[Subjectivist]

Based on this PDF, http://pubs.aic.ca/doi/pdf/10.4141/cjss88-011
Soybeans in a three year study with four different types of soil tested penetrated less than a meter every year of the testing program.

[careinke]

Based on this PDF, http://pubs.aic.ca/doi/pdf/10.4141/cjss88-011
Soybeans in a three year study with four different types of soil tested penetrated less than a meter every year of the testing program.

How about comfrey. Got any figures?

This says 8-10 feet.
http://www.coescomfrey.com/grow.html

This seller also claims 8-10 feet.

http://nantahala-farm.com/comfrey-growing2-s.shtml

Plants for a Future just says deep roots, but has a lot of other info.

http://www.pfaf.org/user/Plant.aspx?LatinName=symphytum+officinale

[Tanada]

I never heard of Comfrey before this thread that I can recall, but I know from growing up that Alfalfa will put roots down as much as 30 feet and if you want to rotate crops it is not easy to kill because it will come back up from the root twice after you kill it.

[Shaved Monkey]

or a phosphate factory
Dovecote
Free meat no feeding required and phosphate they go out all day and feed themselves fly home and poop phosphate and the taste delicious and breed like rabbits.
We had one as a kid I loved squab ,its on my to do list.
http://www.milkwood.net/2013/05/21/rese ... ollectors/
or
bat box we have tonnes of micro bats that feast on mosquitoes around here

[vtsnowedin]

A plant that accumulates K from thirty feet down would not do me a bit of good as I am lucky to have thirty inches of soil over solid bedrock.
Post peak I'll have to pump the 1000 gallon septic tank out onto a green manure crop in the fall then plow it in in the spring.

[Pops]

Root surface area vs volume is more import than depth and mycorrhizae activity is also important according to this:
http://www.plantphysiol.org/content/116/2/447.full

[vtsnowedin]

Root surface area vs volume is more import than depth and mycorrhizae activity is also important according to this:
http://www.plantphysiol.org/content/116/2/447.full

Way too many letters and exponents etc. for my old brain to follow. And what the bejusues is a "mycorrhizae"? Interesting that somebody is looking into it at that level. Perhaps they will come up with ways to improve uptake efficiencies and drastically reduce the amount of imported N.P. And K that need to be applied.

[vtsnowedin]

Here is the hint snowy: mycorrhiza. Now do your research.

Hey I've got a foot of snow coming to plow and shovel. I can't be spending all my time on Google! LOL I'm getting real close to being snowed in for real.

[basil_hayden]

Here is the hint snowy: mycorrhiza. Now do your research.

Hey I've got a foot of snow coming to plow and shovel. I can't be spending all my time on Google! LOL I'm getting real close to being snowed in for real.

It's a fungus that can be symbiotic for some plant roots, helping the roots pick up more nutrients. It promotes bioavailability, but can't make stuff that's not there. I'd bet it's something that either is aleady around naturally in your soil or travels with the seed. Either way there's little point to paying extra for it, unless you're a pot farmer.

Looks like the deep stuff's coming your way for a change, vt!
Don't get snowedin! I'm running out of places to pile it.

[vtsnowedin]

Looks like the deep stuff's coming your way for a change, vt!
Don't get snowedin! I'm running out of places to pile it.

Well you have certainly had your share and then some lately.
I have plenty of places to put it as I'm not hemmed in by fences and property lines but you still have to grab each blade full and push it out of the way or up onto a pile. +14 F right now and light snow sifting down steady.

[careinke]

Root surface area vs volume is more import than depth and mycorrhizae activity is also important according to this:
http://www.plantphysiol.org/content/116/2/447.full

Way too many letters and exponents etc. for my old brain to follow. And what the bejusues is a "mycorrhizae"? Interesting that somebody is looking into it at that level. Perhaps they will come up with ways to improve uptake efficiencies and drastically reduce the amount of imported N.P. And K that need to be applied.

Mycorrhizae is the symbiotic association between plant roots and soil fungus. Some soil fungus dissolve rock for its minerals, lets say P for instance, to "trade" with the plants root nodules in exchange for a dollop of carbohydrates provided by the plant. Unfortunately, commercial ag soil is dead, draw your own conclusions...

Soil biology is a pretty neglected science, I mean why bother, when you can just mine the nutrients, or produce them with oil. Besides, with hundreds of thousands of DIFFERENT soil organisms in a single teaspoon of live soil, you can see the difficulty studying such a complex system using traditional reductionist science. It's just too complex with too many variables.

Most of the soil biology research, especially mycelium research, has happened in the last decade or so. This means most farmers, with an average age of 66, were long past their college years when the research was conducted.

[Shaved Monkey]

The free way to introduce all the good stuff into your soil is compost tea.
"Compost tea is a liquid produced by extracting bacteria, fungi, protozoa and nematodes from compost." (for Australians a hand full of bush turkey nest will give you all the fungi you need.)
All you need is a bag a bucket, some compost, some water and a cheap aerator

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iqa_s1yIvEY


http://www.soilfoodweb.com.au/index.php ... &Itemid=56

Diluted molasses does a good job as does worm juice from your worm farm for getting all the good things to grow.
Avoid artificial fertilisers and herbicides because they will kill everything your trying to grow.

[onlooker]

just to add to this thread, the soil is we can all agree very damaged. Devoid of nutrients and being eroded constantly. I suggest the book "The Final empire - the collapse of civilization" by W.M. Kotke which is very elucidating in regards to in particular soil it's immeasurable value. "without soil their is no life" just one of the quotes from this book. Another pertains to that the soil in many places is now dead because of overuse and application of synthetic fertilizers. So this cited book makes the alarming statement that once synthetic fertilizers are lacking, the world cannot feed itself ie. starvation. Of course with the many eco-abuses occurring who knows which one will manifest itself the soonest and the worst.

[Shaved Monkey]

Industrial agriculture is malnutrition for people and the soil

[vtsnowedin]

mycorrhiza is essentially mushroom roots,

(Snowy, take it to the weather channel. This is about peak oil and death, not your country estate)

Thread Nazi!!
My "country estate" is where the mycorrhiza still live and haven't seen a pesticide or commercial fertilizer in decades. It is where I will live with ,and deal with peak oil ,and eventually die.

[SeaGypsy]

& be eaten by mycorrhiza! I saw a documentary somewhere showing the fungal motherweb reaching virtually instantaneously for fresh, hopefully soon dead bodies, as quick as flies & quicker than ants.