote:Greta and her peers will be the first generation to do something concrete about climate change and the first generation to experience some of the more painful consequences.

Of course Greta and her peers have to move from the symbolism of riding carbon free ships to the actual structural changes both physically and socially to greatly reduce humanity's carbon footprint.

The pathway from symbolism to concrete lifestyle changes will be challenging to say the least.

You want to know the purest definition of obsolescence and calcified cynicism? All of us older baby boomers, mostly men, who disparage Greta and disparage the symbolism of what she represents!

Banksters are doing far more efficient job in transitioning economy to low carbon footprint and bringing population to sustainable carrying capacity then Greta and her generation of snowflakes could possibly dream about.
By immense greed they are facilitating exploitation of available non renovable resources, causing evertything around to be consumed and wasted and they are the most efficient agents of ruin and chaos which humanity ever faced in its history.
They are working very hard to destroy global economy as it stands, they are very close to a total success with it and they have taken all possible steps to ensure that this destruction will be non reversible in coming thousands of years if not for much longer.
Greta and all the snowflakes taken together stands not a slightest chance to achieve even a fraction of percent of what banksters are about to deliver.

However banksters have a one final trick in their sleeve:
Once they have delivered all the ruin and chaos which is about to come and peoples are bashing them up for it, they will shrug their shoulders and say "blame Greta".


Eu,

That’s a really insightful post.
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Re: Greta Thunberg's Voyage Pt. 2

Unread postby mousepad » Wed 06 Nov 2019, 17:45:35

rockdoc123 wrote:Companies have been improving environmental reclamation and safety issues continuously for decades. Rather than fantasizing about what is happening you might actually educate yourself regarding the facts.


So what you're saying is that environmental and safety has so much room for improvement that even after decades of improving, we can still do better?

Look at the violation tracker of BP.
https://violationtracker.goodjobsfirst.org/parent/bp

There are gems like this in there, if you dig through all the violations:
"violated the False Claims Act by knowingly underpaying royalties owed on natural gas produced from federal and Indian leases"

And those are the violations occurring in the West, which have at least some sort of rules and capability of enforcement.
Do you think BP does not violate the environment and does follow stringent western worker safety rules when operating in the jungles of africa?

rockdoc, when did you become a corporate lackey and a worshiper of money?
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Re: Greta Thunberg's Voyage Pt. 2

Unread postby rockdoc123 » Wed 06 Nov 2019, 17:54:23

"violated the False Claims Act by knowingly underpaying royalties owed on natural gas produced from federal and Indian leases"


nothing to do with environmental and safety which was what the discussion was about.
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Re: Greta Thunberg's Voyage Pt. 2

Unread postby mousepad » Wed 06 Nov 2019, 17:55:24

rockdoc123 wrote: contractually obligated to pay salaries to Nationals that are commensurate with the salary base in the country


Of course. Nobody disputes that. We did talk about buying a product from China, made with Chinese labor, payed at a Chinese rate, as opposed to buying the same product from the US, made by US labor, payed US wages, with mandated US benefits. We did not talk about short-changing an african in the jungle by not paying him standard african wages.

I'm a bit concerned, rock. I'm a bit concerned because you don't understand much, yet you claim to be in a leadership position at a big company.

And that, quite frankly, concerns me. Could it be that you have been promoted beyond your natural ability of janitor to a position that you cannot handle anymore. It almost looks like that.
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Re: Greta Thunberg's Voyage Pt. 2

Unread postby mousepad » Wed 06 Nov 2019, 17:57:31

rockdoc123 wrote:
"violated the False Claims Act by knowingly underpaying royalties owed on natural gas produced from federal and Indian leases"


nothing to do with environmental and safety which was what the discussion was about.


That's correct. That's why I picked it and said "gem". A standing out item, something different from all others.

Environmental violations were 135. Scroll down and find them, you can't miss them. It's many of them. 135 in total. A lot.
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Re: Greta Thunberg's Voyage Pt. 2

Unread postby Newfie » Wed 06 Nov 2019, 18:37:26

Re: EU’s use of the word “snowflake.”

Perhaps “snowflake” is a derogatory term, I think it’s mostly descriptive of folks who can not face the rigors of insightful thought on serious questions. But can also apply to folks who are quickly overwhelmed by life’s travails. Folks who need “safe” spaces because normal daily life is too much. Folks who need trigger warnings.

One of my hero’s was Bob Bartlett. I’d be surprised if anyone here knew of the gentleman. He was of the opinion that most folks have little idea of how much a human can take, what condition they can survive under, because they have never experienced those conditions. He would send his men on patrol across the ice with some minor mission simply to give them increasing levels of experience, so that they could learn about themselves, find their limits, their inner strength.

Our high caloric life style means that few of us are ever truly uncomfortable. Our trials are about limiting our addictions to food, smoke, drink, and drugs. More and more of our “middle class” have no idea of what it means to ever be cold, hungry, physically exhausted with work.

I look at my kids and their compatriots and they have led truly blessed lives. None of them have had to do really rough physical labor, especially in a competitive field, such as roofing where you get paid by the square. Straight money for product. Does anyone here have a younger family member who has picked fruits, for hoed a lot? How about working construction; raising walls, laying blocks, where you get paid by the unit? Worked on a fishing vessel where your pay is a percentage of the after expenses profit? Or a factory where you got paid by the piece? Or a coal mine where you were paid by the ton of coal that made it to the surface.

Not very long ago these jobs were “good” jobs. And having physically and emotionally demanding jobs like that changes you, changes your attitude. Makes one harder and coarser perhaps less tolerant. It’s not hard to see how.

And then you look at the modern generations with mountains of college debt for a worthless degree. Had drinks the other day with a retired middle school teacher. He cane from a medium size city and noted that the district had gotten rid of all shops. Every kid was supposed to be on a college prep track. His take was they were really preparing these kids to meet the modern work market, McDonalds.

How far have we come when our schools no longer teach vocational courses? Is it any wonder the college course have been degraded? The kids have the idea that physical work is beneath them, almost like a caste system. That it’s a terrible thing to get sweaty in the prosecution if your profession.

So I can see where the name “snowflake” comes from. They melt at the first opportunity. They have been lied to about now to approach adult life.. They have been “snowed” into taking additional education that does not result in a job. And to someone like be they also seem pretty flaky, not well centered.

So snowflake. Yeah, about right.
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Re: Greta Thunberg's Voyage Pt. 2

Unread postby rockdoc123 » Wed 06 Nov 2019, 18:57:20

Environmental violations were 135. Scroll down and find them, you can't miss them. It's many of them. 135 in total. A lo


did you even bother to read any of them? More than 90% of the fined amounts relate to the Macondo disaster. That has been studied over the past 7 years in some detail and it was found to have nothing to do with the rules and guidelines that were in place for offshore operations but rather interference on the operation by management. And please don't start to revist that incident, do a search and you can find all the info you need here and on the OilDrum archives.

But once again you were babbling on and on about all the horrible oil companies reeking havoc environmentally around the world (not in North America). Doesn't happen. There are hundreds of thousands of wells drilled each year, tens of billions of barrels of oil produced and transported and the number of incidents are quite few and far between.

take this somewhere else, it is completely off topic and frankly dumb.
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Re: Greta Thunberg's Voyage Pt. 2

Unread postby aspera » Wed 06 Nov 2019, 19:14:19

Newfie wrote:So snowflake. Yeah, about right.

No, it's not. EU applied the term to Greta. Given what she has demonstrated (e.g., 2 weeks sailing in a craft not built for comfort of any kind, speaking to an international political body) the word IS an insult.

That young woman may make old boomers uncomfortable, but it's an odd response to claim that she is "flaky" or "not well centered."

We should be supporting every one of these people. Not finding ways to diminish them.
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Re: Greta Thunberg's Voyage Pt. 2

Unread postby Ibon » Wed 06 Nov 2019, 19:19:03

aspera wrote:
And spoiled is defined as: "harmed in character by being treated too leniently or indulgently." Seems like that's a better definition of us boomers. Probably the result of the gift/curse of massive amounts of surplus energy.


Excellent point.... the accusation of the young generation being snowflakes is pure projection.
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Re: Greta Thunberg's Voyage Pt. 2

Unread postby Ibon » Wed 06 Nov 2019, 19:21:51

aspera wrote:
EnergyUnlimited wrote:... Greta and her generation of snowflakes ...

OK, Boomer: Is calling them snowflakes an example of laughing at them, or fighting them?

Your argument, that the bankers will bring on a reset before others, could have been made without disparaging those others who are trying to do the same thing.

.


Well, what about the possible ways Greta's generation, when they assume power in their 40's might very well be the first generation to confront the inherent inequities.

Hmmmmm should we remind ourselves which generation has been complicit in allowing the banks to have this inordinate power in the first place?
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Re: Greta Thunberg's Voyage Pt. 2

Unread postby Ibon » Wed 06 Nov 2019, 19:24:04

aspera wrote:
Newfie wrote:So snowflake. Yeah, about right.

No, it's not. EU applied the term to Greta. Given what she has demonstrated (e.g., 2 weeks sailing in a craft not built for comfort of any kind, speaking to an international political body) the word IS an insult.

That young woman may make old boomers uncomfortable, but it's an odd response to claim that she is "flaky" or "not well centered."

We should be supporting every one of these people. Not finding ways to diminish them.


I have a slightly different take. I think the boomers should continue to be as cynical as they are, as critical and disparaging as they are toward the young generation. They should display fully their incapacity and cynicism.... this acts as fuel to Greta's generation..... not fossil fuel but change fuel.......
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Re: Greta Thunberg's Voyage Pt. 2

Unread postby Cog » Thu 07 Nov 2019, 02:12:30

Greta has been well indoctrinated by her Antifa parents to display outage on command. Like a trained seal but less humorous to watch. Exploiting the mentally challenged for your amusement used to be frowned upon. But I guess the hard left values children differently.
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Re: Greta Thunberg's Voyage Pt. 2

Unread postby EnergyUnlimited » Thu 07 Nov 2019, 03:33:19

aspera wrote:
Newfie wrote:So snowflake. Yeah, about right.

No, it's not. EU applied the term to Greta. Given what she has demonstrated (e.g., 2 weeks sailing in a craft not built for comfort of any kind, speaking to an international political body) the word IS an insult.

2 weeks of sailing in a craft not built for any comfort is the most pleasurable experience kid can get.
Making a statement to an audience is more challenging though.
Still a good tradeoff - 2 weeks of pleasure for making a statement.

That young woman may make old boomers uncomfortable, but it's an odd response to claim that she is "flaky" or "not well centered."

Nope. She does not make me uncomfortable.
She may talk what she wants but her generation of snowflakes will still achieve nothing above boring single task or paper shuffling jobs in ailing corporate environment.
They are perfect material for outright exploitation and exploited they shall be.
Weak, indecisive, demoralized and of no clear goals for the future. The only ambition is to excell in some computer game which will go obsolete within few years anyway.
Don't worry. Brown people will replace them... and they won't make a peep.

We should be supporting every one of these people. Not finding ways to diminish them.

Nope.
Thank you. I won't support snowflake culture with associated degeneracy.
Here is about all they can achieve:
https://www.bitchute.com/video/gK_0Yo-0r08/
https://www.bitchute.com/video/_9Mbh0PsVw4/
https://www.bitchute.com/video/WgheGP_RZGQ/
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Re: Greta Thunberg's Voyage Pt. 2

Unread postby Newfie » Thu 07 Nov 2019, 05:41:59

“Snowflake” is t a generational approbation, or should not be. It’s about being so tender and easily won red that you use those weakness’ to claim special cultural position.

snowflakes can’t participate in the future decisions because those decisions will cause them irreversible psychological harm. So they need to be set aside in safe places surrounded by anti-trigger fields.

I apologize if the above comes across as sarcastic, it’s not meant to be. It’s to clarify my previous statements which seem to have been completely miss- interpreted.

I don’t know enough about Greta to say about her. I’ve seen plenty of snowflakes, of all generations.

They used to be called “prima Donna.”
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Re: Greta Thunberg's Voyage Pt. 2

Unread postby careinke » Thu 07 Nov 2019, 06:04:08

Newfie wrote:Re: EU’s use of the word “snowflake.”

Perhaps “snowflake” is a derogatory term, I think it’s mostly descriptive of folks who can not face the rigors of insightful thought on serious questions. But can also apply to folks who are quickly overwhelmed by life’s travails. Folks who need “safe” spaces because normal daily life is too much. Folks who need trigger warnings.

One of my hero’s was Bob Bartlett. I’d be surprised if anyone here knew of the gentleman. He was of the opinion that most folks have little idea of how much a human can take, what condition they can survive under, because they have never experienced those conditions. He would send his men on patrol across the ice with some minor mission simply to give them increasing levels of experience, so that they could learn about themselves, find their limits, their inner strength.

Our high caloric life style means that few of us are ever truly uncomfortable. Our trials are about limiting our addictions to food, smoke, drink, and drugs. More and more of our “middle class” have no idea of what it means to ever be cold, hungry, physically exhausted with work.

I look at my kids and their compatriots and they have led truly blessed lives. None of them have had to do really rough physical labor, especially in a competitive field, such as roofing where you get paid by the square. Straight money for product. Does anyone here have a younger family member who has picked fruits, for hoed a lot? How about working construction; raising walls, laying blocks, where you get paid by the unit? Worked on a fishing vessel where your pay is a percentage of the after expenses profit? Or a factory where you got paid by the piece? Or a coal mine where you were paid by the ton of coal that made it to the surface.

Not very long ago these jobs were “good” jobs. And having physically and emotionally demanding jobs like that changes you, changes your attitude. Makes one harder and coarser perhaps less tolerant. It’s not hard to see how.

And then you look at the modern generations with mountains of college debt for a worthless degree. Had drinks the other day with a retired middle school teacher. He cane from a medium size city and noted that the district had gotten rid of all shops. Every kid was supposed to be on a college prep track. His take was they were really preparing these kids to meet the modern work market, McDonalds.

How far have we come when our schools no longer teach vocational courses? Is it any wonder the college course have been degraded? The kids have the idea that physical work is beneath them, almost like a caste system. That it’s a terrible thing to get sweaty in the prosecution if your profession.

So I can see where the name “snowflake” comes from. They melt at the first opportunity. They have been lied to about now to approach adult life.. They have been “snowed” into taking additional education that does not result in a job. And to someone like be they also seem pretty flaky, not well centered.

So snowflake. Yeah, about right.


Wow,

Both my boys are millennials, (1980, 1985), and are nothing like you describe. Although they both went to an excellent boarding school in Switzerland, neither chose to go to college.

My oldest basically bummed around for ten years, and learned to live with very little cash. He now works at the Naval Shipyard, makes a pretty good wage as a general laborer for the first year. Then they can go into specialties like electrician, machinist, wielder etc. I told him they family could use any of those skills. He has no debt, and is in pretty good shape.

My youngest is a cement mason working a Union Job. Plus he and his wife have also just started their own business (Sound Residential Construction). Being a cement mason is just about the physically hardest job out there, with maybe the exception of a sheetrock worker, (Never arm wrestle with these guys, you'll lose).

My DIL is very good with money, and abhors debt. She was also an office manager for a dentist office, so she good with the books. Plus, she is in great shape and goes out on jobs with my son. She can easily outwork me. She loves to cook, garden, and raise our two beautiful granddaughters.

So besides the mortgage on their place (a 2 /12 acre homestead). They are debt free. They have an excavator, half a dump truck, a dump trailer, a very nice 2008 diesel pickup, cement forms, all his tools, generators, sump pumps, compactor, storage container etc for the business, all paid for.

I feel confident they will be successful enough in their new business, that he will "retire" from his union job soon in order to work his own business full time. The pay is much better when you own the company.

My sons friends follow much the same mold, independent, hard working, little or no debt, with a LOT of useful life skills. They like to hunt and fish, forage for mushrooms and other wild foods. They know things are going to get crazy, they don't trust banks or government, but they find ways to adapt.

I actually have a lot of hope for the more rural millennials. You know, those deplorables...
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Re: Greta Thunberg's Voyage Pt. 2

Unread postby EnergyUnlimited » Thu 07 Nov 2019, 08:54:37

careinke wrote:Both my boys are millennials, (1980, 1985), and are nothing like you describe. Although they both went to an excellent boarding school in Switzerland, neither chose to go to college.
...
I actually have a lot of hope for the more rural millennials. You know, those deplorables...

I have also two millenials who are apparently against all the odds successful at the moment at least.
Older one is 25 and is educated to "forestry engineer" level, strarts career in forestry, gave him a nice property which I have inherited myself, so he is a debt free man who will need bankers money for nothing and his prospects are bright.

Younger one who is 22 is pursuing career of moneyman, screwed thousands of his peers on international crypto exchanges as a freelancing day trader during bitcoin bubble and made sufficient money within short time that head hunters of recognizable banksters want to make him "their man" and beautiful women already are lining up.
But I have to be very watchful, so he will not turn into money spoiled degenerado as there are certain worrying traits in his character. Definitely far too much money for his young age at the moment.

But, we peakers are a sort of elites. We can ask and contemplate questions which are putting us intellectually into top 1-3%.
Materially overwhelming majority of us are at least top 20%-ers and more likely top 5%-ers wherever we live.
So we are *not* a representative sample and from perspective of our kids future is bright indeed, as long as CC or atomic war doesn't spoil it.

Even Toecutter who complains how exploited he is has higher education in prospective field, no debt, home to live, with mom but still, more spare money than his peers and enough of spare money to indulge in hobbies like private construction of high range, state of the art EV.
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Re: Greta Thunberg's Voyage Pt. 2

Unread postby Ibon » Thu 07 Nov 2019, 11:30:54

Like Careinke's our two daughters are not snowflakes and could kick any of your asses. They are 25 and 27 years old and not afraid of hard work.

I want you guys to all remember what happens to young kids in their very first years of adolescence. They become belligerent, super sensitive, opinionated, intolerant, sleep alot etc. etc. This is the caricature of the snowflake personality some of you are describing.

At most what I can say is that the current generation might be extending this adolescent attitude a few more years than the previous generation but otherwise there is no basis for all you burnt out baby boomers claiming snowflake status on millennials.

They will mature well and most likely put us to shame, mostly because external constraints will start forcing them to make hard choices but also because they will be inspired by the total cynicism and ineptitude of baby boomers who failed to deal with important issues. They will be driven to do better and not be so indolent as we have been.
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Re: Greta Thunberg's Voyage Pt. 2

Unread postby Newfie » Thu 07 Nov 2019, 11:38:39

Carineke,

Good for you that your kids are as they are. But that does not mean ALL kids are like that.

Nor are all adults tough pragmatists. I know plenty of adult snowflakes.

But snowflakes DO exist.

And the trend is moving toward more youngsters being snowflakes.
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