[alpha480v]

There are many perfectly legal ways to destroy the USA. The trick is to use America's horrible social system against America.

1. Support the American obesity complex: buy shares of sugar-fat companies (Coca Cola, Mc Donald's etc...); then buy shares of pharmaco's which refuse to create effective diabetes medicines, but which create fakes instead (there are quite a few out there).
Boycott initiatives that call for more healthy life-styles. When organizations urge Americans to exercise more, immediately launch a philosophical counter-attack (Jesus never went to the gym; Exercise is unpatriottic, etc)

We all know that the obesity epidemic in the US is the worst genocide in the history of mankind (millions of children being killed by their own parents, through forcefeeding them fat+sugar+patriottism). This will effectively cause the collapse of American society. (Obesity is the number one killer, and it will burden the American health care and social system to such an extent that collapse is inevitable

I didn't know this,and I live here.
Where are all these millions of American children that are dying?Is the AMA aware of this?Probably a big cover-up,right?
The Jesus thing might have a shot if there were only christians in the US,but we have all religous denominations here.I have to visit this website more often.You seem to have all the answers for everything American

[RdSnt]

If the United States goes down, the whole world will goes down with the US.

To the anti-American tools here, be very careful what you're wishing for.

After all, we have years and years of contingency plans to ensure the world will goes down if the US goes down. Everything is in place to ensure that it will happen.

Again, be very careful what you're wishing for.

Otherwise, you might kick/curse yourself and be guilty for life, if you survive the great world crash.

The real point is that the US IS going to crash and burn. The question is should we be directing that for our, those outside the US, best interests or just passively stand in the way of the train wreck.

[threadbear]

What Lorenzo said. Just support the status quo and the shit will hit the fan so beautifully, so perfectly. It'll be a choreographed chaos with so much karmic kick, it will take decades to overcome.

The US is collapsing. The hideous military adventures abroad, the furious drive to expand markets into unwelcoming areas, symbolized by the expanding girth of many Americans themselves; isn't a show of strength. It's a sign of tremendous weakness. The disequilibrium has been growing for decades. It didn't start with Bush. It's just been more elegantly revealed by this goofball administration.

America is a calorie addled fat lady teetering precariously on the edge of a hollowed out hostess twinkie, screaming at the rest of the world to follow her example.

The end is nigh. We will all suffer, but America, unfortunately, and those closest to her, will suffer the most.

[generikan]

see, in america people(many but not all) are anti foreign made products

But these are the same people who want to sell American good s to other countries.

If you dont buy foreign goods, then I dont think you have right to sell your goods to other countries either.

If you think you are helping your country by being anti-foreign, you are not. hehe Because people in other countries can do the same against you- not buy american products.

There are many uneducated and uninformed dumbazzes in this country. They will never understand and dont want to understand that it works both-ways GODDAMMIT!

once again KARMA will get ya for being anti-foreign made products!

[HonestPessimist]

The real point is that the US IS going to crash and burn. The question is should we be directing that for our, those outside the US, best interests or just passively stand in the way of the train wreck.

The world IS standing stuck on the train tracks and the US is the burning train steaming down fast!

*Imagine the world having "headlights in deer's eyes" and hearing train's horn-blaring getting closer*

When it is too late, please be sure to kick yourself. Thank you.

[generikan]

true, if that makes you feel comfortable and if that makes you sleep well at night, you should believe that.
(After all its all the lies and lies and lies by media that makes us happy)

The country who is going to suffer MOST will be the country who created the mess.
Believe it or not but its the law of NATURE.

While you are busy fighting a never ending war, the rest of the world is busy making friends among countries.

I am not a citizen of one country. I am a wordly person. I am a citizen of a world. To me american citizen is a mere piece of paper because I am not a native(american) anyway. I care for the world, you are the one who is greedy and wants all the good stuff.
World is not stupid. Some are poor som eare rich. The only difference between you and them is that unlike Columbus, they didnt feel like sailing on a boat that day during the 14th century.

The world knows your old game because you play the same game over and over again. Its aint gonna happen again, i hope so

[savethehumans]

LOTS of good reading about the weapon of economics over at From The Wilderness, folks. Try "Snap Out of It," written by Mike Ruppert after the November elections, for starters.

Combined with things like the trade deficit, volatile stock/commodities markets, lack of in-nation industry, and falling (petro-)dollar, it shouldn't take long to bring the U.S. to its knees--and those who ARE in the U.S. and know what's going on SHOULD do its part.

It ain't wars. It ain't assassinations. It ain't PHYSICAL violence of any kind. It's the money, stupid! Invest YOURS wisely!

[erl]

Wow, am I in the right place? Is this the anti-U.S. forum? Just wanted to be sure.

When the U.S. economy goes (and it will go), Europe, Asia, Canada, and everybody else in the world who sells will mourn and grieve because who, then, will buy your merchandise? No one.

Plot all you want.

[spear]

Barbara said it right.
Other countries wont suffer as much as the US.

[RdSnt]

Wow, am I in the right place? Is this the anti-U.S. forum? Just wanted to be sure.

When the U.S. economy goes (and it will go), Europe, Asia, Canada, and everybody else in the world who sells will mourn and grieve because who, then, will buy your merchandise? No one.

Plot all you want.

I don't regard my position as anti-american nor am I plotting. It is simply a recognition of the reality of the current US administrations agenda and the inevitability of a US economic collapse.
Indeed, we are all going to suffer, particularly North America, primarily because the isolation that has served us well over the last 100 years is now going to bit us in the ass.

The issue is, now that we recognize the coming big problem, do we passively wait or do we plan? Greenspan and BushCo. have some type of agenda and timetable, at least you would think this situation is more than just random stupidity.
I don't believe I or any other citizen, and I'm including American citizens, should wait on BushCo's timing. We all know when they pull the trigger it won't be in the interests of the general public.

[Ebyss]

When the U.S. economy goes (and it will go), Europe, Asia, Canada, and everybody else in the world who sells will mourn and grieve because who, then, will buy your merchandise? No one.

Europe's market is not exclusively the U.S., the U.S.'s market is not exclusively Europe. They are not as interdependent as everyone makes out. Also, Europe won't exactly have lots of lovely oil to continue manufacturing all it's products, which is no great loss. The products won't be made if there is no market for them. Besides, it would be pure idiocy to think that a U.S. crash would not affect Europe, it just wouldn't doom us to poverty and apocalypse like people make out. When TSHTF, you can be sure America won't give a rat's ass about Europe or anywhere else, unless we have something they want.

[threadbear]

Ebyss, Even Canada can get by, economically, without the US. Tough times, yes,--but we'll get through it. Every other person int the blue states who can emigrate out of the US will. Canada will benefit from the brain drain.

The impression I get from travelling to and living in Europe is the inflated sense the US has of itself,(as expressed in the media) in relation to other nations. They are becoming less and less significant, fighting useless wars to further their ideology and indulge their denial.

Less informed Americans experience their country as benevolent power, boldly flexing it's muscles for the greater good, but the more informed Americans see a failing imperialist power, experiencing spastic death convulsions.

The US isn't profoundly necessary to the global body politic or economic, to use another metaphor. The mainstream culture portrays it as the heart of the world, in more ways than one. In reality, it's the appendix, and if it can't be removed, it will be isolated, as Mike Ruppert describes.

[Euric]

"They" will only collapse our economy if they feel they are insulated from the effects.

If they bring down our econmoy and in the process destoy "theirs", what is the gain?

Some may not care if theirs is effected, especially if they see themselves working like slaves and don't have much to show for it, while Americans like high and mighty at others expense.

Others may feel that even if they collspse, they have a better chance of survival or recovery. How many Americans or how long can Americans survive without electricity, gas, running water, automobiles, etc.? People in many parts of the world have had much less for a long time and know how to live without things Americans take for granted.

It might all depend on how jealous someone is of America's free ride. Ending it might be seen as a big gain.

[Euric]

We are the world's consumer. They make sh*t. We buy it. That's how the world works. If they wanted to hurt us, they could do it. But unfortunately, it would also hurt themselves.

Massive unemployment would result in many of countries if the US went into a depression. It is not the best course of action for Japan/SouthKorea/China/Europe/et al to take.

This is why it is important to create consumers in other countries so that a loss of American sales is offset by sales elsewhere. A more balanced world economy not based on US dollar hegemony can produce balanced consumption world-wide. Ending US control of the world's economy would be a plus that would end depedence on one nation to be consumer and everyone else the producer. The collapse of the US economy would be a step in that direction.

[Ebyss]

Threadbear, great post. That pretty much sums it up.

[RdSnt]

We are the world's consumer. They make sh*t. We buy it. That's how the world works. If they wanted to hurt us, they could do it. But unfortunately, it would also hurt themselves.

Massive unemployment would result in many of countries if the US went into a depression. It is not the best course of action for Japan/SouthKorea/China/Europe/et al to take.

This is why it is important to create consumers in other countries so that a loss of American sales is offset by sales elsewhere. A more balanced world economy not based on US dollar hegemony can produce balanced consumption world-wide. Ending US control of the world's economy would be a plus that would end depedence on one nation to be consumer and everyone else the producer. The collapse of the US economy would be a step in that direction.

No, consumption is the primary, long-term problem in relation to PO. The American problem just makes things much more complicated and worse.

A point to make here is that the debt/emminent collapse of the US is a serious distraction from the main issue which is how to guide the world beyond PO. I think there is a case to be made that the US economy should be collapsed sooner rather than later so we can re-focus on the big issues.

There've been good posts to this thread, thanks. I've been curious though with the silence regarding the implications, particularly in the US, of a collapse. I'm thinking there are going riots and wholesale panic. In a country loaded to the armpits with guns, that's likely to get real ugly real quick.

[sjn]

I imagine the plan in the minds of BushCo would be to switch to a full War Economy once the bubble economy pops. I'm sure they're planning on some big event they can use to convince the public that the collapse deliberately caused by an outside ememy; China possibly, though more likely it's going to happen sooner rather than later, so could well be Iran.

Perhaps the plan is a simple as supporting an Israeli bombing of Iran's nuclear infrastructure, counting on Iran to take retalitory action, possibly a blockade of oil shipments to the US out of the the Persian Gulf. This would likely be sufficient to tip the US economy from its precarious balancing act, and Bush can rightly say that it was an act of (economic) war by the Iranians.

[Euric]

Perhaps the plan is a simple as supporting an Israeli bombing of Iran's nuclear infrastructure, counting on Iran to take retalitory action, possibly a blockade of oil shipments to the US out of the the Persian Gulf. This would likely be sufficient to tip the US economy from its precarious balancing act, and Bush can rightly say that it was an act of (economic) war by the Iranians.

You don't honestly believe that the Iranians would expose their nuclear infrastructure to the possibility of attack? Whatever has been identified in the media as the location of the nuclear site Iran is building is obviously meant as a decoy. Iraq foolishly started to build an above ground reactor in the early 1980's that Israel destroyed on 1981-06-07. I would think the Iranians have learned a valuable lesson from that event.

It wouldn't take much to damage or destroy the US economy. Blocking the Golf or Hormuz is one, cutting off oil supplies is another. Even as a last resort, the Iranians could sink nuclear bombs into wells and blow them up if it appeared the Americans were winning their invasion.

The US economy is teethering on the edge from huge debts. Just a minor shock would send it deep into the abyss. Once bankrupt, what could the US do to regain its prestige and lost power?

[sjn]

You don't honestly believe that the Iranians would expose their nuclear infrastructure to the possibility of attack? Whatever has been identified in the media as the location of the nuclear site Iran is building is obviously meant as a decoy. Iraq foolishly started to build an above ground reactor in the early 1980's that Israel destroyed on 1981-06-07. I would think the Iranians have learned a valuable lesson from that event.

I don't doubt it. Though what does that matter? It's a gamble no matter what. They're probably sufficiently confident of their intelligence that the Iranians don't actually have nuclear weapons yet to risk it. The US gov knows its economy is screwed, the only part that can survive and grow in the near-term is the military-industrial complex. They'll need declare a state of emergency within the US and martial law. The legislation is already in place. Then somehow they'll need spin things so as to get as much support for the re-introduction of the draft as they can, not easily done, but many people will be desperate simply trying to survive after the economy tanks to make much fuss.

It wouldn't take much to damage or destroy the US economy. Blocking the Golf or Hormuz is one, cutting off oil supplies is another. Even as a last resort, the Iranians could sink nuclear bombs into wells and blow them up if it appeared the Americans were winning their invasion.

Absolutely. The US economy is failing anyway, what do they have to loose on that front? Once the $ collapses how is the US going to be able to buy oil it needs for itself anyway?

The US economy is teethering on the edge from huge debts. Just a minor shock would send it deep into the abyss. Once bankrupt, what could the US do to regain its prestige and lost power?

I don't think Bush and the Neocons are entirely rational. I'm suggesting that they believe that fully mobilised the US military machine can take Iran. That in itself would do a lot to regain its prestige and power. The Asians would be without one of their main oil suppliers, perhaps unable or unwilling to risk an all out (nuclear?) confrontation.

[erl]

You all can't possibly be serious. The U.S. is "less significant" than who? Canada?

Canada can survive the collapse of the U.S. economy? I would like to see any economist who thinks so. The U.S. is Canada's largest trading partner. Canada, likewise, is the U.S.' largest trading partner.

Sorry, guys. But where Europe and Asia may be somewhat insulated, Canada and Mexico are not.