[onlooker]

g

[rockdoc123]

All of the the EU and Labour, LIb dem, SNP they can do nothing now.

don't think so. The SNP still has options, one of which is another referendum and given the way they voted wrt Brexit I think this time it will be different.

[dolanbaker]

All of the the EU and Labour, LIb dem, SNP they can do nothing now.

don't think so. The SNP still has options, one of which is another referendum and given the way they voted wrt Brexit I think this time it will be different.

Scotland cannot hold a referendum without Westminster's approval, their chances of getting that are slim to none.

[rockdoc123]

I guess we will find out. The SNP argument that is backed up by some legal opinion is that the Brexit vote effectively changed the situation that Scotland voted for in the referendum. Hence there should be another referendum based on the idea that you are agreeing to stay in a Britain that is distinctly different from an economic standpoint than in 2014. Sturgeon may choose to find this in court. I've had to sit in a couple of corporate action trials in London and based on that I wouldn't predict the outcome.

But enjoy your extra 20% or so for a bottle of cheap French plonk. You can always give up the Camembert for Stilton.
Will be interesting to see which companies who still manufacturer some of their brands in England (eg: Tata's Land Rover line at Solihull; BMW's mini line at Swindon) will decide to pack up and produce all of their vehicles (Land Rover, Bentley, Mini, Aston Martin) in Europe or elsewhere where tariffs and taxes might be more attractive. I guess you can always get in line and wait 5 years for a Morgan.

[Outcast_Searcher]

Will be interesting to see which companies who still manufacturer some of their brands in England (eg: Tata's Land Rover line at Solihull; BMW's mini line at Swindon) will decide to pack up and produce all of their vehicles (Land Rover, Bentley, Mini, Aston Martin) in Europe or elsewhere where tariffs and taxes might be more attractive. I guess you can always get in line and wait 5 years for a Morgan.

Yeah, that's a good point. As soon as corporate board rooms believe the negative tax situation will last more than, say, a few years or more, suddenly the effort/cost to pack up and move doesn't look so bad.

Obviously, for industries with little infrastructure compared to giant car factories and their supply lines, etc. moving could be much easier, but heavy industry might be in a "wait and see" mode for a while.

Naturally, no matter how bad it gets, the "leave" folks will claim it's all for the best regardless. That's how politics works.

[FLAMEOUT]

Lots of English haters on here - we're used to it. Naff Off !!!!

Are we English bothered - Hell NO - bring Brexit on - two weeks to go and we are FREE !!

The Scots can bugger off if they so wish - AND the English money tap will then stop. Will their beloved EU prop them up afterwards - we will see - !!

Two weeks to Freedom

It will be like 1939 - but the bastards over the water to the east won't be bombing us this time (unless they want a trident nuke up their arse) !!

[vtsnowedin]

Will be interesting to see which companies who still manufacturer some of their brands in England (eg: Tata's Land Rover line at Solihull; BMW's mini line at Swindon) will decide to pack up and produce all of their vehicles (Land Rover, Bentley, Mini, Aston Martin) in Europe or elsewhere where tariffs and taxes might be more attractive. I guess you can always get in line and wait 5 years for a Morgan.

[/quote]
I fail to see why the Tories would impose taxes that were not at competitive rates with the EU and the rest of the world. You can't tax the profits if there are no profits to tax. The liberals often don't understand this but I'd be surprised if your Tories do not.

[Outcast_Searcher]

Lots of English haters on here - we're used to it. Naff Off !!!!

Are we English bothered - Hell NO - bring Brexit on - two weeks to go and we are FREE !!

The Scots can bugger off if they so wish - AND the English money tap will then stop. Will their beloved EU prop them up afterwards - we will see - !!

Two weeks to Freedom

It will be like 1939 - but the bastards over the water to the east won't be bombing us this time (unless they want a trident nuke up their arse) !!

Being a low information voter doesn't mean things work as you assume, but good luck with that.

[Cog]

We have a lot of anti freedom globalists on this board. Brexit should happen and the US can provide all the trade that the UK desires, minus the Islamic immigrant imports.

[FLAMEOUT]

Thankyou Cog, USA / UK trade yes though we keep our NHS as is thankyou.

Watch this woman demolish a Dutch MEP

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cGTUm0Sh-30

[Cog]

You will find Flameout that a lot of members here hate the freedom to choose your national identity and direction. They absolutely despise nationalism. Boris Johnson is a refreshing change of direction.

[rockdoc123]

You will find Flameout that a lot of members here hate the freedom to choose your national identity and direction. They absolutely despise nationalism. Boris Johnson is a refreshing change of direction.

well, there is a problem with that....if the freedom to choose your national identity is important then why block a second referendum in Scotland? Seems contrary to what you think is going on here I think.

Johnson is just another politician with bad hair....mind you the ones with good hair aren't any better.

[FLAMEOUT]

WE ARE NOW FREE !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

And three British songs to celebrate !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f2zJ8vaB5jo

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uRD_gIoVOmY

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZqmC1T9rukk

That's it folks, were out !!. Many fireworks going off in my home town - which voted 63% leave on a 70% turnout back in June 2016.

Best wishes to Europe (the people).

We Brits will survive and prosper. That is both our history and our destiny.

[careinke]

WE ARE NOW FREE !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

And three British songs to celebrate !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f2zJ8vaB5jo

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uRD_gIoVOmY

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZqmC1T9rukk

That's it folks, were out !!. Many fireworks going off in my home town - which voted 63% leave on a 70% turnout back in June 2016.

Best wishes to Europe (the people).

We Brits will survive and prosper. That is both our history and our destiny.

Congratulations!!! Another blow against globalism.

[evilgenius]

Now starts the investigation over who exactly is British enough. All of those who think the door should have been closed after them will take one side. Those with sixteen family members still to get in will take another.

That should be a joke, but it may happen. I think this is actually due to a mishandling of the Middle East situation. The export land model should have been allowed to work its way through the Middle East's oil producing countries, where those countries began to use their own oil to bring about industry which expanded their economies enough to demand better forms of government, and provided for standards of living which would give the populations of those countries something to lose. Eventually, non producing countries in the Muslim World would have followed suit. Pakistan would have come around by now, instead of embracing governmental opacity and tribal primitivism as a means of course. Europe wouldn't have the immigration crisis it has been undergoing for decades now. Many of those who have piggybacked upon the notion of the residual impact of empire would have stayed home. They would be living quite good lives there.

[Subjectivist]

Brexit uncertainty and migration decisions spark brain drain concerns

Brexit has sparked major changes in migration decisions, equivalent to the impact of a serious economic or political crisis, according to a pioneering joint study between the Oxford-in-Berlin research partnership and the WZB Social Sciences Center Berlin.

The study reveals the UK is facing a potential brain drain of highly-educated British citizens, who have decided to invest their futures in continental Europe. Based on OECD and Eurostat data, it shows migration from the UK to EU countries increased by some 30%, compared to pre-Brexit numbers and the number of British citizens obtaining an EU member state passport increased by more than 500% across the Continent, and by more than 2000% in Germany.

The study, authored by Daniel Tetlow of Oxford-in-Berlin and Daniel Auer of WZB, compares changes in migration and naturalisation patterns of migrating UK citizens before and since the Brexit referendum. Their analysis reveals Brexit has been the dominant driver of migration decisions since 2016, by comparison with stable migration flows of other EU nationals over the same period.

According to the study, the numbers of UK citizens obtaining EU member state passports provides evidence that an increasing number of UK immigrants are making long-term migration decisions to protect themselves from some of the negative effects of Brexit.

The study authors maintain that, since 2015, when the Brexit referendum was announced, the UK to EU migration and naturalisation trajectories have diverged dramatically from the norm and the numbers have continued on this trajectory in the subsequent years of observation.

Dr. Auer says, "These increases in numbers are of a magnitude that you would expect when a country is hit by a major economic or political crisis."

Additional study data collected from controlled interviews of British citizens across all 16 German federal states, reveals increased levels of risk-taking and impulsivity to deal with the impact of Brexit. Decisions were also taken and acted upon over a much shorter time period than equivalent decisions made before the Brexit vote. As a result, more than double the number of interviewees, who migrated post-referendum, reported taking a 'big risk' (57% vs 24% pre-Brexit). In addition, the majority of interviewees who migrated post-referendum, agreed either to a pay-cut or a pay freeze as part of their migration decision, when before referendum the majority received a pay rise.

An unexpected outcome of the study, of UK citizens in Germany, was that many have made a greater commitment to integrate or 'socially embed' in their local communities as a direct result of Brexit. The study found in many respondents a commitment to language learning and local community work along with a pride in a new British European identity. Since the referendum, the German government has decided to grant 31,600 British citizens German citizenship while allowing them to maintain their UK identity indefinitely.

"We're observing a new social migration phenomena and a redefining of what it means to be British-European," says Mr Tetlow.

The study concludes, in the last four years, 'collective uncertainty," triggered by Brexit, was and still remains powerful enough to alter migratory behaviour at scales comparable to the impact of a large-scale economic shock.

https://phys.org/news/2020-08-brexit-un ... brain.html

[sparky]

.
Keep in mind that Britain (like Ireland) has a long tradition of emigration

[dolanbaker]

.
Keep in mind that Britain (like Ireland) has a long tradition of emigration

True, but that trend has reversed in recent decades, now the "British" make up only 85% of the population.
There certainly has been some "white flight" within the country and I think with travel restrictions and most other western countries limiting inward migration, not so many will be able to leave.

As for immigration, they're still arriving by the boatload, trailer plus huge numbers are also arriving legally from the Indian subcontinent.
A significant number of these legal arrivals are highly educated as well.

[Tanada]

Brexit: Latest round of UK-EU talks come to an end

The UK and EU are to give updates on efforts to agree a post-Brexit deal following the latest round of talks.

While both sides have previously said a deal is possible, differences remain on issues including fishing rights and post-Brexit competition.

BBC Europe editor Katya Adler says a breakthrough is not expected this week.

The EU has said it would like to agree a deal by October so it can be approved by the European Parliament before the post-Brexit transition period expires.

The transition period ends on 31 December and, if a deal has not been secured by then, the UK would have to trade with the EU on WTO (World Trade Organization) terms.

This means most UK goods would be subject to tariffs until a free trade deal was ready to be brought in.

The UK has said it will not extend talks if an agreement cannot be reached by the December deadline.

UK-EU trade deal some way off, both sides say
What are the sticking points in the trade talks?
What's happening in post-Brexit trade talks?

EU chief negotiator Michel Barnier met his UK counterpart David Frost on Tuesday evening for dinner, and the pair are expected to have breakfast on Friday morning.

The two sides discussed transport, police co-operation, fishing rights and rules on investment.

The Financial Times reported that Brussels had rejected UK demands to allow British truckers wide-ranging access to the EU.

During the last set of talks in July, Mr Barnier said a deal looked "at this point unlikely" because of the UK's position on fishing rights and post-Brexit competition rules, known as "level playing field" provisions.

And Mr Frost acknowledged "considerable gaps" remained in these areas, but added that the EU had shown a "pragmatic approach" over UK demands to limit the role of the European Court of Justice after the transition period ended.

He said he still believed a deal could still be reached in September, but the government must "face the possibility" one would not be struck.

Compromises on both sides are inevitable if a deal is to be struck, but don't expect breakthroughs this week.

For now, much of Europe is still on holiday or dealing with the coronavirus crisis. Boris Johnson is also busy dealing with the fallout from the exams U-turn.

The EU wants a deal, but the keenness for an agreement - even a thin one - doesn't mean they will settle for a deal at any price.

France is jumpy that Michel Barnier may be so keen to be seen to get a deal done with UK this autumn that he "could be tempted to give away too much".

Meanwhile, German Chancellor Angela Merkel repeats over and over that the EU won't agree to anything it believes would damage its single market.

The EU believes Mr Johnson needs to show he can reach a deal, especially after controversy surrounding the government's initial handling of Covid-19.

But the politics of compromise shouldn't be underestimated. Compromise can be found - but if it comes it is likely to be last-minute, around October time.

The EU thinks a deal is still more likely than no deal. But only just.

BBC Report

[sparky]

.
the haggling over Fishing rights is one of those dummies issues
not that it's fake but any opposition could be solved if other more important subjects could be agreed
like .....British banks status in the EU , or the UK payments dues ...you get the picture
up holding the pride and joy of British fishermen is only a presentable reason which can be invoked for any failure in the talks
or alternatively as a price worth paying for a good outcome (to someone else)
the truth is the British government is driving the talks to a quarter to midnight situation
they are certain that the EU team will bend and they are consciously wasting time
to maximize the negotiation value of an agreement and squeeze some extra concessions