Ibon wrote:Coffee
I was primarily talking about US agriculture (in how it relates to illegals). Not much coffee grown in the US.
Ibon wrote:Coffee
asg70 wrote:Ibon wrote:Coffee
I was primarily talking about US agriculture (in how it relates to illegals). Not much coffee grown in the US.
The issue mainly impacts fruit and vegetable growers and dairy farmers -- operations that require human labor to pick ripe produce and milk cows. Commodity crop growers require far fewer hands, as they can use machines to plant, tend and harvest their crops.
National farming organizations like the American Farm Bureau Federation warn that unless something is done to address the impending labor shortage, produce and dairy farms across the country will struggle to stay in business. As these farms cease operating, the United States instead will import produce, mostly from Mexico and other Latin American countries.
Ibon wrote:Commodity grains are one thing. Vegetables and picking fruit is something else.
Ibon wrote:We currently have an asshole president whose racism is politicizing this whole topic and using immigrants as scapegoats to prop up support with his racist base.
Ibon wrote:unless something is done to address the impending labor shortage
Cog wrote:It is exactly what is going on in the USA, energy unlimited and to raise objections to it makes you some sort of monster to the left. Or so they say. The reality is the left wants to destroy what we know as Western civilization, by any means necessary.
GHung wrote:The future will likely be more inclusive and doesn't care if you like it. God forbid people embrace change and try to move it in a direction they see as preferable.
ralfy wrote:Small town is what happens in the long run. And that's because there's no mouse utopia experiment.
EnergyUnlimited wrote:ralfy wrote:Small town is what happens in the long run. And that's because there's no mouse utopia experiment.
What exactly are you trying to say?
GHung wrote:The future will likely be more inclusive...
Cog wrote:13% of the American tribe commit 50% of all violent felonies. Why would I want them as part of my smaller tribe?
Oh I forgot, facts are racist and even to bring facts up is white privilege.
Trump is going to curb stomp these identity politicians into the dust of history and you leftists will never understand why.
Ibon wrote:From WWII forwards this arrangement shifted since the economy provided so many good jobs there were no longer any resident white legal immigrants who chose to do this labor. They all found better opportunities working in factories and moving into towns that supported rust belt industries. Of course the need for this farm labor did not disappear, it was replaced slowly through the decades mainly with Mexican immigrant farm workers, undocumented.
To answer you question, yes I do believe that the millions of immigrants right now today are an indispensable part of American agriculture.
We own a lodge and coffee farm in Panama. I have over 6 staff who earn between $ 15 and $ 20 a day. Without their help we could not financially function growing coffee. These workers are not exploited. They are well paid and are quite happy.
I make no apologies to asshole racists.
tire wrote:
But what if a person enjoys being embedded in his native culture? What then? What if I enjoy being able to talk to my waitress a few words beyond the minimal vocabulary she acquired when immigrating and taking the job?
What if I enjoy wishing a Merry Christmas to the grocery clerk but since it's a fresh import from arabia there's no point in doing so?
Ridiculous blabbering you say ? Maybe for you it is, but not for me. So everybody has different values and different concerns, which brings me back to what you said: it's in the best interest of....
?
tire wrote: But what would have happened if those same mexicans were simply not available?
tire wrote:
Again, I don't think so. The situation would have resolved itself the old fashioned free market way. Pay for farm work would have gone up, making farming and farm work more attractive. Of course this would also have kept food prices higher, but you wouldn't even notice (you wouldn't know anything else).
If anything, again, this would have been beneficial to the nation. More expensive food, makes better pay for farmers, better pay for farm hands, making them better stewards of the land, more caring customers who save instead of throw away, more gardens to supplement individual needs. All in all I think the US would have been much better off.
This train left the station. The flood gates were opened, changing farms (and other industries) to what they are now. Can course be changed?
To a certain degree yes, a guest worker program as you mention can be a tool to achieve this.
However a guest worker program will only lead to positive results if it's combined with draconian enforcement on illegal workers. Illegals must be deported rapidly and business owners hiring them must be punished such that it hurts.
asg70 wrote:Ibon wrote:unless something is done to address the impending labor shortage
And...that "something" to address it will be...automation.
I get it. You don't think it can be automated. Time will tell.
There are threads here about the rise of robots. It's not like this hasn't been discussed. But you're taking it as a given that we've reached the point of diminishing returns already, and I don't think that's a fair assumption.
EnergyUnlimited wrote:ralfy wrote:Small town is what happens in the long run. And that's because there's no mouse utopia experiment.
What exactly are you trying to say?
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