[vaseline2008]

I think people would not do well living like bees in a hive.

[Subjectivist]

I have been trying to design in my head what an Arcology would look like from the outside. My basic desing constraint is people being people they are going to want to live on the perimeter so they can have windows and see outside.

In effect the outside wall of an Arcology where people would live voluntarily will be all apartments. Because the inside will be commercial, industrial and HVAC/plumbing/electrical I came up with two basic apartment designs, one 25 feet wide with the living room and master bedroom on the window end, an one 50 feet wide with two additional rooms having windows looking out. By and large Americans are used to being able to see outside from almost any room of their residence, even many bathrooms and laundry rooms have windows looking outward. In the apartments I have rented in my life only the bathroom and kitchen on the wet wall on the core of the building side lacked windows, every bedroom and the livingroom always had exterior windows.

How important is the ability to see outside? Is it a psychological necessity or just a habit? If you have a two or three bedroom unit do all the bedrooms need exterior windows? If you are on an upper floor the window is a poor escape route in an emergency so physically it is not needed for an Arcology apartment, so the real key is the psychology. If there is no psychology too it then would interior apartments be viable as well as exterior ones? Until that is settled nobody will risk building an Arcology with interior windowless apartments. Maybe you woul just need one windowed livingroom common area and all the remaining rooms would be windowless, like a small ranch house with all the windows on one end and none anywher else. Heck if you are willing to live like that you could save a ton of energy with super insulated walls everywhere excep the one window wall.

What do you all think?

[kiwichick]

what a load of crap!!!!!!!

"Anyone who believes in indefinite growth of anything physical on a physically finite planet is either a madman or an economist"

Kenneth Boulding Economist

[Subjectivist]

what a load of crap!!!!!!!

"Anyone who believes in indefinite growth of anything physical on a physically finite planet is either a madman or an economist"

Kenneth Boulding Economist

Trying to redesign cities to be maximully resource efficient is a load of crud? You have very strange ideas about proper stewardship of God's green Earth.

[kiwichick]

@ sub

there is no god

[Subjectivist]

@ sub

there is no god

He loves you anyhow.

[Subjectivist]

Sub, ideally the Archology has concentrated the population in large dense building enclaves rather than dispersed suburban sprawls. Thus, the country, farm land, forest, paradise is situated right next door . . . outside the front door, just outside the Archology. That way everybody who lives like bees in a hive is able to treat the domicile, their little sleeping/private space, as merely a sleeping/cooking cocoon, rather than a desperate personal kingdom. The World becomes the Kingdom.

But truth is nobody wants this. They are stuck in the reigning paradigm. Why do you bring it up? It is too late to retool this sorry ass country. You are only hitting your head on the sheetrock wall.

Back in the 1970's I read a dystopian novel titled The World Inside by Robert Silverberg.
http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_ss_i_ ... Caps%2C247

I spent a lot of my childhood escaping after my chores out into the woods that was next door to the farm enjoying nature and learning about the world outside. Reading that book was about the most horrible future I could imagine, no more wild spaces, no more being able to just leave and make a fresh start somewhere else. Every day just exsting as a part in the gigantic machine of Modat Arcologies.

Later on I learned how many things Arcologies have going for them in terms of energy efficiency and population density that eliminates all the suburban sprawl that has destroyed a lot of those patches of woods other kids will never get to experience because they are gone. Since around the mid 1990's I have played with the arcology idea from time to time, and every time I see suburban sprawl expanding it pops into my head. Recently a home three blocks from here divided his lot and has been building a brand new house on the edge of this town I live in, I pass it every time I go out to the drug store or church, and it got me thinking again.

Humans spend most of their time indoors, not just indoors but in windowless structures. Modern factories and retail outlets be they big box stores or shopping mall franchises don't have windows except perhaps on the doors. Modern Americans are getting more and more like the people Silverbergs novel, more like rats in a laboratory than humans. I am expecting the next phase to be nearly windowless houses. I grew up in an old farm house with picture windows in every room but the kitchen and bathroom, both of which started out as something else before running water was installed back around 1945. The first house I ever owned was built from a Sears and Roebuck kit package in the early 1900's and it had just as much glass, but it was in more or less modern size units two per wall instead of one picture window. I now live in a ranch house built in the mid 1970's that has half the number of windows per wall and looking at newer houses in this town each decade the builders seem to eliminate a couple of windows from the designs.

Really most people don't use their windows much, they draw the blinds to prevent the neighbors from snooping and use artficial light to see inside. A wall with no windows and no exterior door is a much easier one to insulate and saves energy. That will be the main selling point, and once you eliminate the windows you can squeeze the houses closer together because the neighbors won't be seen.

[Subjectivist]

Sorry hit submit too soon, so it seems to me that the suburbs will become more and more densely occupied by windowless box houses, all in the name of efficiency. As peak oil starts to really bite down having a local craftsman will be more valuable than driving 50 miles on a commute. If our civilization holds together the logical ultimate is an arcology town where everyone lives and works in one super insilated efficient building. If our civilization crumbles, well hen it doesn't really matter much what we spend our time on now, most of us will be dead within a year of any general collapse.

[KaiserJeep]

The penultimate arcology novel would be Oath of Fealty, by Larry Niven and Jerry Pournelle.

Save a tree with the E-Book version:

http://www.barnesandnoble.com/w/oath-of-fealty-larry-niven/1001924217?ean=9781416555162

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B004LRPQQ6/ref=as_li_tf_til?tag=digichok-20&camp=14573&creative=327641

...highly recommended.

[Timo]

what a load of crap!!!!!!!

"Anyone who believes in indefinite growth of anything physical on a physically finite planet is either a madman or an economist"

Kenneth Boulding Economist

Trying to redesign cities to be maximully resource efficient is a load of crud? You have very strange ideas about proper stewardship of God's green Earth.

Sorry Sub. Trying to redesign cities to be maximally resource efficient, in practice, is a load of crud. A Master's and 25 years in that field has, unfortunately, taught me that even the best ideals, sometimes, aren't worth pursuing. Cities around the world encompass humanities single greatest monetary investment. Changing it all in any kind of timeframe relevant to resource depletion is a fairy tale. Would if we could, but we can't, so we won't. Any discussion of that in a public forum right now would have teabaggers screaming AGENDA 21!!!! at the top of their lungs.

I'm not knocking the intent or the idea you presented, only its practicality. Improvements in resource utilization and efficiencies will only happen one very small step at a time, and the cumulative result will be too late.

[Tanada]

Huge cuboid skyscraper "big enough to hold 20 Empire State Buildings"

Saudi Arabia is experiencing an unprecedented construction boom at the moment. Alongside its previously announced 170-km-long skyscraper and Qiddiya gigaproject, comes another incredibly ambitious project named the Mukaab. It will comprise a huge cuboid supertall skyscraper that hosts a twisting tower inside.

The Mukaab will reach a height of 400 m (1,312 ft), which puts it at around 41 in the world's tallest rankings. However, it will also be just as long and wide, which makes it truly massive. Its decorative exterior is inspired by traditional Islamic architecture and it will be topped by a rooftop garden.

Its cavernous interior will have a floorspace of around 2 square kilometers (0.77 square miles), which the Saudi Government's Public Investment Fund says would be theoretically large enough to hold 20 Empire State Buildings. Beyond its sheer size though, the most interesting thing about its interior is the large twisting tower that will be positioned at its center – think of it like a big box with a tower inside, essentially.

"[The Mukaab] will encompass a tower atop a spiral base which will be a premium hospitality destination with a multitude of retail, cultural and tourist attractions, along with residential and hotel units, commercial spaces, and recreational facilities," explained the Saudi Public Investment Fund.

Elsewhere inside, the Mukaab will also feature some kind of holographic experience that will reportedly be used to depict underwater and strange otherworldly scenes. It's all very ambitious and futuristic.



The Mukaab will be the centerpiece of a larger development in Riyadh called New Murabba that will involve the construction of thousands of new homes, hotels, and retail spaces, as well as offices and leisure facilities, an immersive theater, and a technology and design university.

The project is being handled by the New Murabba Development Company, with Saudi Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman heading it. It's expected to be completed by 2030. The video below offers some more details on its design.

LINK

[theluckycountry]

Like a big Mecca. Well I hope they have more luck that Dubai did with it's "World" islands mega project.

Sand: Around 50 billion tons of it – enough to build a wall 27 metres deep and 27 metres high around planet Earth – is used every year, in everything from the production of glass to concrete blocks.

This volume makes sand the second most used resource worldwide after water.
https://www.agbi.com/analysis/gulf-cons ... -shortage/

[Newfie]

Sigh! Humans.

[kublikhan]

Like a big Mecca. Well I hope they have more luck that Dubai did with it's "World" islands mega project.

One of the few things you said that I agree with. This seems to me like a Dubai style white elephant.

Youtube: Why Dubai Has $14 Billion Empty Man-Made Islands

It is twenty years since the construction of the man-made islands of Dubai began, the world's largest artificial archipelago. Widely announced as the star project of the urban development of the United Emirate, two decades later, the story is very different to what the developers would have imagined. Islands yet to be completed, abandoned projects, the sea reclaiming its space. In twenty years, numerous different problems have led to delays in the works, nonpayment, debts, legal problems, an irreparable environmental impact, some islands sinking back into the sea.

First problem: oil and financial crisis
The financial and real estate crisis of 2008 and the drop in oil prices in 2014 which fuel the Emirate's economy were the first events to have a negative impact on the feasibility of this macro-project.

The chronology of the events is long and complex, but essentially it can be summarized in private investors that pulled out, million dollar debts incurred by the developer, lawsuits and suspended works, with no restart date.

The problems continue today. In 2018, sales of new real estate developments dropped by 46% during the first quarter of the year. Since the end of 2014, house prices have dropped by 15%.

The World: at risk of sinking
Still with The World, in 2010, the marine company Penguin Marine warned that this group of archipelagos was sinking back into the sea. The company, responsible for providing logistics and transport services to the islands, regularly took measurements for safety purposes.

The main reason is that the sand extracted from the seabed to build the 300 archipelagos, was gradually returning to its place of origin. A photograph taken from the International Space Station in February 2010, showed evidence that, indeed, the waters of the Persian Gulf were rising and the islands were starting to disappear. This also led to the channels between the islands becoming obstructed.

WHO LIVES ON THE ISLANDS?
Despite the extraordinary publicity received by such bold projects, other than Pal Jumeirah the man-made islands of Dubai are sparsely inhabited. While some of them are privately owned, its current situation can be easily checked without having to delve deep into Dubai's cadastral records. A quick look from space through tools such as Google Maps is enough to verify that, despite the enormous effort involved, the islands remain largely undeveloped.

WHAT HAPPENED TO DUBAI MAN-MADE ISLANDS?

The Burj Khalifa contributes nothing to Dubai except bragging rights. While the surrounding hotels, malls, and other attractions generate a great deal of income for the local economy, the colossal Burj Khalifa was financed by a massive amount of debt and it is still unknown whether it will ever pay for itself. The situation becomes grimmer when one considers its maintenance costs, especially with its famously inefficient sewage system. And the main reason the building is so expensive is its height, which is a completely cosmetic, non-functional feature of the building.

The city of Dubai did not green light a building that extends a half-mile into the air because of a pressing need for residences in downtown Dubai. To the contrary, the top 800 feet (244 meters) of the building, or 29% of the structure’s total height, is devoted to non-usable floors. These floors are not simply unoccupied due to lack of demand; even worse, they were not designed to be occupied in the first place. They were simply added to edge out the competition for the prize of world’s tallest building.

Pointless height is not an issue specific to the Burj Khalifa. The Council on Tall Buildings and Urban Habitation estimates that 60 percent of all supertall buildings — defined as buildings that are over 300 meters, or 984 feet, in height — would not be supertalls without useless floors and spires added to the top. The council calls this wasteful space “vanity” height.

The world needs functional architecture that meets the needs of the local population. It does not need more monuments to the power of capital, even pretty ones like the Burj Khalifa or the Jeddah Tower, which is currently under construction in Saudi Arabia and is expected to become the first building in the world to exceed 1,000 meters (3,280 feet) in height, a distinction that serves nothing except the egos of those who are commissioning the building.

The World’s Tallest Building Should Never Have Been Built

Youtube: Dubai Is A Parody Of The 21st Century

[Plantagenet]

Powerful and Wealthy Nations and Empires tend to build huge buildings. These buildings can become great historical monuments that live on long after the people who built the monuments are dead and gone and the entire ancient nation that built them has vanished.

For instance, the Egyptians built the pyramids.....the Athenian Greeks built the Acropolis ....the Romans built the Coliseum....the Byzantines built the Hagia Sophia.........the Chinese built the Great Wall......the Moslems in India built the taj Mahal.......the Brits built St. Pauls.....and the Americans built New York City.

Now the Arab countries are wealthy and they are building great monuments too.

Personally, I wish them success with their huge engineering projects. I've seen the Burj and it's pretty amazing.

AND I'm looking forward to see the new Saudi super building if/when they get it done. It sounds like it will be like nothing else on earth.

Cheers!

[Tanada]

Powerful and Wealthy Nations and Empires tend to build huge buildings. These buildings can become great historical monuments that live on long after the people who built the monuments are dead and gone and the entire ancient nation that built them has vanished.

For instance, the Egyptians built the pyramids.....the Athenian Greeks built the Acropolis ....the Romans built the Coliseum....the Byzantines built the Hagia Sophia.........the Chinese built the Great Wall......the Moslems in India built the taj Mahal.......the Brits built St. Pauls.....and the Americans built New York City.

Now the Arab countries are wealthy and they are building great monuments too.

Personally, I wish them success with their huge engineering projects. I've seen the Burj and it's pretty amazing.

AND I'm looking forward to see the new Saudi super building if/when they get it done. It sounds like it will be like nothing else on earth.

Cheers!

_______Ozymandias______

I met a traveller from an antique land
Who said: "Two vast and trunkless legs of stone
Stand in the desert . . . Near them, on the sand,
Half sunk, a shattered visage lies, whose frown,
And wrinkled lip, and sneer of cold command,
Tell that its sculptor well those passions read
Which yet survive, stamped on these lifeless things,
The hand that mocked them, and the heart that fed:
And on the pedestal these words appear:
'My name is Ozymandias, king of kings:
Look on my works, ye Mighty, and despair!'
Nothing beside remains. Round the decay
Of that colossal wreck, boundless and bare
The lone and level sands stretch far away."