[Graeme]

Nonsense. I've already demonstrated that vertical farms are still developing. You just won't accept this.

[Graeme]

As I've already stated, the number of farms will continue to grow. Deal with it. Your constant negativity won't stop this growth. Nobody will take any notice of you.

[Graeme]

Bring on the positive ideas. They are in short supply here on this forum. Vertical farms and sustainable cities are vital developments for the future of humans living on this planet. I will continue to look out for new research by people actually working on and publishing about these topics.

[onlooker]

Dohboi,

You are making good points.

The point, that's what the rest of the world is for, is misguided. We are running out of that "rest of the world". There is no space left between Boston and DC that is not part of a 1,000,000 city.

While this may have been a great idea 100 years ago, that time is past. The suburban land defiled, our valleys paved over.

Human civilization is in late middle age to early old age. The time of our great agility is past. Our crops sown. Winter approaches.

I think Newfie is making a great point here. Whatever organization we proceed with does not and cannot address the underlying fact that 7 billion people are living on this planet with the help of soon to be scarce fossil fuels and with a planet that is already damaged. Look at Mexico D.F. it is sort of considered a city but it is overcrowded and stretches far and wide. 7 billion also means waste management, public accomodations, hospitals, schools etc. We are already utilizing cities, more then half the population of the world now lives in cities. Look at the squalor of many of these so-called cities. Renovation, modernization of slums, ghettos, favelas, creation of new ones ha, gimme a break. This reminds of the Titanic and rearranging chairs on the decks while the ship was sinking. No amount of clever organization can obscure the fact of 7 billion people living on a planet, running out of fresh water and fossil fuels. Not to mention the impact of 7 billion of us continuing to live or wishing to live a "modern" lifestyle.

[onlooker]

I guess it is a b***h to see reality. See no evil, hear no evil, speak no evil.

[onlooker]

cannot spell it out it is profanity ! hint it rhymes with snitch

[dohboi]

These schemes remind me of an old cartoon where the characters were floating in a bathtub at sea and water was swamping the vessel. So they stuck a shower into the hole, turned it around, and presto! They had a motor boat!

It all makes sense in cartoon world or fantasy land. But the physics just don't add up in the real world, especially one with diminishing energy resources. Of course, one could say that the entirety of high-input commercial ag is much the same--is it ten calories of energy on average put into that system for every food calorie produced? (Much more nearly calorie-free things like iceberg lettuce, of course.)

For the record, I think it's a wonderful thing for an urban dweller in a high rise to have plants on their porches and windows, food bearing or not. As long as they don't think they are solving world hunger with them.

(And, as one of the more egregious former violators of the policy, I consider it my prudish duty to point out: profanity-t70521.html)

[onlooker]

So Dohboi, did I violate this policy, as I did not spell out word

[Tanada]

You are in compliance with the COC.

[onlooker]

thanks Tanada, i will be more circumspect in the future.

[dohboi]

Sorry, o. That parenthetic 'tsk' was aimed at p.

[onlooker]

Guess we should all try to tone it down haha, I think we all at times would like to interject some emotion into our arguments makes them more evocative. Oh and Dohboi, no need to be sorry, in fact I took it as a favor in warning me.

[ennui2]

Food is still cheap, which is why we're all so fat rather than dying of starvation. I don't think it will always be that way, but we have a very very long way to go down before we start banding together like Power of Community.

[onlooker]

Ennui, that could be true, but along the way down we will receive some real jolts and certain areas such as Africa, Middle East and Asia will be more in peril then others.

[dohboi]

An estimated 14.3 percent of American households were food insecure at least some time during the year in 2013

http://www.ers.usda.gov/publications/er ... rr173.aspx

My daughter helped start a food shelf and community garden in her high school because she saw so many poorly nourished and ill fed kids coming to school every day.

Yes, sometimes relatively cheap food means people are getting a lot of calories without enough other nutrients. But there is also a good deal of straight out malnourishment, yes, even in the US of A.