[emersonbiggins]

Asking the government to enables anyone to travel from A to B regardless of their social status is nothing short of communism.

Agreed.

[Peepers]

This is why this country is f*cked. You want a world class rail system? Fix the one you have, then build on it.

You don't walk before you learn to crawl. You don't run before you learn to walk. Public policy evolves. A small constituency asks for a modest improvement to a rail system. The rail system grows. The constituency grows, and demands more rail service. Etc. Etc. It's a process of achieving critical mass for each new step.

You don't go from having a passenger rail system that would make Madagascar ashamed to one that equals those of the world's top nations.

And spare me the free market ideology. When the free market returns to the U.S. transportation system, please let me know. With highways, aviation and waterways, governments owns the infrastructure and private interests own/operate/manage the vehicles.

With passenger rail, it's the exact opposite -- private interests own the infrastructure and a public agency owns/operates/manages the vehicles. Freight railroads value their properties and will not sell their infrastructure to the government.

As for government building it's own rail infrastructure, this gets back to the crawl/walk/run evolution of public policy. This country is a long way from building new rail rights of way. But the bill that this ideologue killed would have been the first step in that direction. California and East Coast are the only places in the U.S. where public funding has been available to any degree to support quality rail infrastructure necessary to support quality passenger rail services.

We've got what we paid for in this country, and now we're paying for it.

[perdition79]

The best way is let market forces sort out who can drive and cannot drive and stop promoting unnecessary commuting (public transportation eliminates the incentive for telecommuting for employers...). Asking the government to enables anyone to travel from A to B regardless of their social status is nothing short of communism.

Bingo. When transportation gets unbearably expensive, the average person will learn that it's a luxury and not a necessity. Doing away with federal subsidies on mass transportation will be an important step toward re-localization.

[emersonbiggins]

We've got what we paid for in this country, and now we're paying for it.

Salient points, one and all, Peepers.

Ultimately, procuring ROWs for new rail lines is as simple as converting existing interstate lanes (which will eventually fall into disuse and disrepair - you can count on it) into grade-separated railbeds; no need for eminent domain or condemnation of private land. Tracks can then be laid and tilting trainsets can be used to maneuver the tighter curves and tolerances that the interstate system was designed within.

Do I think this will happen? Probably not. Once the political capital is in place for change, the financial capital will be long gone.

Until then, happy motoring!

[mos6507]

Doing away with federal subsidies on mass transportation will be an important step toward re-localization.

If people feel that mass transit is less disruptive than re-localization, that's what will be done first. No amount of discouragement from the peanut gallery here will change that.

[Peepers]

link Eugene Register-Guard June 26, 2008 Guest Viewpoint
Our future is with rail, not bigger roads By Shannon Wilson:

Contrary to U.S. Rep. DeFazio’s assertion in his Feb. 25 guest viewpoint, “Feds must lead the way on roads,” Congress and DeFazio should scrap obsolete highway and freeway expansion plans throughout the country. Our future as a civilization is now dependent on creating a new transportation system to survive the end of cheap petroleum and climate change. More and wider freeways and highways will only hasten economic and climatic chaos and disruption.

The only way to make this transition is through major expansion of light rail infrastructure and major upgrading of existing rail infrastructure as a viable alternative to the crumbing highway and freeway systems.

The planned “NAFTA freeways,” including Interstate 5, being promoted throughout the country by governors, Congress and the paving industry to accommodate millions of bigger and heavier trucks from Mexico and Canada must be stopped and scrapped. The trucking industry will soon collapse when diesel fuel is too expensive to run the trucks. This can’t be too far off with diesel now at nearly $5 a gallon. Surely we must repair and upgrade some of the most vital bridges around the country, but we must simultaneously create a rail-based public transportation system.

The cheap and easily drilled crude oil is diminishing, while worldwide demand for oil is surging. Soon the trucking and airline transportation systems are likely to fail, and if we do not prepare for that inevitability there will be chaos and major economic disruption because of our dangerous dependence on these two petroleum-based systems for our every need.

Light rail and heavy rail is the safest and most sustainable transportation on the planet. In the case of passenger transport, hybrid and other hyper- mileage cars can compete with light rail only when used as carpool vehicles. Passenger rail achieves between 50 to 80 passenger miles per gallon, and about 70 to 100 grams of carbon per passenger per mile. A 40-mpg auto can achieve between 40 or 80 (with 2 occupants) passenger miles per gallon. The death rate for all rail is 0.7 deaths per billion miles traveled, while death rate for motor vehicles is more than 10 deaths per billion miles traveled.

The mindset that more and wider freeways are going to reduce pollution as well as reduce global warming gases flies in the face of science, history and basic logic. This is the kind of logic that has gotten us to this dire point.

Fifty years of building highways and freeways for autos and trucking without any regard to urban planning, the impact on our climate, the effects on our health as well as the impact to our psychological well being as a society has led us to this over dependence on a failed system. Let us not forget that scientists have been talking about global warming since the 1960s.

California is working on building a high-speed rail system from Sacramento to Los Angeles. Many major urban areas in the country are turning towards high-speed light rail. Why is the Northwest not forging ahead with a new high-speed rail system from Eugene to Seattle?

The new Amtrak rail from New York to Washington, D.C., has seen an increase in ridership of 20 percent from 2006-07, for a total of 3.1 million passenger trips. The new Amtrak route from San Jose to Sacramento is up 15 percent from 2006-07 for a total of 1.4 million passenger trips.

As constituents we must convince DeFazio — chairman of the House Subcommittee on Highways and Transit — as well as all other Oregon lawmakers that we must have a high-speed light rail system in the Northwest as well as upgrades in rail infrastructure throughout the nation. These new rail systems will not only provide thousands of new jobs but it will keep the Northwest and the country economically competitive with other economic superpowers in Asia and Europe.

We must demand rail infrastructure now. We either transition off of our addiction to petroleum by going to rail now or surrender to a complete collapse of our whole economic system and way of life.

Shannon Wilson of Eugene is chairman of the Many Rivers Group of the Sierra Club and co-director of Cascadia’s Ecosystem Advocates.

[Denny]

I think the politically smartest thing the rail lobby could do would be to match the highway lobby's strategy of invoking local area spending. For instance, when a congressman supports a highway spending bill, he knows that that contractors in his district wil share in the economic bonanza and create local jobs too.

If rail could do that, use a mix of smaller contractors for the railway construction, they could get some traction the same way.

Its a shame that so much stuff that gets Congressional approval goes on for the pettiest reasons, but that seems to be the American way.

[gampy]

Funny, I just read a Toronto Star article today concerning some of the issues talked about in this thread. The article is kind of "on-topic" so I thought I would share. Be sure to read the comments section as well.

THE GLOBAL VILLAGE RECONSIDERED
The end of travel

High oil prices are crippling airlines and travellers alike and we may only be at the start of a new, global class divide between the stranded and the mobile alike.

http://www.thestar.com/News/Ideas/article/471491

The story references Kunstler, who we all know loves his trains.

It's possible that rail would be a step backward, in regards to how we move goods and people around, and any real investment in rail, and bullet trains could be the wrong track to take (pun intended.)

I think roads, and small personal vehicles will be the dominant mode for many years to come. Moving goods, and people on trains requires energy as well. However, electric rail is much more efficient than electric cars, I think. At least as the technology stands today.

I think urban areas will benefit from developing light rail, as opposed to bus routes.

One big roadbloack to the development of more urban-suburban rail is the strip mall, and box store phenomenon. Hard to get the shoppers out to Wal-mart on the subway, and light rail lines.

The current urban design model, and economic model is not rail friendly.

[dinopello]

Joe Biden would be a good advocate for restoring Americas rail system

Biden "one of my very best friends," says much of their friendship was forged through those long Amtrak rides.

"Some mornings he would ride down on the train and literally buy the entire car and conductors coffee," says Claire DeMatteis, who worked for Biden for 10 years and sometimes rode the train with him. He'd get up and say, " 'Anybody want coffee?' And anybody who wanted got coffee."

He talks to passengers. He talks to the folks who take his tickets. He talks policy and family and everything in between. If he's waiting for a train, he talks to the folks at the ticket counter and to the shoeshine guy and the redcap guy and to Johnson, the newsstand cashier -- which is why, when Johnson found out Joe was joining Obama's ticket, she called her mother to brag about "my friend."

He throws parties for retiring conductors, and once had a crewman serenaded by bagpipes. For Biden's first day back at work following two operations for brain aneurysms in 1988, he took the train, naturally. "The engineer saluted him with a longer-than-usual toot of the train's whistle," UPI reported at the time.

"He used to have a picnic at his house for the train crews," says Rep. Rush Holt (D-N.J.), another frequent Amtraker.

[emersonbiggins]

This is a definite plus for the passenger rail movement.

[skyemoor]

July 2008 Amtrak Ridership Sets All-Time Monthly Record

WASHINGTON - Amtrak ridership in July Fiscal Year 2008 increased to 2,750,278, nearly a 14 percent increase, marking the most passengers carried in any single month in Amtrak's 37 year history. Total ridership for the Fiscal Year to date — October 1, 2007 - July 31, 2008 — reached 23.7 million, topping the 21.3 million from the same period last year. Total ticket revenue for the fiscal year to date reached $1.4 billion, a 14.1 percent increase over the same period in FY07. For the month of July, ticket revenue increased by 18.6 percent to $168 million.

"Increasing fuel prices, highway congestion, airline issues and environmental awareness continue to make intercity passenger rail extremely relevant and popular," said Alex Kummant, President and CEO of Amtrak. "In addition, we continue to work on service improvements and better on-time performance, which draws more ridership and revenue each month.

"Our record-setting ridership and ticket revenue in the month of July alone indicate we will end the year with approximately three million new passenger trips in FY09," he added.

[joelcolorado]

We haul all freight. I saw on television that a train can haul ONE TON of freight, 500 miles on one GALLON of fuel so yes, the future is going to pivot more on trains. HOWEVER, they are so over taxed on track space, we are going to have to have some huge infrastructure monies input

I think Amtrak type things will work in the east due to the big populations. Out here in the midwest, not enough folks to make it pay.

[emersonbiggins]

Chicago is still a major rail hub. I could see regional lines built out to Milwaukee (in fact, this one already exists), Quad Cities, Springfield, Indianapolis, and St. Louis in the distant future.

[patience]

We are northwest of Louisville on what was once "The Monon Line", now owned by the Southern RR, I think. The main line runs through town, there are 2 light industrial sidings, and there was up until a few years ago, a depot in the center of town for passengers and freight. Additionally, there were "interrurban" trolley-like runs, I've been told, though I don't know what sort of rolling stock. I hope to see that situation revived in light of PO, to give the town rail service, in lieu of so many trucks.

Currently, only heavy freight passes through, mixed freight and passenger service could easily become economically viable again, particularly in an oil emergency situation. The infrastructure is still there, and maintained. Lucky for us, I think.

[criticalmass]

People in places like WI should consider themselves lucky. WI still has the most active miles of RR in the US of any state and those tracks often go through small towns.

No, don't all flock there unless you like it COLD

Besides, that's MY fallback plan.

[IslandCrow]

Talk about 'Mass Transit' Check out this large picture Can you see the train???

Will they relax safety standards in the West as PO hits?

[dinopello]

California High Speed Rail Authority

Slice of Stimulus package going toward high speed train system

[criticalmass]

I think you'll see more light rail expanding out from centers like LA and Denver to other surrounding cities, these types of movements usually start out regionally and network into something bigger. I can see light rail running to Colorado Springs and Aspen in the near future, with likely expansion to Pueblo and North into Boulder and Longmont. Who is to say the "Front Range" wouldn't grow into another system with long high-speed track to Chicago...
You can see where I'm going with this. It's all driven by demand and that demand grows locally with demonstration when it comes to rail traffic.

[dinopello]

NPR-Stimulus Bill puts high speed rail on the fast track

[dinopello]

High Speed Rail drives Obama's Transportation Agenda

High-speed rail has emerged as the cornerstone of Obama's ambitious attempt to remake the nation's transportation agenda, which for half a century has focused primarily on building highways and roads. Nearly half of the $48 billion in stimulus money for transportation projects will go toward rail, buses and other non-highway projects, including $1.3 billion for Amtrak and its successful rapid rail service, Acela. The Transportation Department also would receive $2 billion more under Obama's proposed 2010 budget, most of it for rail and aviation improvements.