[Outcast_Searcher]

Read my post 6? Too complicated for you? No wonder people tire of your rambling. Whatever doesn't sit with your unicorn theory you just ignore or go off on a strawman tangent.

+1

Opinions are one thing. Endlessly arguing the same thing, repeating the same illogical, emotional talking points, backed up by MUCH rambling, just isn't credible after awhile.

[C8]

SS: (an unfortunate set of initials)

So what's that supposed to mean, it's fascist to just think the minimum wage ought to be the 1974 equivalent?.

SixStrings- it was just a light joke- please chill.

The more govt. interferes with the market the WORSE it is for the poor. Noting gives the poor power than free markets b/c everybody's' cash is welcome- McDonald's serves the poor, cable companies also. Free markets and wages also allow the poor to start their own businesses and get ahead based on hard work and merit- not middle class connections (which they don't have).

The more you have the govt. interfere and distort the market, the worse it will be for the poor. We need capitalism in COSTS (housing, medical care, education, energy, etc) not govt. control of wages.

You are just filling a bucket with a hole in it. Why not campaign for low income housing? If rent goes down by half that helps every poor person- not just those that have min. wage jobs.

[Outcast_Searcher]

SS: (an unfortunate set of initials)

So what's that supposed to mean, it's fascist to just think the minimum wage ought to be the 1974 equivalent?.

SixStrings- it was just a light joke- please chill.

The more govt. interferes with the market the WORSE it is for the poor. Noting gives the poor power than free markets b/c everybody's' cash is welcome- McDonald's serves the poor, cable companies also. Free markets and wages also allow the poor to start their own businesses and get ahead based on hard work and merit- not middle class connections (which they don't have).

The more you have the govt. interfere and distort the market, the worse it will be for the poor. We need capitalism in COSTS (housing, medical care, education, energy, etc) not govt. control of wages.

You are just filling a bucket with a hole in it. Why not campaign for low income housing? If rent goes down by half that helps every poor person- not just those that have min. wage jobs.

Right. Or alternatively, increase the earned income credit. That way you don't screw up businesses OR cause more unemployment, accelerate the development of job-destroying automation (by greatly increasing the financial incentive, etc).

This is an argument that I've seen made by quite a few conservative (on economics) posters. But no, Six just ignores all that, since he's totally enamored with a $15 minimum wage, and to hell with all the negative consequences. (Of course, that's easy if you just pretend there are NO negative consequences as the far left does).

[Sixstrings]

Some more minimum wage news.

Russia's doing a 20% minimum wage raise this year, after already raising it 4% earlier this year:

Russians are finally getting some good news. Minimum wage is going up by 20%.
Russia's Prime Minister Dmitry Medvedev said pay for low wage workers will go up to 7,500 rubles a month ($109) in July, from the current 6,204 rubles a month ($90).

It will be the second raise this year after a 4% raise in January.

"The difference between the minimum wage and the cost of living remains quite high ... people are worried," Medvedev said last week in a speech at the United Russia party conference.
http://money.cnn.com/2016/03/29/news/economy/russia-minimum-wage/

Apparently Britain has a legal minimum wage but then also a suggested living wage, and a lot of companies are choosing to voluntarily pay the living wage:

The rebranded minimum wage is still not enough to live on

The new national living wage has had an unexpected consequence: more companies signing up to pay a higher wage that reflects the true cost of living ...

when it comes to employers some want to aim higher than mere legal compliance. In part that’s because it feels like the right thing to do for their workforce, but also because it brings direct business benefits in the form of reduced staff turnover and greater employee commitment.
http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/mar/30/osbornes-national-living-wage-minimum-wage

Peru raises their minimum wage by 13%:

Peruvian President Ollanta Humala authorized a 13 percent increase in the minimum wage, stealing the thunder of presidential candidates who promised a raise as part of their campaigns.
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-03-30/humala-raises-minimum-wage-as-peru-prepares-to-elect-successor

A Democratic US senate candidate in Florida is campaigning on $15 federal minimum wage plus pegging it to inflation:

Democratic U.S. Rep. Patrick Murphy says if he's elected, he would be only the second Certified Public Accountant ever to serve in the U.S. Senate, and he sounded a lot like a CPA Thursday as he rolled out what he says is a path to economic recovery.

Murphy listed what he called four priorities for creating "a positive environment for job growth and expanding America's middle class in Florida":

-- Reducing what he called "the growing gap" between rich and poor. He called for fair pay for both genders and for fair leave polices. And he upped his long-time, general support of raising the minimum wage, but with a twist.

In an article written for The Palm Beach Post in September he supported an increase to $12 an hour, but on Thursday he said he supported a $15 an hour minimum wage that should be done in stages and should be indexed to inflation. Had the minimum wage been tied to inflation in the 1970s, it now would be at about $26, Murphy said.
http://www.cpapracticeadvisor.com/news/12187273/florida-senator-pushes-15-minimum-wage

[Sixstrings]

Or alternatively, increase the earned income credit. That way you don't screw up businesses OR cause more unemployment, accelerate the development of job-destroying automation (by greatly increasing the financial incentive, etc).

Increasing the earned income credit (it wasn't much money, something like $100 more per year if I recall) was in Jeb Bush's plan. And is in Clinton's plan.

The major problem with the earned income credit is that really it is transferring the cost of business onto government, and government won't tax business or the rich either, so it's just debt spending -- and conservatives don't like that either.

Philosophically, I don't think business cost -- the cost of their employees' wages -- should be put onto the government to pay it. It's business that should pay their workers, not deficit debt spending from the federal gov.

Secondly, earned income credit doesn't benefit single childless workers, so that's not really fair. And it's just illogical to go down that road, the federal government sending checks out to workers because their employers do not pay them.

This is an argument that I've seen made by quite a few conservative (on economics) posters. But no, Six just ignores all that, since he's totally enamored with a $15 minimum wage, and to hell with all the negative consequences. (Of course, that's easy if you just pretend there are NO negative consequences as the far left does).

I'm not enamored with it, but the labor movement got smart and they got specific and came up with a number: fifteen dollars. It worked. They kept saying fifteen dollars over and over, and so that's the number the politicians are agreeing to now.

They called their movement "fight for 15," not "raise our wages." If it was just "raise our wages" then that could have been fifty cents (which is what it will be anyway for the first two years, fifty cents per year).

But anyhow, it was strategically smart, making a generalized issue ("raising minimum wage") a specific concrete thing, "fifteen dollars an hour."

P.S. But I'm not criticizing the earned income credit, anything that helps is a good idea. What is it, $4,000 a year or $6,000 a year? If a worker has two kids?

The problem though is, what about single men and childless younger workers, and older workers with grown children. They deserve something close to a living wage, too.

I'm not completely sure about the earned income credit by the way, someone correct me if I'm wrong on how that works. (I don't work for low wage and I don't have kids)

[SeaGypsy]

In Aus it's called family tax benefit. With 2 kids under 7 here we get about $220 a week, equivalent to a tax churn, starts cutting down at $65kpa & ends at around $150kpa. Besides free medical, dental school program, free public education to year 12 & 80-90% funded first degrees.

But we have only 25 million on not a lot less land than the US lower 48 with 300+ million.

[Sixstrings]

Well, it's almost official. It passed through the California house and senate pretty quick.

The bill's now on its way to Governor Brown's desk, so it's a done thing at this point:

The Latest: California lawmakers OK highest minimum wage

The legislation passed Thursday now goes to Gov. Jerry Brown, who is expected to sign it into law after previously working out the plan with labor unions.

Democrats who control both legislative chambers hailed the increase as a boon to more than 2 million of California’s poorest workers and an example to the nation as it struggles with a growing gap between rich and poor.
http://www.sfgate.com/politics/article/Calif-assembly-passes-15-minimum-wage-bill-7220668.php#item-44548

Here's how bad things are in Republican governed red states, Louisiana legislature is finally raising theirs to $8.50:

Over objections from business groups, the Senate labor committee voted 4-3 Thursday to raise Louisiana's minimum wage from the $7.25 per hour federal level to $8 in 2017 and $8.50 a year later.

“We have a real chance to make a real difference in the lives of families and children all across Louisiana by raising the minimum wage,” said Governor John Bel Edwards. “When our families do better, our state does better." ...

Helping folks who are working hard every day, but can barely make ends meet at the end of the month because their pay is so low, is something that we can absolutely change.”
http://www.wdsu.com/news/local-news/new-orleans/minimum-wage-equal-pay-bills-begin-advancing-in-la-senate/38784652

An extra dollar makes a difference, but an extra seven dollars makes a bigger difference.

Clinton's not for the $15 minimum wage, and hasn't indicated she'd make $12 a priority any more than Obama did (he mentioned it too, eight years ago and in every state of the union speech, but it was never a priority for him).. but anyhow, Clinton has been mentioning a couple minor reforms related to min wage:

Hillary Clinton wants to end the loophole that lets disabled workers earn less than minimum wage

Most Americans don’t even know this loophole exists, but it has been leaving disabled workers to toil in poverty for decades, and disability rights advocates like myself have made repeal a major priority for years.

Clinton pledged to close it:

"When it comes to jobs, we've got to figure out how we get the minimum wage up and include people with disabilities in the minimum wage. There should not be a tiered wage, and right now there is a tiered wage when it comes to facilities that do provide opportunities but not at a self-sufficient wage that enables people to gain a degree of independence as far as they can go.

So I want us to take a hard look at raising the minimum wage and ending the tiered minimum wages, whether it's for people with disabilities or the tipped wage."
http://www.vox.com/2016/3/31/11337758/clinton-disability-minimum-wage

What she's talking about there is essentially raising the current less-than-minimum wage, for disabled workers.

She's also come out in favor of ending the less-than-minimum wage for tipped employees.

That's already been done in a couple states, and poverty rates among waitstaff were halved.

So that's a big deal to servers; getting the full min wage and then tips too.