[theluckycountry]

so apparently they think if the planes are gone you will just stay home instead of hoping into a coal fired EV or train to get to where you need to go.

Exactly, you nailed it. people jump on planes because it's convenient, like driving to the KFC store rather than spending an hour cooking a nutritious meal at home. Take away the convenience factor and certainly people will not travel. Who would want to ride a train 500 miles, especially in America on that degenerate passenger rail system. I believe freight trains have priority over passenger trains on single track there, and the water onboard is toxic.

Ahhh, the reality of Peak oil, bit by bit, step by step. In another 40 years people will be sitting around the torch light looking back on today as the "Good ol Days"

[vtsnowedin]

Better yet actually compute the foot print. A Boeing 747 carrying 366 passengers uses 5000 gallons in flying 1000 miles. Take those 366 passengers and put them two to a car getting 25mpg and the gas to go that 1000 miles is 7320 gallons plus factor in that 1000 miles by car is a two day trip so it involves a hotel overnight and 2196 meals etc. Now add in the lost 250 or so work days for those of the passengers with a job.

[AdamB]

Take those 366 passengers and put them two to a car getting 25mpg and the gas to go that 1000 miles is 7320 gallons plus factor in that 1000 miles by car is a two day trip so it involves a hotel overnight and 2196 meals etc.

Amateur hour. 1000 miles in 15 hours, 3 tanks of fuel. Do people really dawdle on American interstates where 1000 miles is a 2 day trip? I did this in November as nothing more than a test run on my recent ICE antique acquisition, to check oil useage, head temps under load for multiple hours, looking for leaks or something to break, just to make sure it wouldn't grenade on me on a trip that mattered as compared to just a test.

[theluckycountry]

Better yet actually compute the foot print. A Boeing 747 carrying 366 passengers uses 5000 gallons in flying 1000 miles...

Yes, too true, but as we said, most simply wont make the trip by car so there will be big savings in oil. centuries ago if you had relatives 50 miles away you could ride your horse there for a visit, but you wouldn't do it every week would you. Maybe for x-mass? Today people drive that far every day just for work.

I would assume most poster here vts came to awareness of peak oil in the early 2000's, after the US government invaded Iraq to secure those reserves. The government and their corporate sponsors knew about Peak decades before that I'll wager. The CIA put a paper out referring to it in the 70's even. It was one of the biggest mistakes of the PO crowd, assuming the Government needed to Wake Up to the fact. But government already knew and had plans on the drawing board, but plans, if they were made public, would have been rejected by the masses.

These moves to limit car travel and abolish air travel are all part of those plans I believe. While we have been sitting around here debating nuclear and hydrogen power they have been debating how to destroy demand for the consumption of fossil fuels. These sanctions that will see half of Europe freeze this winter, that's all part of it. Limit the availability, force the public to make changes NOW rather than at the last minute when the wells run dry. Ramp up fear over a virus and close the factories, lockdown the world, another way to destroy demand for oil.

It's as plain as the nose on your face and it doesn't take any conspiracy theory to explain it. All you have to do is remember that politicians lie all the time, about everything, and it becomes self-evident. I said here that the pandemic was BS and that it would be followed by another BS reason why people can't access the fuels they have become accustomed to using. And here we are, an endless war in a country most people hadn't heard of a year ago, limiting the worlds access to energy, all by government mandate, all for the greater good. This war will end but the demand destruction wont. This is the "solution" to depleting oil and gas reserves and always was.

[vtsnowedin]

To deminish travel substantially would reduce economic activity and impoverish the nation. I can't think of a stupider goal to have other then a move to a full socialist form of government.

[AdamB]

To deminish travel substantially would reduce economic activity and impoverish the nation. I can't think of a stupider goal to have other then a move to a full socialist form of government.

Or put the leader of the Republican Party back in charge. Not sure exactly what form of government that would be, banana Republic strongman type thing? Being Sleepy in a leader seems to be better than being a traitor at this point, but I'll give you that there is still time left to run in the Sleepy administration.

[careinke]

To deminish travel substantially would reduce economic activity and impoverish the nation. I can't think of a stupider goal to have other then a move to a full socialist form of government.

Or put the leader of the Republican Party back in charge. Not sure exactly what form of government that would be, banana Republic strongman type thing? Being Sleepy in a leader seems to be better than being a traitor at this point, but I'll give you that there is still time left to run in the Sleepy administration.

Who is the leader of the Republican Party? As far as the traitor Brandon, congress has just started looking. So far, it doesn't look good.

Peace

[AdamB]

To deminish travel substantially would reduce economic activity and impoverish the nation. I can't think of a stupider goal to have other then a move to a full socialist form of government.

Or put the leader of the Republican Party back in charge. Not sure exactly what form of government that would be, banana Republic strongman type thing? Being Sleepy in a leader seems to be better than being a traitor at this point, but I'll give you that there is still time left to run in the Sleepy administration.

Who is the leader of the Republican Party?

A picture is worth 1000 words. And plus we can learn new words!

As far as the traitor Brandon, congress has just started looking. So far, it doesn't look good.
Peace

Well, just as I did with Trump, I'll wait until the evidence and testimony comes out in depositions, impeachments, grand jury investigations, guilty verdicts, etc etc. We just can't be making things up without real evidence (as opposed to claims, innuendo, supposition, and fantasyland hopes and dreams) now can we? That would make us..like...peak oilers of yesteryear!

[careinke]

To deminish travel substantially would reduce economic activity and impoverish the nation. I can't think of a stupider goal to have other then a move to a full socialist form of government.

Or put the leader of the Republican Party back in charge. Not sure exactly what form of government that would be, banana Republic strongman type thing? Being Sleepy in a leader seems to be better than being a traitor at this point, but I'll give you that there is still time left to run in the Sleepy administration.

Who is the leader of the Republican Party?

A picture is worth 1000 words. And plus we can learn new words!

As far as the traitor Brandon, congress has just started looking. So far, it doesn't look good.
Peace

Well, just as I did with Trump, I'll wait until the evidence and testimony comes out in depositions, impeachments, grand jury investigations, guilty verdicts, etc etc. We just can't be making things up without real evidence (as opposed to claims, innuendo, supposition, and fantasyland hopes and dreams) now can we? That would make us..like...peak oilers of yesteryear!

Did Trump get convicted of Treason? I must have missed that. If you waited like you JUST said, you should still be waiting.

As for Trump being the LEADER of the Republican Party, that would be Ronna Romney McDaniel. You seem to be misinformed.

Pretty sure the new word you posted applies to ALL politicians including Brandon, and Shifty Shift.

Peace

[theluckycountry]

To deminish travel substantially would reduce economic activity and impoverish the nation. I can't think of a stupider goal to have other then a move to a full socialist form of government.

That is 20th century thinking, based on the Growth Paradigm powered by cheap oil. The new paradigm will be degrowth, I think we are all aware of that. Unless of course you believe they will convert the Earth's fleets of cars and trucks to lithium powered units, and find a way to power wide bodied jets without jet fuel.

[vtsnowedin]

I see the leadership of the GOP as now up for grabs and up to the voters. Contenders in my view in no particular order are: Desantos, Abbot,Kemp, Hutchinson, Cheney and Hogan,

[AdamB]

Well, just as I did with Trump, I'll wait until the evidence and testimony comes out in depositions, impeachments, grand jury investigations, guilty verdicts, etc etc. We just can't be making things up without real evidence (as opposed to claims, innuendo, supposition, and fantasyland hopes and dreams) now can we? That would make us..like...peak oilers of yesteryear!

Did Trump get convicted of Treason?

Oh no, absolutely not. Currently the investigation into him is ongoing at the Federal and State levels (as well as the individual allegations leveled at him in civil courts) , and has resulted in no conviction of anything except one of his companies is doing tax fraud and whatnot. Under his direction, according to the evidence presented in court. What we have related to Trump's traitorous BEHAVIOR is the testimony under oath from co-conspirators, friends, lawyers, other government employees, the co-conspirators who were out to get the VP and Speaker of the House on Jan 6, phone calls Trump admits he made and we have tapes of, it's all really great stuff and no..no conviction yet. But take all that evidence, and compare it to the Oath of Office.

"I do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will faithfully execute the Office of President of the United States, and will to the best of my Ability, preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the United States."

Tell us careinke, you mentioned being military...did you break your oath of office anywhere during your career, and if you did, would you have thought it was okay to call you a traitor, or would you have to have done more than break your oath to your country and constitution?

Here is the one the military folks get.

"I, _____, do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God."

So would defending the Constituion in your eyes as an oath taker include going in armed to the Capital trying to stop the transfer of power, or sending others in to do it, or asking them to deal with properly elected US officials by harming or hanging them on your behalf?

What did the military label those who failed at their oath? Confused? Would they tell you "well, you have to take the Oath but you don't have to pay any attention to it"?

So yes, Trump has not been convicted. But here is the definition of a traitor.

trai·tor
/ˈtrādər/
Learn to pronounce
noun
a person who betrays a friend, country, principle, etc.

Do Trumps known, video taped, audio taped, testified to and admitted actions amount to betraying the country, or not?

As for Trump being the LEADER of the Republican Party, that would be Ronna Romney McDaniel. You seem to be misinformed.

You mean, Trump's RNC chair? Why Trump’s RNC Chair Ronna McDaniel is so hard to oust You must not understand how politics works.

Pretty sure the new word you posted applies to ALL politicians including Brandon, and Shifty Shift.
Peace

Just point me at the depositions, convictions of co-conspirators, government employees under oath testifying on Brandon doing all those things a traitor does, Brandon's own words telling folks to break the law for him, or maybe even threatening them with the Justice Department for not committing illegal acts on his behalf and I'm in! Got any of these things on Brandon that we already have on the traitor?

And don't even get me started on Russia!

[careinke]

Well, just as I did with Trump, I'll wait until the evidence and testimony comes out in depositions, impeachments, grand jury investigations, guilty verdicts, etc etc. We just can't be making things up without real evidence (as opposed to claims, innuendo, supposition, and fantasyland hopes and dreams) now can we? That would make us..like...peak oilers of yesteryear!

Did Trump get convicted of Treason?

Oh no, absolutely not. Currently the investigation into him is ongoing at the Federal and State levels (as well as the individual allegations leveled at him in civil courts) , and has resulted in no conviction of anything except one of his companies is doing tax fraud and whatnot. Under his direction, according to the evidence presented in court. What we have related to Trump's traitorous BEHAVIOR is the testimony under oath from co-conspirators, friends, lawyers, other government employees, the co-conspirators who were out to get the VP and Speaker of the House on Jan 6, phone calls Trump admits he made and we have tapes of, it's all really great stuff and no..no conviction yet. But take all that evidence, and compare it to the Oath of Office.

"I do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will faithfully execute the Office of President of the United States, and will to the best of my Ability, preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the United States."

Tell us careinke, you mentioned being military...did you break your oath of office anywhere during your career, and if you did, would you have thought it was okay to call you a traitor, or would you have to have done more than break your oath to your country and constitution?

Here is the one the military folks get.

"I, _____, do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God."

So would defending the Constituion in your eyes as an oath taker include going in armed to the Capital trying to stop the transfer of power, or sending others in to do it, or asking them to deal with properly elected US officials by harming or hanging them on your behalf?

What did the military label those who failed at their oath? Confused? Would they tell you "well, you have to take the Oath but you don't have to pay any attention to it"?

So yes, Trump has not been convicted. But here is the definition of a traitor.

trai·tor
/ˈtrādər/
Learn to pronounce
noun
a person who betrays a friend, country, principle, etc.

Do Trumps known, video taped, audio taped, testified to and admitted actions amount to betraying the country, or not?

As for Trump being the LEADER of the Republican Party, that would be Ronna Romney McDaniel. You seem to be misinformed.

You mean, Trump's RNC chair? Why Trump’s RNC Chair Ronna McDaniel is so hard to oust You must not understand how politics works.

Pretty sure the new word you posted applies to ALL politicians including Brandon, and Shifty Shift.
Peace

Just point me at the depositions, convictions of co-conspirators, government employees under oath testifying on Brandon doing all those things a traitor does, Brandon's own words telling folks to break the law for him, or maybe even threatening them with the Justice Department for not committing illegal acts on his behalf and I'm in! Got any of these things on Brandon that we already have on the traitor?

And don't even get me started on Russia!

Adam, I never took that oath, it is for enlisted, lets see if you can find the Oath for Officers. Actually we are required to NOT follow the orders of our superiors, Including the President, if it goes against the Constitution.

That said, as an officer, you better be right in your assessment.

Peace

[AdamB]

Adam, I never took that oath, it is for enlisted, lets see if you can find the Oath for Officers. Actually we are required to NOT follow the orders of our superiors, Including the President, if it goes against the Constitution.

I apologize for not knowing your rank, I'm glad I did remember that you were a veteran though. I imagine that officers might have even a better oath related to trying to not overthrow the government, institutions as determined by the Constitution, etc etc. Even obeying lawful orders, and laws in general!

That said, as an officer, you better be right in your assessment.
Peace

Well, as a citizen I of course am allowed to be as free wheeling random as the geologically ignorant were about peak oil. As someone with an extensive scientific background I would like to think I am guided by the evidence available rather than hopes, dreams, desires, and any kind of that previously mentioned ignorance. Plus I've spent way too much time around lawyers, and you get to learn their thought processes as well, which while no more scientifically accurate than Plant thinking a dead man can get bail for a crime, and it's the Dem's fault, doesn't mean you are a lawyer, but just familiar with the thought process of a different specialty.

In any case, I'll grant you that neither has been convicted of it yet. But weighing the currently available evidence against either is only leaning one way right now.

[careinke]

Adam, I never took that oath, it is for enlisted, lets see if you can find the Oath for Officers. Actually we are required to NOT follow the orders of our superiors, Including the President, if it goes against the Constitution.

I apologize for not knowing your rank, I'm glad I did remember that you were a veteran though. I imagine that officers might have even a better oath related to trying to not overthrow the government, institutions as determined by the Constitution, etc etc. Even obeying lawful orders, and laws in general!

Here is the Oath I took:

“I [state your full name],
having been appointed
a (rank) in the United States
Air Force, do solemnly swear
(or affirm) that I will support
and defend the Constitution of
the United States against all
enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith
and allegiance to the same;
that I take this obligation
freely, without any mental
reservation or purpose of
evasion; and that I will well
and faithfully discharge the
duties of the office upon
which I am about to enter. So
help me God (optional).”

You notice the ONLY thing I swore to defend is the U.S. Constitution. Not my Superiors, Not the President, Not even the United States! There are sound reasons for this Oath, that's why I took it.

Peace

[FamousDrScanlon]

No matter the original topic, one or more, 'it's all about me' Americans will shoehorn their meaningless cartoon politics to the fore.

10C warming locked-in

New research from eminent climate scientist Prof James Hansen and colleagues suggests a planet killing event. This is based on current CO2 levels in the atmosphere, not on future emissions. ‘Eventual global warming due to today’s GHG forcing alone – after slow feedbacks operate – is about 10°C.’ Collapse is inevitable.

Read the full paper here:

https://justcollapse.org/2022/12/16/10c ... locked-in/

In the meantime enjoy grocery shopping

Drought leads to 80% jump in vegetable prices

Dive Brief:


*The price of vegetables from producers shot up 38% on a monthly basis in November — and jumped over 80% compared to November 2021 — according to the U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics latest Producer Price Index.

*The price of water has increased for farmers, as rising temperatures and droughts in the Western region of the U.S. have hampered their ability to grow crops.

*While food inflation has slowed during the last two months, there continues to be a tightened supply of vegetables because of compounding weather issues, so price instability could persist.

Dive Insight:

Without the necessary infrastructure to replenish the water supply, agriculture will continue to see serious losses in the coming years. Customers will keep paying more for produce as temperatures rise and water becomes more scarce.

https://www.fooddive.com/news/drought-v ... se/638461/

.
Drought in the United States: A Primer and Review of 2022 (with some Action Items)

Two years ago, when the study was published, it revealed that this dry period was the second-worst in the past 1,200 years, exceeded only by a megadrought (a dry period lasting for decades) in the late 1500s. After two more dry years (2020, 2021), the current period of dryness in the Western United States broke that record, and the last 22 years have now been the driest in at least the last 1,200 years.

https://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2022/12 ... items.html

.

I'm gonna bump y'all hip to a great site that you can use as a daily reminder as to where me, you & everyone you know are headed fast.
One day it's economic consequences & such & the next day it's climate consequences - back and forth back and forth.

The person who puts it all together is 'Panopticon' & the site's name is 'climate and economy' but I prefer the Daily Doom.

https://climateandeconomy.com/

.

There is a history of the earth puking out buried greenhouse gasses which alters the atmosphere, triggers global warming & runaway climate change & even nastier things like a Canfield ocean.
If you study earth history it's surprising how often massive changes have happened in a decades time, like a meltwater
pulses.

An Ancient Meltwater Pulse Raised Sea Levels by 18 Meters
Meltwater pulse 1A, a period of rapid sea level rise after the last deglaciation, was powered by melting ice from North America and Scandinavia, according to new research.

"The period of time when sea levels shot up at the end of the last glacial period, roughly 14,600 years ago, is known as meltwater pulse 1A (MWP-1A). Ever since this pulse was identified from coral records in 1989, the origins of the meltwater have been the subject of debate. Some researchers have hypothesized that Antarctica was the major source of the meltwater, whereas other scientists have suggested that it came from the Northern Hemisphere.

A new study in Nature Communications has concluded that melting ice sheets in North America, followed by Scandinavia, were the dominant drivers of MWP-1A and that the world’s mean sea level rise was 17.9 meters over 500 years."

https://eos.org/articles/an-ancient-mel ... -18-meters

500 years. The change is massive. I wonder at what year into it would be enough to destroy civilization? A few years ago the Russians built a floating nuclear power plant. Perhaps they know something?
.

Lately I've been looking at the similarities between today's fossil fuel burning human altered atmosphere and the fast changing atmosphere at the beginning of earths 7th known mass extinction {little known}. It's been researched for decades, but only 'officially' announced in 2020.
Not much interest in it especially given the fascinating dinosaur connection. Usually anything dinosaur has the MSN & Dino fans all over it, but not this time. Hmmm I wonder what it is about this bit of Dino & earth history that is keeping them away?
.

Newly discovered mass extinction event triggered the dawn of the dinosaurs

Huge volcanic eruptions 233 million years ago pumped carbon dioxide, methane and water vapour into the atmosphere. This series of violent explosions, on what we now know as the west coast of Canada, led to massive global warming. Our new research has revealed that this was a planet-changing mass extinction event that killed off many of the dominant tetrapods and heralded the dawn of the dinosaurs.

https://theconversation.com/newly-disco ... urs-146248

Ooops there I go rambling on again. I better let you get back to your super duper all important American politics. What could possibly be more important? Surely the future of the human race hinges on which sucmbag criminal Boomer millions of corporate state educated American consumers vote for. Yup, So so so very important y'all are.

[vtsnowedin]

In the USA floating nuclear power plants are called aircraft carriers.

[AdamB]

Here is the Oath I took:

“I [state your full name],
having been appointed
a (rank) in the United States
Air Force, do solemnly swear
(or affirm) that I will support
and defend the Constitution of
the United States against all
enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith
and allegiance to the same;
that I take this obligation
freely, without any mental
reservation or purpose of
evasion; and that I will well
and faithfully discharge the
duties of the office upon
which I am about to enter. So
help me God (optional).”

You notice the ONLY thing I swore to defend is the U.S. Constitution. Not my Superiors, Not the President, Not even the United States! There are sound reasons for this Oath, that's why I took it.
Peace

It's a decent oath. So in your eyes, as an Oath Taker of that particular oath, would you say that someone with an oath to defend the Constitution like yours, or yours, is also required to defend the processes mandated in the Constitution, like the procedures and processes and timing of a peaceful transfer of power?

[AdamB]

To deminish travel substantially would reduce economic activity and impoverish the nation. I can't think of a stupider goal to have other then a move to a full socialist form of government.

That is 20th century thinking, based on the Growth Paradigm powered by cheap oil.

Obviously Chinese mining colony workers don't understand how expensive oll was back pre 1900, or how expensive it was in the 1970's, or how expensive it was in 2008, or how expensive it was 2011-2014..or maybe they just don't teach any math in the Chinese mining colonies to the workers?

The new paradigm will be degrowth, I think we are all aware of that. Unless of course you believe they will convert the Earth's fleets of cars and trucks to lithium powered units, and find a way to power wide bodied jets without jet fuel.

The new paradigm was supposed to be peak oil. In 2002, 2005, 2006, 2008, 2015 and when it actually happened in 2018 nobody even noticed, that's how well that paradigm worked. Happy McDoomsters were calling for your degrowth all along the way, and here we all are, still waiting for a lousy recession, let alone full blown degrowth.

[AdamB]

Newly discovered mass extinction event triggered the dawn of the dinosaurs

Huge volcanic eruptions 233 million years ago pumped carbon dioxide, methane and water vapour into the atmosphere. This series of violent explosions, on what we now know as the west coast of Canada, led to massive global warming. Our new research has revealed that this was a planet-changing mass extinction event that killed off many of the dominant tetrapods and heralded the dawn of the dinosaurs.

https://theconversation.com/newly-disco ... urs-146248

Ooops there I go rambling on again. I better let you get back to your super duper all important American politics. What could possibly be more important? Surely the future of the human race hinges on which sucmbag criminal Boomer millions of corporate state educated American consumers vote for. Yup, So so so very important y'all are.

I've mentioned the meltwater pulses before, people usually interpreted knowing anything about such events in the recent past like that as climate denialism. The climate is changing. It always has been. +10C is going to be wildly entertaining though, from the scientific perspective.