[dinopello]

What you learned about ancient hisStory is false.......

The people that remain are the ones that make history. The modern religious explorer-types were zealots about destroying the legacy of the cultures they wished to convert. So, more than a false history there is little documented history. More work for archeologists.

[The Practician]

Ok, how did they cut, move and erect a 343 ton piece of pink granite?

Slaves, ropes and pulleys....

I'm a bit curious as to what sort of form you assume the lost technologies of ancient civilizations would actually take, because from what I can tell you are simply dismissing reasonable explanations without offering anything other than a vague concept of "lost knowledge". To me it seems to be somewhat of a false binary. Personally I think that it's likely that the truth is somewhere in the middle. I don't see any reason to believe that the ancient Egyptians didn't have a more profound knowledge of geometry and the application of it's concepts than we give them credit for, but I also don't see any reason why, as clever humans with a lot of time, they couldn't apply that knowledge using simple tools.

[Shaved Monkey]

Watch this and it all looks doable
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pCvx5gSn ... re=related

[vision-master]

In the diagram above, the big triangle is the same proportion and angle of the Great Pyramid, with its base angles at 51 degrees 51 minutes. If you bisect this triangle and assign a value of 1 to each base, then the hypotenuse (the side opposite the right angle) equals phi (1.618..) and the perpendicular side equals the square root of phi. And that’s not all. A circle is drawn with it’s centre and diameter the same as the base of the large triangle. This represents the circumference of the earth. A square is then drawn to touch the outside of the earth circle. A second circle is then drawn around the first one, with its circumference equal to the perimeter of the square. (The squaring of the circle.) This new circle will actually pass exactly through the apex of the pyramid. And now the “wow”: A circle drawn with its centre at the apex of the pyramid and its radius just long enough to touch the earth circle, will have the circumference of the moon! Neat, huh! And the small triangle formed by the moon and the earth square will be a perfect 345 triangle (which doesn’t seem to mean much.)

[Novus]

I had a thread on this topic years ago. Modern man can't get over himself or grasp the concept that the ancients were superior to us.

There is a block so massive in Lebanon that no modern crane could move it without breaking it.



In Egypt there is an ancient wonder no one talks about. It is called the hypostyle hall. It is a block the size of a bus sitting on top 50ft columns. It is not just one block but dozens that form the grand hall.



This is a diagram comparing it's relative size to Stonehenge:



Inside the hypostyle hall is this hieroglyph showing the "magic" of the high priests and servants of the Pharaoh.





If we are to believe mainstream history then the ancients went from caves and wood hut to building pyramids in just a few generations. Obviously there is untold story being left out of the official record. Atlantis perhaps but who really knows.

[The Practician]

Novus, It doesn't take much of a stretch of the imagination to look at those pictures of the pharohs ancient magic and see something that could be very similar in function to the stacking fulcrum depicted in the video of the stonehenge guy. That said, I agree that in terms of durability and craftsmanship much of what was accomplished by the ancients far exceeds just about everything we build today, which will probably be torn down for it's value as salvage sooner rather than later.

[vision-master]

There's much more (physical evidence)...... that turns the theory of evolution for mankind on it's ugly head.

[kublikhan]

Let me see if I got this proposed scenario correct. 4,000 years ago ancient Egyptians possessed technology that rivals today's technology. They used this ancient technology to carve a bunch of rocks. They did not use it to fight, improve their standard of living, or build anything more substantial than rocks. This super advanced technology was simply used for moving and rock carving, nothing more. After the rocks were carved, then then discarded this advanced technology in a way so thorough that not a single trace of it remains to this day. Then, they planted fake tools at the base of the quarries to make it look like they were really using simple tools. But keep in mind those simple tools were just fakes and planted there to throw us off.

The other scenario to consider:

As one would expect, extracting materials from hard stone quarries was significantly more difficult for ancient Egyptians than from their soft stone counterparts. The tools necessary to remove and shape blocks from bedrock had to be as strong or stronger than the rock being cut, and for this reason metal tools could not be used. Instead, workers would chip away at hard stone with tools made from comparatively harder types of stone. Such is the case with the extraction of granite, where dolerite balls were pounded against the rock's surface in order to cut into it.

In order to see how granite was extracted from Aswan by the ancient Egyptians, it is best to look at abandoned quarries such as the famous unfinished obelisk. Though its size was abnormal, it is evident from remains at the site that the unfinished obelisk was cut out of bedrock using the method suspected to have been implemented at other granite quarries. Workers would cut away a trench of about 75 cms all the way around the block intended for removal by pounding at the surrounding bedrock with the dolerite balls mentioned previously. Each worker would have his own quadrant in which he would chip the rock in one corner until told to change position and work another corner. After the trench had reached its desired depth (a bit deeper than the depth of the block being quarried), workers had to cut out enough rock from underneath the block so that it could be broken free by massive wooden levers.

Bottom image (Dolerite pounding ball found in situ at Aswan) From Ancient Egyptian Masonry

Hard Stone Quarries

Obelisk making technology in ancient Egypt is an archaeological matter that is quite well understood today. They were generally made from granite coming from well-known quarries located near the banks of the Nile, mainly in the region of Aswan. In a quarry in this area, the northern quarry which is now an open-air museum, there is the famous unfinished obelisk of huge proportions. It is only crudely carved, marks are left which hint to the technology employed in its extraction. Modern Egyptian shows the use of Diorite balls as carving tools for granite, at Aswan

The carving procedure

I think we can solve this with Occam's razor. The simplest solution is usually the correct one. I have not seen any physical evidence that would persuade me that space age technology was used to carve pictures into stones, the technology then disappeared, and fake stone tools were put in place as a ruse. To me, that is simply absurd.

[vision-master]

I think we can solve this with Occam's razor. The simplest solution is usually the correct one. I have not seen any physical evidence that would persuade me that space age technology was used to carve pictures into stones, the technology then disappeared, and fake stone tools were put in place as a ruse. To me, that is simply absurd.

To me, you are simply absurd.

How did 'they carve out that bottom block of Andesite? You know, the back side (see below) - explain......? The cut stone is smooth as a bathroom mirror with perfectly cut rounded corners.

FYI: whoever cut out that bottom selection, left it close to the quarry so we all can see it to this day. Someone had a sense of humor.



Did they have the 'golden wedge'?

Legends and historyHe and his wife, Mama Quilla, the Moon goddess, were generally considered benevolent deities. Mama Quilla supposedly gave birth to the Earth. According to an ancient myth, Inti taught his son Manco Cápac and his daughter Mama Ocllo the arts of civilization and they were sent to earth to pass this knowledge to mankind. Another legend however states Manco Cápac was the son of Viracocha.

Inti ordered his children to build the Inca capital where a divine golden wedge they carried with them, would penetrate the earth. Incas believed this happened in the city of Cuzco. The Inca ruler was considered to be the living representative of Inti.

Willaq Umu was the High Priest of the Sun (Inti). The Incas believed that the Sapa Inca was the living son of Inti the sun god. His position placed him as the second most powerful person in the kingdom. He was directly underneath the Sapa Inca, and they were often brothers. The emperor's family was believed to be descended from Inti.

Inti was also known as Apu Punchau, which means "leader [of the] daytime". Inti is represented as a golden disk with a human face. A great golden disk representing Inti was captured by the Spanish conquistadors in 1571 and was sent to the Pope via Spain. It has since been lost.



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inti

[kublikhan]

To me, you are simply absurd.

How did 'they carve out that bottom block of Andesite? You know, the back side (see below) - explain......? The cut stone is smooth as a bathroom mirror with perfectly cut rounded corners.

FYI: whoever cut out that bottom selection, left it close to the quarry so we all can see it to this day. Someone had a sense of humor.

I'm absurd because I think granite can be cut/split with only hand tools? Yet you think it is perfectly reasonable that a space age civilization developed on earth 4,000 years ago, used it's vast power only for rock cutting, then disposed of the technology without leaving a trace? The only possible solution you can come up with for cutting/splitting granite is space age tools? Really? Have you even researched granite quarrying techniques? Or did you just go straight to a conspiracy theory website and regurgitate their babble?

Each wedge is pounded once, moving down the line in consecutive order. When the wedges are all driven in deep enough, the granite is forced apart, breaks and starts to split along the line of holes. This break - along the so called cleavage plane - is very even and the stone has to be worked only very little to achieve a smooth surface.

Granite is found in horizontal beds, between which lie thin sheets of sinter or quartz. This bed has to be split all the way down to the next sheet. Granite has a tendency to rend with comparative readiness and regularity along a plane at right angles to the cleavage. The stone splits along those original bedding planes and very clean and regular stone blocks are produced.

To achieve a smooth surface, the stone is split along a row of holes. Because granite splits relatively smoothly, the stones have to be burnished and polished only slightly. A stone frieze in Saqqara shows, what kind of tools a stone mason uses to process (not split) a stone. The frieze shows several workstations, where statues were obviously manufactured in series.

This way of splitting has been used by the Romans and also in pre-industrial quarries in New England until the 18th century. In mines and quarries nowadays the holes are made with widia drills (a material with the hardness of diamonds) and using a jackhammer, but even a few decades ago this was still manual work (see English texts about manufacturing roofing slates).

Building the Great Pyramid

Show me comparable granite carvings done today with only hand tools.

Ronald Rae completes his Baby Elephant sculpture

Ronald Rae visits his earliest sculptures at Rozelle Park

[vision-master]

Guess they had some pretty good compasses. lol


Much has been written about the astounding astronomical alignment of the Giza pyramids and, in particular, that of the Great Pyramid (GP) of Khufu. With only rudimentary instruments and tools the ancient astronomers, surveyors and builders of Egypt managed an incredible accuracy of 3.4 arc minutes to true north. In contrast, and more than 4000 years later, the astronomers of the Académie Royale managed on 6 arc minutes accuracy for the alignment of the Paris Observation in 1667, nearly twice the misalignment of the Great Pyramid.

[kublikhan]

Guess they had some pretty good compasses. lol

Actually, no. The pyramid faces true north, not magnetic north. If they had compasses, the pyramid would be pointing in a slightly different direction. But it's good to see you abandoned your earlier granite cutting argument. As to how the ancient Egyptians managed to align the pyramid to true north:

A small but precisely worked pyramidion (made from wood or stone) is placed as close as possible to a north-south position on the flattened ground where the pyramid will be built. Then two lines are drawn, taking the edges of the small pyramidion and lengthening them on the side which lies in the shadow. During a day a surveyor notes down, where exactly the tip of the pyramid shadow cuts through those two lines. The pyramidion is precisely aligned north to south, when both lines are cut at the same distance to the corner of the pyramidion. To achieve this, the pyramidion is moved slightly over a period of days, until both segments are exactly the same length. Since the pyramidion can be moved, the process can be repeated at several places on the pyramid plateau, thus checking and rechecking the north-south alignment. Even during the construction of the pyramid, when working on the pyramid frustum, this system can be used again for checking, if the surface is smooth enough, for example on top of the pyramid plateau.

Pyramid Alignment

I know marking the positions of shadows is not as exciting as space aliens, but it is far more plausible. Damn Occam and his razor, ruining all your fantastic explanations!

[vision-master]

The Great Pyramid is not 4 sided, but actualy 8 sided.



and......



and.......

Orion's belt - Giza & Teotihuacan.



and....

The Pyramid of the Sun is exactly 1/2 the size of the Great Pyramid @ Giza





more......

The Serapeum

The precision square I used was calibrated to .00005 inch (that is 5/100,000 of an inch) using a Jones & Lamson comparitor.

[kublikhan]

I'm not sure what your post is trying to say. Is that supposed to be proof aliens or space age Egyptians built the pyramids or something?

[vision-master]

It's saying what we were taught in school about ancient hisStory is BUNK!

[AgentR11]

I'm not seeing much bunk, just engineering achievements appropriate to the knowledge and abilities available at the time...

What was it that I was taught that was bunk?

[vision-master]

That we were living in the stone age BC with only copper and stone tools.

[AgentR11]

But I don't see anything inconsistent with copper and stone tools.

[vision-master]

But I don't see anything inconsistent with copper and stone tools.

Heterogeneous - Earthquake proof!

[AgentR11]

Looks like decent stone cutting to me... entirely consistent with available stone, sand, copper, and wood..

Cutting stone is not rocket science. It requires patience and sweat. Not lasers. Not steel.

Can modern man use steel and other fancy materials, computers and lasers, and fancy widgetizers to replace patience and sweat? sure. That doesn't make the widgetizers a required item to achieve the final product.