[Rod_Cloutier]

Book review: Proof of Heaven by M.D. Eben Alexander III

I saw a lengthy review this week about this book at Review

A change from the usual doom and gloom, this perked my interest and I purchased the book on my Kindle.

Few books, especially non-fiction, are in the 'I can't put down to go to bed' category, this book is one of them. Tuesday and Wednesday this week I stayed up late reading the detailed testimonial of Dr. Eben Alexander, a neurosurgeon who contracted gram negative E. coli meningitis; he was comatose and 'brain dead' for 7 days. Verifiable circumstances confirmed by his medical collegues.

With chances of mortality of 97%, and the likelyhood that if he survived he would likely exist in a permanent vegetative state for the balance of his life, he instead recovered fully with no brain damage and brought back what he believes is proof of life after death; survival of the consciousness after the death of the body.

He has since started 'Eternea' a science research effort to confirm his experiences. A quote from the site:

Eternea consists of a global team of highly respected scientists who all believe that civilization's survival and future well-being is entirely dependent upon the emergence of a completely different worldview, one that properly addresses, in verifiable scientific terms, our collective relationship to each other, the environment, and the universe. The question we are focused upon is "How do we fundamentally change the dominant world view and replace it with a higher level of thinking?"

Achieving new views of reality and, by implication, a sustainable modern civilization requires enlightened efforts to establish a fundamental shift in common perceptions leading to changes in thinking, values, behavior and actions based on the concepts of inter-connectedness, cooperation, and interdependence in all human endeavors. This shift can come about if a significant portion of humankind develops this new awareness and understanding and incorporates them into individual and societal belief systems. Science can support this shift by providing reliable and credible empirical data in support of these premises, which is the task Eternea has accepted as its mission.

Since the 17th century science has been based on the belief that all phenomena are the results of blind but predictable interactions with matter. This orientation has led to a reductionist view of reality and a materialistic focus --- one of consumption, competition, conflict and domination. However, by the end of the 20th century, new scientific evidence has emerged from the field of quantum mechanics and the study of spiritually transformative experiences that render the reductionist view of reality not only untenable but incorrect as well. Instead, a new paradigm is surfacing which places great emphasis on consciousness and its role in the creation of physical reality and on the point of view that reality is a holistic, interconnected matrix and that information, once gained, is never lost and that these concepts are true at a deep and fundamental level of existence.

A very good read; I highly recommend the book!

[SilentRunning]

Book review: Proof of Heaven by M.D. Eben Alexander III

Few books, especially non-fiction, are in the 'I can't put down to go to bed' category, this book is one of them. Tuesday and Wednesday this week I stayed up late reading the detailed testimonial of Dr. Eben Alexander, a neurosurgeon who contracted gram negative E. coli meningitis; he was comatose and 'brain dead' for 7 days. Verifiable circumstances confirmed by his medical collegues.

With chances of mortality of 97%, and the likelyhood that if he survived he would likely exist in a permanent vegetative state for the balance of his life, he instead recovered fully with no brain damage and brought back what he believes is proof of life after death; survival of the consciousness after the death of the body.

A very good read; I highly recommend the book!

I've heard of this book, and I've read Sam Harris' rebuttal to it. Basically, the good doctor's brain wasn't really as shut down as it is claimed, and he also doesn't seem to realize that chemicals produced in the brain when cut off from oxygen supplies - and used to treat disease - can and do produce euphoric dream states exactly as the doctor described.

I used to think it was in everybody's self interest to learn the truth about things like this, and to see the folly of religious notions. Now, however, I think it just possibly may be in everyone's best interests to have the vast majority of the populace firmly clinging to religious notions about an afterlife, so that they will more easily slip into that endless sleep willingly.

[Rod_Cloutier]

Skeptics welcome!

I forgot to add the link to his scientific research effort:

http://www.eternea.org/

[Ibon]

Now, however, I think it just possibly may be in everyone's best interests to have the vast majority of the populace firmly clinging to religious notions about an afterlife, so that they will more easily slip into that endless sleep willingly.

This is a mature position to take in reference to understanding the place of religion in peoples lives.

I may prefer the rationality of atheism and staring into the vastness of the universe and derive a mystical sense of religiosity at contemplating my insignificance.

For many however who need to cope with coming consequences and with the simple conundrum of dealing with being a sentient mortal, it is best to have this blanket of continuity to keep you warm at night.

[evilgenius]

Jesus said more than once that all the law and the prophets could be summed up essentially as, 'love thy neighbor as thy self.' I believe this teaching is relevant to today's complex systems as well. Perhaps now is the time to consider the role of the jokester (Satan, Coyote, Pan, etc) whose immediate role is to ask, 'what is love?' The asking of that question is why there is such a character in all traditions. The question isn't meant to be taken as a fart joke style interruption, or a depressed selfish excuse to deny life and inflict brutality upon ourselves and others, but rather as an opportunity to contemplate change. In the pursuit of conscious interaction with matter the traditions have shown us that answering this question correctly is essential, life affirming and powerful.

[Quinny]

I tend to think Sam's the man in this instance

[PrestonSturges]

Our religious instinct is as real as anger - we don't pretend anger does not exist simply because it s not physical, and people express it in different ways or deny they feel it, but "wrath" is a sin not a manifestation of god. Our religious instinct, like anger, is real and universal and we each interpret it differently. But, unlike anger, we tend to use supernatural explanations.

[Quinny]

When I feel really down I occasionally recite the Lords Prayer. Absolutely insane as I'm an atheist and have no religious beliefs.

[Outcast_Searcher]

I may prefer the rationality of atheism and staring into the vastness of the universe and derive a mystical sense of religiosity at contemplating my insignificance.

For many however who need to cope with coming consequences and with the simple conundrum of dealing with being a sentient mortal, it is best to have this blanket of continuity to keep you warm at night.

Ibon, I hear you loud and clear and in my 50's and relatively healthy, am squarely in your camp.

I have to wonder though -- in 20 or 30 or whatever years -- will I be as sanguine about my fate? Would 99.9% of us be?

I can see the need for religion. I just wish the "religious" would be more willing to be as tolerant to those who prefer to say "no thanks", as they expect others to be for they're desire to do to church and talk to (as far as science can tell) imaginary beings.

[Pretorian]

Today I had an interesting conversation with a believing Christian in my sauna : it didn't matter how many quotes I gave him from the Bible directly , abortion was still very bad.

[evilgenius]

Today I had an interesting conversation with a believing Christian in my sauna : it didn't matter how many quotes I gave him from the Bible directly , abortion was still very bad.

It goes back to, 'what is love?' There is a reason why the Buddha said that duty was the very last thing that a person has to conquer on the path to enlightenment. So too do those in religious traditions have to conquer their own sense of law on the way to understanding that love is the only law. In the apparent conundrum that love presents to the lawful there are essentially two possible paths, one is a sort of rebirth or that of being 'born again' and the other is a sort of doubling down or very strict observance that fulfills every precept yet contains no life. Love does not destroy the law. What it does is put one in touch with the reasons why the law came about in the first place. It is far better, and more forgiving, for those reasons (that law) to be written on one's heart.

[Beery1]

...he instead recovered fully with no brain damage and brought back what he believes is proof of life after death...

LOL! That last part kinda refutes the bit about recovering with no brain damage.

Can I see the 'proof' he brought back? Can I hear it, taste it, smell it, feel it? Can it be measured by any apparatus?

No? Then it's not 'proof'.

We are animals. No matter how much we want to believe Yoda when he babbles "Luminous beings are we, not this crude matter", we're not. We are crude matter:

Domain - Eucarya
Kingdom: Animalia
Phylum: Chordata
Class: Mammalia
Order: Primates
Family: Hominidae
Tribe: Hominini
Genus: Homo
Species: Homo sapiens

Some folks may need to believe in a fantasy sky god who is going to take them to a cloudy utopia after they die, but I don't. I'm an adult - I don't need a comfort blankie. When I die, as my brain gets starved of oxygen, I may indeed experience some lovely visions - I hope I do, but I'm not childish or gullible enough to think that they will represent some kind of heaven.

I mean, it's fricken ridiculous! How can any rational adult living in this century believe in that infantile nonsense? I mean, the idea of Santa Claus and his flying reindeer makes more sense than that. At least Santa supposedly lives in a place that actually exists on Earth.

[lper100km]

If he really had a vision, believes what he supposedly experienced, discovered some universal truth etc., he would have more credibility by simply spreading the word. There’s plenty of opportunity to disseminate information these days.

But no, he inks a book deal on a topic that he knows will ensnare millions who want to believe and will buy this ‘proof’ willingly – making him a superstar on the late night circuit and millions in royalties. He need never practice again. Heaven on earth! > > > > bank

[Ibon]

But no, he inks a book deal on a topic that he knows will ensnare millions who want to believe and will buy this ‘proof’ willingly – making him a superstar on the late night circuit and millions in royalties. He need never practice again. Heaven on earth! > > > > bank

This is firmly consistent with the mind set of 99% of the religious. It almost always has more to do with rationalizing the behaviour of your mortal existence rather than any genuine curiousity of what happens when you die.

The genuinely curious have no stakes in the game beyond an unknowable open mind to what may or maynot come. It is only those firmly planted in the desires of sentient life who cling so dogmatically to a belief in the life hereafter. The source of this is cowardice and insecurity. The same source that by the way also searches fortune.

[Ibon]

I have to wonder though -- in 20 or 30 or whatever years -- will I be as sanguine about my fate? Would 99.9% of us be?

My father, 86 years old, born in a menonite community in eastern Pennsylviania, went to WWII and married my mother, an italian from Rome. My mothers irreverance to religion turned my dear old dad into an atheist.

He just had open heart surgery and while recovering the minister of the Adventist hospital came to see him. My dad, unable to censor himself because of his anesthesia that made him loopy, said to the minister......" Do you know the greatest thing I did for my children?" The minister said What? My dad replied, "I dumped Jesus"

This is anecdotal evidence that even at the end your atheism can stand the test of whatever fears come up over ones mortality.

I am not as dogmatically atheistic as my father who had to deal with the prudish repression of his rural religious childhood.

So much is unknowable. Why not carry the unkowable as an open inquiry of mystery when pondering such questions. Why take a stand either way?

[Ibon]

I tend to think Sam's the man in this instance

I also agree with Sam mostly, and his rebuttal was quite brilliant. I am not sure however the pursuit of trying to bring secular atheism as an enlightened goal for the mass of humanity.

I think this is putting the cart before the horse. You don't first become a secular atheist and then liberate yourself. You first liberate yourself and then you become a secular atheist. Only a small percentage of humans will acheive freedom of religion and dogma. I include the dogmatic atheists like my father in the same camp as the religious. His atheism is not born from a fresh inquiry into the mystery of life but rather reactionary to his religious background. This makes him as unyielding as any of the religious, just as fixed.

It is not easy to hang in the unknown and let yourself be comfortable there.

[Plantagenet]

I find religious ideas, architecture and ceremonies of all kinds to be very interesting. When I went to Lhasa in Tibet I visited Tibetan Bhuddist shrines and in Rome I went to St. Peters and even better the older St. Pauls Cathedral and best of all the ancient Roman Pantheon, in Machu Pichu I felt the vibe at the hitching post of the sun, in Athens I visited Athena at her house on the Acropolis and in Jerusalem I borrowed a yamulke from the orothodox jews and visited the Wailing Wall, talked to the good fathers standing watch by Jesus tomb in the Church of the Holy Sepulchure and avoided the friday afternoon Islamic riots while visiting the Temple of the Rock.

I'm basically an atheist, but I can see there are many reasons---not all of them logical---why most people are religious and many different kinds of religions that don't have all that much in common except a belief in supernatural beings.


Rumor has it god is one of the posters at peakoil.com

[vision-master]

Ten Commandments


Write down these words, because on these word I contracted an alliance with you and with israel

Do not contract allinace with the inhabitants of the country

Do not take woman of the country for israel's children

Do not make divinities on fused metal

Observe the feasts

Reserve all your male first-borns to me

Respect saturday

Every male will have to present himself to me three times a year

Do not offer the victim's blood on bread

Donate all firstlings of the land to me

Do not cook the kid in its mother's blood

Don't murder

Don't wish..........

Translated from ancient Hebrew text of the Biblia Hebraica Stuttgartensia


MORE..........






The original Hebrew Masoretic text of the Bible.

The word Elohim, in the modern Christian Bibles, has been translated with the word "God".
But it is a wrong translation, because the Elohim is a plural term, that indicates a group of flesh and bones individuals, powerful but not omnipotent, and certainly not spiritual nor transcendent.

...........the writings on the Sumerian tablets fully confirm the narration of the Bible about the "Origin of Man" - and the Bible does not tell of a "Creationist" version about the Origin of Man - at all.

3.- The Elohim

The Elohim were not a "God" but a group of flesh and bones individuals. That they were flesh and bones individuals it is written with absolute clarity in the original Hebrew Masoretic text of the Bible.

The meaning of Elohim is "The Shining Ones", "The Elevated Ones" or "The Powerful Ones".
The Elohim were certainly powerful but not omnipotent, they had advanced scientific knowledge and technology but they were not omniscient, they had an extended lifespan compared to humans but they were not Immortal, neither eternal.




http://www.maurobiglino.com/

Evolution? Creationism? OR Intervention? lsol

[Outcast_Searcher]

...he instead recovered fully with no brain damage and brought back what he believes is proof of life after death...

Of course there's the ironic and obvious possibility that this belief of his "proof" is in itself, evidence of brain damage. Let's face it, there's an awful lot about the brain (and medicine in general) that we don't know.

[Outcast_Searcher]

...he instead recovered fully with no brain damage and brought back what he believes is proof of life after death...

My favorite author Philip K. Dick was an Athiest until he had a stroke 8 years before he died. Suddenly he believes he had a personal visit from a mystical being which he believes was some manifestation of God (net of all the babblespeak).

Thereafter much of his writing surrounded defending his personal belief in God, the trinity, etc. He even went so far as to analyze his expertise (style of writing) as "proof" that the Bible MUST be the "real" word of God, as (in his view) the stylistic tools used were many centuries ahead of their time.

To me, this was a fascinating look at how EVERYONE uses their view of the world to try to confirm their belief systems -- whatever they may be.

And that's all fine by me, until one tries to use force (monetary or otherwise) to impose their beliefs on others.