[aadbrd]

One is then left with no choice but to go back to communing once again with real people.

Wishful thinking, especially so in the midst of the pandemic.

I do think the world would be better off without Twitter or Twitter-like sites. I think that form of drive-by discourse in particular is the most corrosive to society, whether it's proud boys planning attacks or SJW cancel-culture pogroms.

[jedrider]

One is then left with no choice but to go back to communing once again with real people.

Wishful thinking, especially so in the midst of the pandemic.

I do think the world would be better off without Twitter or Twitter-like sites. I think that form of drive-by discourse in particular is the most corrosive to society, whether it's proud boys planning attacks or SJW cancel-culture pogroms.

The Qanon, Right-Wing Revolution current meme is 'Where to go, which site?' as this is being flooded on right wing chat right now. Their oxygen is being cut off and they are gasping for breath, as they also fill the bit drivel with their desperation.

I think that bit-suffocation is the right tactic to use right now.

[Ibon]

One is then left with no choice but to go back to communing once again with real people.

Wishful thinking, especially so in the midst of the pandemic.

I do think the world would be better off without Twitter or Twitter-like sites. I think that form of drive-by discourse in particular is the most corrosive to society, whether it's proud boys planning attacks or SJW cancel-culture pogroms.

The Qanon, Right-Wing Revolution current meme is 'Where to go, which site?' as this is being flooded on right wing chat right now. Their oxygen is being cut off and they are gasping for breath, as they also fill the bit drivel with their desperation.

It is not that hard to fix this problem! I think the lesson here is that unbridled freedom of speech is as bad as unbridled capitalism or unbridled gun rights etc. etc.

The generation emerging into power is paying attention and their desire for collectivism will be willing to sacrifice a bit of "personal freedom" in order to have a sustainable and cohesive society.

My one daughter a couple months ago sent me a concerned message that my baby boomer generation is very vulnerable to social media since we were all born before the internet and don't have the sophistication to interact with it. She says her generation is a lot more savvy about fake news and all that. She might be right.

[Plantagenet]

The generation emerging into power is paying attention and their desire for collectivism will be willing to sacrifice a bit of "personal freedom" in order to have a sustainable and cohesive society.

A very good point.

A problem arises however, because while the emerging generation is doing a good job of diminishing people's "personal freedoms", there is no indication that they are taking us towards a "sustainable and cohesive society."

Quite the opposite is occurring, IMHO. We are going to wind up losing both personal freedoms AND the comfortable, open society that we all have enjoyed in the US.

And as far as being sustainable........I don't see any sign of that either. For instance take EVs, which are supposed to address the climate change problem. Everyone conveniently forgets that the MANUFACTURING of EVs emits far more CO2 then the manufacturing of ICE cars, so a massive switch to EVs will actually result in MORE CO2 emissions.

The problem with the millennial getting rid of free speech and only permitting speech that is politically correct, is that no one group or party has a monopoly on the truth. And the only way to get to the truth is to have open and free discourse......which is just what the "woke" millennials won't allow. First free speech was muzzled on campus, and now we see that trend spreading in our larger society. And its a bad thing.


Where's the campus free speech movement when you need it?

Cheers!

[Pops]

Ibon, I think your daughter is probably right about oldsters. But I think her confidence in her own wisdom and immunity from manipulation is just as worrisome if not more so because she likely gets ALL her info from social media. If she is interacting with AI based internet anyway. 60% of millennials get their news from social media, and guess what? AI based media give you more of what you interact with so there isn't really any "new" news — the model is to keep you engaged so they can serve another ad so they stick with what you "like."

You've undoubtedly read of the "self-radicalised " terrorist. But they aren't really self radicalized are they? The gain their belief at the urgings of influential voices in whatever media. Whether it is some dark web jihadi site or facebook or RT or Limbaugh or 4chan.

The lady who was killed at the Capitol was "self-radicalized" via Qanon, facebook, twitter, etc. She likely saw a meme that struck a nerve, she engaged with it (to use Zuckerberg's terminology) and it was Bloop! down the old rabbit hole she went.

I personally have convinced myself to buy several bags of beans behind stuff I've read online..

People tend to believe what their friends say. Once you find a set of like minded individuals, you start to think of them as your friends and you tend to believe what they say or at least listen to their version of reality. The fault with sites such as this one but especially the big algorithm driven ones, is you can find someone out there who believes whatever crazy shit you can come up with.

This type of forum is different that the AI driven forums. Here you see some ads from the typical google ad server, pretty targeted depending on your settings but obviously ads. On facebook the content itself is targeted to increase engagement, the more clicks/likes/time spent, the more you are served similar content. When you view this page you may get a personalized ad off to the side—when you view a FB page you get something totally unique, tailored just for you, with not only ads but content to keep your attention.

[jedrider]

My one daughter a couple months ago sent me a concerned message that my baby boomer generation is very vulnerable to social media since we were all born before the internet and don't have the sophistication to interact with it. She says her generation is a lot more savvy about fake news and all that. She might be right.

She's wrong, I'm sorry to say.

I think it requires vigilance and a good mental algorithm. She's already chosen the right side, so you should be proud.

It's a common misperception of the young that the problems of the past remain solely in the past.

[aadbrd]

Just as COVID flourishes because we seem incapable of the restraint and discipline required to prevent it, the same is true of our BS immune system. You can go all the way back to how the public panicked over the War of the Worlds radio drama to see how this can play out--and in that case they were periodically broadcasting a disclaimer! People just aren't that smart. Today things have just taken more of a meta- turn insofar as there is a general awareness that propaganda is a thing and yet propagandists these days play upon this sense of awareness to make false accusations (the They Live narratives). So you have people being convinced by the propagandists of disbelieving any facts on the basis that any and all official information is actually propaganda.

It's similar to how HIV attacks the immune system itself. That's the way this operates. Once your BS immune system is disabled, you're toast.

I find it frustrating that people seem all too willing to believe that there is a vast conspiracy to steal the election but those same people seem to disregard the possibility that making such claims in the first place could be the real conspiracy. It's like people just can't think that many moves ahead on the chessboard, especially if it means coming to an unpleasant (but much simpler) conclusion that your guy lost. I also think that once you accept the first lie it becomes easier and easier to accept more lies to the point where you really will be thinking nobody landed on the moon and the earth is flat. It is the pathway to madness, like rabies.

[Ibon]

My daughter was warning me about all the algorithms and big tech manipulations long before Netflix came out with that Social Dilemma documentary. She lives in the Bay area and one of her roomates is a coder for a big tech company. My daughters work is as an event planner and she has been before Covid19 responsible for many big tech corporate events there. Her peer group is actually quite savvy about what we are discussing here, certainly this has to do with where she lives and her exposure to folks deep in the nuts and bolts of big tech.

In some ways it is interesting that only in the past year or so have we been exposed more to documentaries and information regarding the mechanisms big tech uses to socially engineer and manipulate users through the use of algorithms etc. The fact that this has surfaced combined with government increasingly wanting to regulate Facebook, Twitter, Youtube, Google as monopolies is also interesting. And now the riots on the capital instigated in part by social media and the recognition of the population being vulnerable to conspiracies etc. All of this has been converging together recently and certainly this is drawing attention to the need to regulate social media.

When you see how out of control a significant percentage of the American population is to social media manipulations you then have to ask yourself, do you prefer regulated by government or things to remain completely unregulated by big Tech and the ability of nefarious QAnon type memes to spread.

This debate about the governments role in regulation is going to be a hot topic.

China doesn't really have this issue. Is that where we are heading?

How many more similar unhinged events like the raid on the capital have to happen before government regulation of social media becomes inevitable?

What Aadbird just mentioned about folks having lost their BS meter. Society is unhinged and it is only a question of time when managing the narratives and memes out their in cyber land will have to fall under some regulation. It's coming.

Personally I practice this by budgeting how much time I spend engaged in on line activities. Many folks do not have the rich and varied organic lives that tug on them throughout the day so they stay stuck in cyber bullshit reality.

The story of the woman who got shot during the raid. Yes, her BS meter was severely broken and she has a lot of company.

[Pops]

Here's an interesting story:

Treasury Department sanctions inner circle of Russian agent Derkach for election interferenceThe Treasury Department on Monday announced sanctions aimed at disrupting a Russia-linked influence network associated with Andrii Derkach, a marginalized Ukrainian politician with close ties to President Trump’s personal attorney Rudy Giuliani.

Giuliani, Trump’s top operator in efforts to overturn the election, had met with Derkach in December 2019 to discuss investigating the Biden family and the two appeared together on the pro-Trump news channel One America News Network, where they pushed debunked theories of corruption involving Biden and his son Hunter Biden.
...
The sanctions announced Monday target seven individuals and four entities related to Derkach’s inner circle. Secretary of State Mike Pompeo said in a statement that they are blacklisted for repeating “malicious narratives that U.S. Government officials have engaged in corrupt dealings in Ukraine.”

This seems really strange. Minuchin and Pompeo both famous brown nosers of trump, personally and publicly endorsed these sanctions of Russians for cooperating with the president's personal attorney in an attempt to corrupt our election.

What am I missing?

[jedrider]

Here's an interesting story:

Treasury Department sanctions inner circle of Russian agent Derkach for election interferenceThe Treasury Department on Monday announced sanctions aimed at disrupting a Russia-linked influence network associated with Andrii Derkach, a marginalized Ukrainian politician with close ties to President Trump’s personal attorney Rudy Giuliani.

Giuliani, Trump’s top operator in efforts to overturn the election, had met with Derkach in December 2019 to discuss investigating the Biden family and the two appeared together on the pro-Trump news channel One America News Network, where they pushed debunked theories of corruption involving Biden and his son Hunter Biden.
...
The sanctions announced Monday target seven individuals and four entities related to Derkach’s inner circle. Secretary of State Mike Pompeo said in a statement that they are blacklisted for repeating “malicious narratives that U.S. Government officials have engaged in corrupt dealings in Ukraine.”

This seems really strange. Minuchin and Pompeo both famous brown nosers of trump, personally and publicly endorsed these sanctions of Russians for cooperating with the president's personal attorney in an attempt to corrupt our election.

What am I missing?

The sad thing, is that this is really turning into a conspiracy that Republicans are desperately trying to sweep under the rug. I like Ibon's idea that this should just become a routine law enforcement exercise. However, a lot of big toes must be stepped on for that to happen and if it is allowed to proceed as well there will be cries of 'Democratic Reprisal'. Can't have your cake and eat it, too, I guess.

[dohboi]

Pops wrote: "...why this is just beginning..."

Just popping in to agree with Pops again.

As I wrote on the civil war thread, the 6th was likely just a dress rehearsal. Trump may well be using his platform at Alamo, TX today to call on his most violent and racist supporters (who, as you recall, he told to 'stand by'...for what??--THIS) to start their violent insurrection in earnest and at every state capitol. Security folks have been warning about this, but he's not going to wait till Inauguration Day, methinks.

I sure hope I'm wrong about this, but I am quite afraid that I am not.

Please all, be as safe as you can manage in the mayhem to come. And may Whoever May Be Out There have mercy on all those here and elsewhere who helped enable this chaos...

:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::

Pops also wrote: "badass Jesus"

This actually has a long tradition, going back at least to the 9th century Old Saxon alliterative poem Heliand ('Savior') that portrays Jesus as a Schwartzenegger-like Germanic hero. (see wiki for details)

[jedrider]

Mitch McConnel is the least stupid person in Congress. A bastard, definitely. This is his chance to finish off Trump and claim the mantel of the Republican Party.

I think he can do it.

[aadbrd]

Closure will be elusive. Trump will pull the pardon card and this drama will keep being drawn out ad nauseum.

[jedrider]

Hitler invaded Russia.

Trump invaded the U.S. Capitol.

This is what happens to megalomaniacs (and to Trump's family as well in this case).

Trump's Brand is now associated with lawlessness, violence, insurrection and hatred
https://www.msnbc.com/opinion/trump-spent-four-years-destroying-two-brands-his-own-gop-n1254189?icid=msd_topgrid

[Pops]

Seems I'm pushing the NYT today, an opinion piece by David Brooks is pretty crazy:

“Over the last 72 hours, I have received multiple death threats and thousands upon thousands of emails from Christians saying the nastiest and most vulgar things I have ever heard toward my family and ministry. I have been labeled a coward, sellout, a traitor to the Holy Spirit, and cussed out at least 500 times.”

This is the beginning of a Facebook post from Sunday by the conservative preacher Jeremiah Johnson. On Jan. 7, the day after the storming of the Capitol, Johnson had issued a public apology, asserting that God removed Donald Trump from office because of his pride and arrogance, and to humble those, like Johnson, who had fervently supported him.

The response was swift and vicious. As he put it in that later Facebook post, “I have been flabbergasted at the barrage of continued conspiracy theories being sent every minute our way and the pure hatred being unleashed. To my great heartache, I’m convinced parts of the prophetic/charismatic movement are far SICKER than I could have ever dreamed of.”

I'm far removed from any church, white evangelical/charismatic especially but Brooks sounds like his heads on fire and his ass is catching. "The violent Know-Nothingism, which has always coursed through American history, is once again a torrent, threatening more violence in the days ahead."

You'll notice that here too the pastor was attacked on facebook. There is an element in all of this of performance. trump does it constantly, looking for the perfect selfie, the perfect 140 characters. Everyone is secretly angling to become an "influencer" — the people attacking the pastor want to be seen as "very special people".

Remember when we all just wanted to be cooler online? (don't forget to give him a Like)
.

[aadbrd]

Regarding evangelicals, remember that Pat Robertson was wise enough to get off the Trump train before the riots.

I think remaining support for Trump at this point is driven more by a need to clutch at a savior figure to rescue them from the apocalyptic boogeyman that the right have successfully erected of the left than any endorsement of Trump himself. That's always been the case but it's more true than ever now. I have to believe that if they had someone who could actually walk the talk of self righteousness they'd much rather support him.

There is a golden opportunity for someone to step forward, and this person would be a far more formidable threat in 2024.

[Ibon]

There is a golden opportunity for someone to step forward, and this person would be a far more formidable threat in 2024.

Liten to the podcast of the interview with Peter Meijer, Republican from Michigan. I posted the link on the civil war thread. That could the enlightened future of the Republican Party. I sure do hope so!

A guy like that could get my vote.

[jedrider]

Melania Trump's disappointing break with tradition

Understandably lost in the morass of the horrifying things that have happened leading up to Joe Biden's inauguration is something that did not happen. Melania Trump will become the first modern first lady not to invite the woman who will replace her to the White House for a walk-through of the private living quarters on the second and third floors.

Sore losers. The whole family.

[jedrider]

Trump: Don't let the door kick you on the way out. (I mean I hope it does, all the way to Florida and, maybe beyond. He should just buy an Island somewhere.)

China Debuts First 7nm Data Center GPU To Rival Nvidia, AMD
https://www.tomshardware.com/news/china-debuts-first-7nm-data-center-gpu-rival-nvidia-amd

It's unfortunate how China dealt with Hong Kong. It's unfortunate how Trump dealt with the Capitol Electoral College certification.

A new chapter unfurls. Got to be better than the last.

[Ibon]

Pompeo on Twitter trying to pick up the mantle of Trump........ what a pathetic slime ball... he actually thinks this will work?

https://edition.cnn.com/2021/01/19/poli ... index.html


Washington (CNN)With one day left in his tenure, Secretary of State Mike Pompeo took to his taxpayer-funded Twitter account and denounced multiculturalism, saying it is "not who America is."