[Plantagenet]

Plant started the diversion, not me.

The data on oil prices in constant dollars since 1870 is a diversion?

Hmmmm....you would prefer no actual data be used in discussing peak oil?

[rangerone314]

Had all the stops been pulled in 2005 (as in spare production), would not oil production have been higher?

If a baseball player plays 162 games in 2012 and gets 35 homers and played in 2005 and hit 35 homes but only played 150 games, which year is really peak homers?

[seenmostofit]

Plant started the diversion, not me.

The data on oil prices in constant dollars since 1870 is a diversion?

Hmmmm....you would prefer no actual data be used in discussing peak oil?

Who said we were discussing peak oil? Seems like you and I have been discussing prices, and you not knowing much about the history of oil as a commodity. Which is apparently wiki's fault.

The topic of the thread is certainly about peak oil. Apparently it has happened. And the authors didn't even know enough about the topic to declare "DEJA VU!" during the article.This being a peak oil website, in a peak oil thread, I suppose at any second someone is going to start talking about the republican national convention, climate change, or how the current global or american economic growth is a depression of some sort.

[Plantagenet]

Glad you are enjoying your VOLT. Good prep for peak oil.

How long have you had it? Does your battery still charge to capacity, or are you seeing any decay in your battery system?

[Plantagenet]

Who said we were discussing peak oil?

Pstarr is right----whats wrong with you, dude?

You are on a website called "PEAKOIL.com" posting in a threat entitled "World Oil Production has Peaked" and you didn't think we were discussing peak oil? Really?

Wow. You just don't get it, do you? You aren't comprehending what you are reading.

Its just bizarre that you don't know that we are talking about peak oil here-----you know, your posts are often a bit.....off.


Have you ever been tested for dyslexia or early onset Alzheimer's or other cognitive issues?

[dohboi]

smoi, I agree with the others that your verbiage has drifted into the incoherent. Take a breath, think through what you want to say, and present it coherently. It is important and valuable to have a broad range of positions on these forums, but not very helpful if some are articulated in a scattered or incoherent manner.

[seenmostofit]

How long have you had it? Does your battery still charge to capacity, or are you seeing any decay in your battery system?

Couple of months, and haven't seen any degradation in battery performance yet, but the thing is still new. I'm betting even as the battery goes off over time I won't see or know the difference in anything but range. I'm getting 42-43 miles of EV before the motor turns on during the warm months, we'll see how that changes once it gets cold out. No trips, all commuting and around town stuff, 9 gallons of gas and 3500 miles so far.

[seahorse3]

STF, I don't follow every post and missed where you bought an EV, the type etc. So, sorry for the thread drift, but I would like some info on it and your experience. If you would rather send it in a PM to avoid clogging the drain on information here, please feel free.

[AdTheNad]

STF, I don't follow every post and missed where you bought an EV

STF? Shorty The F%$*?
Seenmos To Fit?
Not, SMOI, Seen Most Of It?

[dolanbaker]

STF, I don't follow every post and missed where you bought an EV

STF? Shorty The F%$*?
Seenmos To Fit?
Not, SMOI, Seen Most Of It?

Seen most of it, but not looking and thinking!

[davep]

It isn't the poor countries of the world which will solve peak oil, it is the Americas and Europes and Japans, all trying out different modes of transport and whatnot, building better batteries, building windfarms onshore and off, turning the natural gas cliff into the natural gas surplus, continuing to find new oil in old oil fields, new oil in new oil fields, each company and country looking for the best business model or plan.

That sounds a lot like trying to eke out the current paradigm using the hard to get stuff. At some point it will dramatically affect our economic system irreversibly.

The problem isn't just peak oil, it's the economy that's built on cheap energy and requires ever more to grow (as well as other myriad resource constraints). The effects will be felt more and more as banks don't fulfil their role as the accelerator for growth because the engine for growth is getting worn out.

Sorry for the laboured metaphor

Edited in a forlorn attempt to improve the metaphor.

[dolanbaker]

It isn't the poor countries of the world which will solve peak oil, it is the Americas and Europes and Japans, all trying out different modes of transport and whatnot, building better batteries, building windfarms onshore and off, turning the natural gas cliff into the natural gas surplus, continuing to find new oil in old oil fields, new oil in new oil fields, each company and country looking for the best business model or plan.

That sounds a lot like trying to eke out the current paradigm using the hard to get stuff. At some point it will dramatically affect our economic system irreversibly.

The problem isn't just peak oil, it's the economy that's built on cheap energy and requires ever more to grow (as well as other myriad resource constraints). The effects will be felt more and more as banks don't fulfil their role as the accelerator for growth because the engine for growth is getting worn out.

Sorry for the laboured metaphor

Edited in a forlorn attempt to improve the metaphor.

I prefer to think about an aeroplane that reached its "ceiling" and thepilot is trying to get more altitude out of it, but it keeps stalling as the atmosphere is too thin to support the wings or to supply air to the engines. Fuel (money) isn't a problem (you can print it) but you can't make extra air (oil).

The decline could be visualised as the fuel becoming poorer & poorer in quality, thus the aeroplane will not even be able to maintain the previous heights it used to fly at!

[seenmostofit]

That sounds a lot like trying to eke out the current paradigm using the hard to get stuff. At some point it will dramatically affect our economic system irreversibly.

At some point? How about...it has already happened, and will continue to happen, and the very presence of mass produced EVs are evidence of it? Certainly owners of the Volt won't ever confuse EVs with golf carts (the derogatory term often pointed at EVs prior to them showing up and being just like...other cars).

The problem isn't just peak oil, it's the economy that's built on cheap energy and requires ever more to grow (as well as other myriad resource constraints). The effects will be felt more and more as banks don't fulfil their role as the accelerator for growth because the engine for growth is getting worn out.

Cheap energy isn't the same as cheap oil, but let us say you are right, and cheap energy has been disappearing as fast as crude prices have been increasing over the past decade or more, even in nominal prices. The effects are here. Maybe growth is affected as the transition is happening, well, cool. It has happened, we are now slow growthers. As the transition works through the system there will be recession, economic dislocation, reorientation, substitution, volatility, harder to get oil...or more of it. Business models being altered to stay ahead of other business models, with the slower being eaten by the bear (remember that one, don't have to run faster than the bear, only have to run faster than you?).

Welcome to the new world. I recommend a career in energy for any up and comers because certainly it will be appreciated more in the future than it has been in the past.

[davep]

Welcome to the new world. I recommend a career in energy for any up and comers because certainly it will be appreciated more in the future than it has been in the past.

What percentage of the population do you think will benefit from having a family member working in energy?

And will it stop the economic/banking system from stalling when growth becomes a thing of the past?

[seenmostofit]

Welcome to the new world. I recommend a career in energy for any up and comers because certainly it will be appreciated more in the future than it has been in the past.

What percentage of the population do you think will benefit from having a family member working in energy?

Remember the old stats about the auto industry? 1 in 7 jobs in the economy are related to it, something like that? The workers, the people who the workers buy things from, all the bits and pieces purchased to make the car from companies which employ more workers.

I wonder if the number for energy related workers and effects are that high? So more than 10%, using the same base population figured into that old auto calculation?

And will it stop the economic/banking system from stalling when growth becomes a thing of the past?

You assume growth will be a thing of the past. I certainly don't. It is possible that as we transition to a more energy efficient future (regardless of the type of energy we will be using more, or less, of) growth will just keep right on chugging. Or I should say, the normal business cycles will keep on chugging (which means both growth, and occasional non growth) Now, as to how various national currencies fair, because of disastrous decisions made by the talking heads in charge, that is a different problem, and different basis for supposing no growth.

[evilgenius]

I think the dance of fuel prices and the strength of the US economy is very interesting. I too have noticed that as soon as gas prices respond to any improvement in the economy by rising, the economy slows. I suppose this is the new normal in the face of a financial system where the ability to transfer inflationary pressure into the phantasmagorical realm of derivatives has largely become defunct as far as its efficacy to provide relief for the broad spectrum. Dollar hegemony spreads the pain around the world, and punishes the hanger ons moreso than any others involved in the oil as a basis for an economy game. The same failure of the secondary (derivative) economy has also had adverse effects upon the ability of the Government Actors to inflate anything in terms of the economy. While it is true that there has been de facto inflation for anybody who now has to live on either a lower wage or some kind of benefits, there hasn't really been much inflation across the broad spectrum. That is the rich have not experienced inflation while the poor have! Sadly, rentier conditions practically guarantee that economic decision making will not take place on the part of the poor. What the rich need in terms of decision making is what will hold. What the rich need leads us to where we are now.

As the satellite (non-Middle East/OPEC) fields begin to decrease output the interest of the world (the rich) will necessarily fall on those states with huge reserves. I would argue they have been falling on the Arab world for some time. What is now coming to a head in Syria is not happening in a vacuum. It is happening in the context described above. Worse than Syria is what the battle there portends, a great strife between the Shia and Sunni Muslims. More dangerous for the interests of the world along these lines is what could happen in Iraq, given its split between those involved. Are the rich so committed to the Sunni side as to commit to it during a regional war? Are they as equally committed to Israel? For that matter, does Israel realize that at least some of the pressure mounting on them to attack Iran is coming from this tense field of interests, so that the Sunnis do not have to act directly, but can reap the benefits of Israel's actions? Further still, how painful will it be for the West to sit still and watch minority interests in places like Saudi Arabia get the stuffing knocked out of them? Will it cause any greater reaction than what has happened in the wake of the problems in Bahrain?