[Micki]

The American Academy of Environmental Medicine (AAEM) has just issued a call for an immediate moratorium on Genetically Manipulated (GMO) Foods. In a just-released position paper on GMO foods, the AAEM states that ‘GM foods pose a serious health risk’ and calls for a moratorium on GMO foods. Citing several animal studies, the AAEM concludes ‘there is more than a casual association between GMO foods and adverse health effects’ and that ‘GM foods pose a serious health risk in the areas of toxicology, allergy and immune function, reproductive health, and metabolic, physiologic and genetic health.’ The report is a devastating blow to the multibillion dollar international agribusiness industry, most especially to Monsanto Corporation, the world’s leading purveyor of GMO seeds and related herbicides.

http://www.financialsense.com/editorial ... /0521.html

Got garden?

[Kristen]

Good article on what a critical thinker would say, if you mess up the genes in plants and then eat them, there's bound to be some consequences.

one thing I noticed though, from the article

In a press release dated May 19, the American Academy of Environmental Medicine, which describes itself as ‘an international association of physicians and other professionals dedicated to addressing the clinical aspects of environmental health

If they are indeed an international organization why call themselves the "American" Academy? Totally off topic, but it bugged me for some reason.

[Micki]

Good article on what a critical thinker would say, if you mess up the genes in plants and then eat them, there's bound to be some consequences.

one thing I noticed though, from the article

In a press release dated May 19, the American Academy of Environmental Medicine, which describes itself as ‘an international association of physicians and other professionals dedicated to addressing the clinical aspects of environmental health

If they are indeed an international organization why call themselves the "American" Academy? Totally off topic, but it bugged me for some reason.

Not sure but American Express also calls itself international.
I am more interested in knowing that the people in it have cred.

[Cid_Yama]

The American Academy of Environmental Medicine was presented with the results from a study by Dr. Irina Ermakova, a biologist at the Institute of Higher Nervous Activity and Neurophysiology of the Russian Academy of Sciences (RAS). In her study, which was originally presented on October 10, 2005 to the symposium on genetic modification, organized by the National Association for Genetic Security (NAGS), female rats were fed Roundup Ready™ brand genetically engineered soy flour before and during pregnancy, and during lactation. An astounding 55.6% of the offspring died within three weeks, compared to only 9% from the group whose mothers consumed non-genetically engineered soy flour. Furthermore, those in the Roundup Ready group also exhibited significant reduction in weight compared to the controls.

They look international to me. Perhaps when they were founded back in 1965 they were just in the US.

[Kristen]

Sorry with all the different stories on the internet with so many arguments its almost impossible to take anything at heart, the credibility issue Micky mentioned. Thanks Cid for the explanation, I feel idiotic not even asking myself that logical answer. Down with GM crops. They cheat the farmers and even themselves.

[Cid_Yama]

Sometimes we create ourselves boxes that we don't think to look outside of. Normal cognitive mindset.

[kpeavey]

All our crops are from organic, open pollenated, heirloom, and sustainably grown seed.

[outcast]

Have any of these studies actually been published in peer reviewed medical journals?

[Kristen]

Have any of these studies actually been published in peer reviewed medical journals?

Not exactly but Germany is taking action.

Germany to ban cultivation of GMO maize: Minister

from Reuters

http://www.reuters.com/article/scienceN ... cienceNews

[Cid_Yama]

Have any of these studies actually been published in peer reviewed medical journals?

Irina Ermakova, “Genetically modified soy leads to the decrease of weight and high mortality of rat pups of the first generation. Preliminary studies,” Ecosinform 1 (2006): 4–9.

M. Malatesta, C. Caporaloni, S. Gavaudan, M. B. Rocchi, S. Serafini, C. Tiberi, G. Gazzanelli, “Ultrastructural Morphometrical and Immunocytochemical Analyses of Hepatocyte Nuclei from Mice Fed on Genetically Modified Soybean,” Cell Struct Funct. 27 (2002): 173–180

Malatesta, et al, “Ultrastructural Analysis of Pancreatic Acinar Cells from Mice Fed on Genetically modified Soybean,” J Anat. 2002 November; 201(5): 409–415; see also M. Malatesta, M. Biggiogera, E. Manuali, M. B. L. Rocchi, B. Baldelli, G. Gazzanelli, “Fine Structural Analyses of Pancreatic Acinar Cell Nuclei from Mice Fed on GM Soybean,” Eur J Histochem 47 (2003): 385–388.

L. Vecchio et al, “Ultrastructural Analysis of Testes from Mice Fed on Genetically Modified Soybean,” European Journal of Histochemistry 48, no. 4 (Oct–Dec 2004):449–454.

Nagui H. Fares, Adel K. El-Sayed, “Fine Structural Changes in the Ileum of Mice Fed on Endotoxin Treated Potatoes and Transgenic Potatoes,” Natural Toxins 6, no. 6 (1998): 219–233.

R. Tudisco, P. Lombardi, F. Bovera, D. d’Angelo, M. I. Cutrignelli, V. Mastellone, V. Terzi, L. Avallone, F. Infascelli, “Genetically Modified Soya Bean in Rabbit Feeding: Detection of DNA Fragments and Evaluation of Metabolic Effects by Enzymatic Analysis,” Animal Science 82 (2006): 193–199.

I'm sure there are many more. This is not some fringy eco-alarmist thing. Europe has just about uniformly banned GM food products.

Europe votes to keep GM crops bans

The votes today took place in the Regulatory Committee meeting on the deliberate release of GMOs in the environment. Each of the Commission's proposals, calling on countries to repeal their bans within 20 days, failed to get the required "qualified majority" of 232 votes out of 321.

What that means is third world countries that can't keep it out and the good old US of A are eating it.

Makes you feel good and safe doesn't it.

[alokin]

I wonder if this story has any consequences or it will silently disappear and then Montsanto can do what the like.
Or if any of the responsible persons of the Academy will die prematurely?
Or will it be ignored because it is the American Academy of Environmental Medicine something with environment in its name must bee greenish and leftist.

[Schmuto]

Go to the organization's website.

Do a search for MDs in California.

A state with about 40 million people.

There are 24 members.

So, if we extrapolate throughout the population of the U.S., you've looking at about 180 members across the county who are actual doctors.


The only issue for GMOs is allergy. If you put a gene in a food and that gene expresses a protein in the part that is eaten, it generally results in a new antigen.

Beyond that, the fear of GMOs is irrational and equivalent to the fear of ghosts.

If you believe in ghosts you are a moron who shouldn't be allowed to vote.

[Micki]

Go to the organization's website.

Do a search for MDs in California.

A state with about 40 million people.

There are 24 members.

So, if we extrapolate throughout the population of the U.S., you've looking at about 180 members across the county who are actual doctors.


The only issue for GMOs is allergy. If you put a gene in a food and that gene expresses a protein in the part that is eaten, it generally results in a new antigen.

Beyond that, the fear of GMOs is irrational and equivalent to the fear of ghosts.

If you believe in ghosts you are a moron who shouldn't be allowed to vote.

Truth isn't dependent on how many speak it or believe it.
So what is more important is what research that has been done rather than how many in a population of 40Million that make the claims.

Besides from that a great showcase of fascistoid mindset where you suggest that only people matching your beliefsystem should have the right to vote. It really shows how there can be a little Hitler lurking inside anyone.

[Schmuto]

Beyond that, the fear of GMOs is irrational and equivalent to the fear of ghosts. If you believe in ghosts you are a moron who shouldn't be allowed to vote.

Truth isn't dependent on how many speak it or believe it.
So what is more important is what research that has been done rather than how many in a population of 40Million that make the claims.

Besides from that a great showcase of fascistoid mindset where you suggest that only people matching your beliefsystem should have the right to vote. It really shows how there can be a little Hitler lurking inside anyone.

1. Agree with the first thought.
2. Agree that "research" is all that matters, regardless of who did it. Provide a link to the actual research article and I'll read it and comment on it in detail in this thread.
3. Belief system?

No.

Excuse me.

It's not a "belief system."

Ghosts are what stupid people believe in.

How do I know this?

Because over the last 100 years of modern science there has not been a single bit of evidence indicating that ghosts exist.

That's why.

If it was, in fact, true that ghosts existed, then it would be inevitable that we would have been able to show it by now.

Just like ESP.

Telekinesis.

Channeling.

It reads like a list of "Beliefs of the Ignoramuses of the World."

When some dipshit, no-brain idiot tells me that he has seen a ghost in his house, I always say back - "Really? I've seen a goblin in mine. Little green guy with warts and a bad attitude."

And the best part? These idiots look at me aghast, and I know they're thinking, "wow, this idiot believes in goblins."

F----ing awesome!!!

I love dicking around with stupid people who believe in ghosts.

[Ludi]

Or will it be ignored because it is the American Academy of Environmental Medicine something with environment in its name must bee greenish and leftist.

BINGO!

[Ludi]

Beyond that, the fear of GMOs is irrational and equivalent to the fear of ghosts.

If you believe in ghosts you are a moron who shouldn't be allowed to vote.

So only people with your belief system (that everything can be measured and described by science) should get to participate? .

That's right. Anyone who makes decisions about their life based on preference or esthetics should not be allowed to vote. So anyone who chooses their diet based on what they like to eat, rather than on strict necessary nutrition, should not be allowed to vote. Anyone who dresses in order to look nice, instead of merely to protect themselves from the elements, should not be allowed to vote. Anyone who listens to music should not be allowed to vote, because enjoyment of music is esthetic, not scientific.

[outcast]

I decided to ask someone who knew what he was talking about his opinion:

Right here.

I read this...

This technology is also referred to as "genetic engineering", "biotechnology" or "recombinant DNA technology" and consists of randomly inserting genetic fragments of DNA from one organism to another, usually from a different species.

...and didn't bother reading any further initially. That generalization alone tells me the authors have a poor understanding of the subject material.

Skimming through their sources, I see a Lancet and Royal Society of Medicine, but nothing else noteworthy. Most of them deal exclusively with specific rat and mouse strains, so I would take all the findings with a significant grain of salt - especially as their findings deal specifically with the immune system and hormone regulation. While mice make good general biological models for humans, specifics don't usually carry over directly. Our immune and digestive systems are sufficiently different to inject a healthy dose of skepticism.

This paper reads like an opinion piece sprinkled with citations (none of which actually cite anything, you might notice, but take generalizations from entire papers) to make it look like science. And citing books? Please. Give me reproducible facts or STFU, thanks.

So I'm calling BS on this. One other thing to consider is that GM crops have been widely used in the food supply for nearly a decade, and none of these issues have come to light. Gee, I wonder why that is.

Or will it be ignored because it is the American Academy of Environmental Medicine something with environment in its name must bee greenish and leftist.

There's a lot of junk science in groups like that.

[Schmuto]

Beyond that, the fear of GMOs is irrational and equivalent to the fear of ghosts.

If you believe in ghosts you are a moron who shouldn't be allowed to vote.

So only people with your belief system (that everything can be measured and described by science) should get to participate? Hmm.

Guess I'm a moron, because I am all for banning GMOs until they are PROVEN safe. At the very least food containing them should be PROMINENTLY labeled.

Come on now, no need to put words in my mouth - I'll got plenty already.

I didn't say that everything can be measured by science.

I specifically referred to "ghosts." You know, the ones that haunt places?

Ghosts are not like god.

Ghosts do things. Or so the grown up children believe. They cause doors to close and chilly air to sweep over people. And yet other fun stuff!

So, unlike God, ghosts can easily be proven to exist - if they did. But they haven't been, so the only rational conclusion is that they don't.

If, on the other hand, you believe that ghosts exist but don't do anything measurable, then I have no issue with that.

But once you start telling me about how a ghost is in your house and left the cabinets in your kitchen open, I offer you 100 grand (I've got it) to video tape it the next time it happens - just set up a cam in the kitchen and run it 24/7.

Shockingly, nobody has claimed my 100 grand yet.

So it's really simple.

If a grown person came up to you and started arguing that the Easter bunny was real, would you really think it was a good decision to let this person vote?

Seriously?

You think that somebody who believes in the Easter Bunny should be allowed to choose the person who is put in charge of the U.S. nuclear arsenal?

I don't.

If a person believes in ghosts, then they believe in the Easter Bunny. It's that simple.

They might not understand that they believe in the Easter Bunny, but they do. They just call him by a different name - they call him "ghost."


Of course, the whole ghosts thing would just be a very simple litmus.

You believe in ghosts? Step to the left, please, you don't get to help elect the next commander of the world's greatest military.

I'd have about 100 other questions too . . .

Where is Iraq on this world map? No, sorry, that's Chad, step to the left please.
Does the word "t-e-r-r-o-r-i-s-t" have two syllables or three? Two? Over there to the left please.
How many atoms are in a water molecule? "Lots?" Sorry, wrong answer, over to the left.
What's 10% of 93? "Math is hard?" You'll be over there on the left.
What language do they speak in Iran? Iranian? To the left.

And so on.

That would leave about 1% of the population on the right.

I'd remove all the bankers from the group.

I'd then give that 1% complete voting power, with the women in the group getting a pro-rated vote that ensures that the female vote is 66% of the total vote.

Then, and only then, would you have a government with any chance of not completely screwing things up given enough time.

What?

You like your sacrosanct one-person one-vote democracy?

Good. You're going to be getting a whole big dose of it over the next few years.

You want to know why peak oil is not the primary issue being discussed in the world today?

Because people who believe in the Easter Bunny named "ghost" are allowed to vote.

[outcast]

Regardless of that issue, I still think GM food is a bad, bad idea under the current system (and probably under any system that could produce it, realistically).

Based on what?

[Micki]

Ghosts are not like god.

Ghosts do things. Or so the grown up children believe. They cause doors to close and chilly air to sweep over people. And yet other fun stuff!

So, unlike God, ghosts can easily be proven to exist - if they did. But they haven't been, so the only rational conclusion is that they don't.

If, on the other hand, you believe that ghosts exist but don't do anything measurable, then I have no issue with that.
.
.
So it's really simple.
.
.
You think that somebody who believes in the Easter Bunny should be allowed to choose the person who is put in charge of the U.S. nuclear arsenal?

I don't.

If a person believes in ghosts, then they believe in the Easter Bunny. It's that simple.

I am just shocked Schmuto. You have completely surprised me with your "belief police" attitude.
What you are saying is also that believers in UFO's believe in Easter bunny becasue UFO'/Aliens "Do stuff" and therefore would have been easy to prove they existed.
And virgin mary - she's not God and does "stuff".
And black holes (there is still only circumstantial evidence for these so a border case I suppose)
Should I keep going?
Ask people interested in these fields and many of them would claim there are tonnes of evidence, including amongst other film evidence.
So your honest opinion seems to be that all those people believing in something that hasn't been proven to your standards should not have a say in anything (or when you decide so).
This is so disappointing and I really wonder why I even bother trying to get people to open their minds a little bit.