[Subjectivist]

Jane Goodall has been on the front lines of environmental degradation for decades, if anyone in the tropic lowlands has seen it she has.

[Sixstrings]

Obviously, since she's in the march, this 'old fashioned' enviro is very concerned about GW. Could it be that it is you that are the deluded one???

So why don't you ever post something that she has written, insted of algore? And Noam Chomsky?

Show me what Goodall has to say about it and I'd have some respect.

But it still gets down to the brass tacks of *what is it you want me to agree with you on, policy wise, after I agree with you that the sky is falling*?

WHAT are the actual concrete, policy, real ends of your movement? That's what I want to know and that's what I don't hear enough about. Let's just get to the point.

[dohboi]

"the sky is falling"

You've made it clear by this that the conversation is a non-stater from the beginning. Why should I waste my time?

[timmac]

[Sixstrings]

Buying "carbon credits" is just like how the catholic church used to sell "indulgences" -- paying some money for a free pass to go "sin."

Papal indulgence / carbon credit = same thing.

Climate Change As Religion: The Gospel According To Gore

Author Michael Crichton articulated the essence of this creed in a 2003 speech in which he observed:

There’s an initial Eden, a paradise, a state of grace and unity with Nature; there’s a fall from grace into a state of pollution as a result from eating from the tree of knowledge; and as a result of our actions, there is a judgment day coming for all of us. We are energy sinners, doomed to die, unless we seek salvation, which is now called sustainability. Sustainability is salvation in the church of the environment, just as organic food is its communion, that pesticide-free wafer that the right people with the right beliefs imbibe.

Yes, throughout human history, people have had to adapt to climate changes – some long, some severe, and many unpredictable. They have blamed themselves for bad seasons, believing they had invoked the displeasure of the gods through a large variety of offenses.

High priests of doom told them so, extracting oaths of fealty and offerings of penance for promised interventions on their behalf. In this regard, at least for some, it seems little has changed.

Nobel Physics laureate Ivar Giaever has called global warming a “new religion.” Its temple is built on grounds of faith rather than scientific foundations. Climate change is not Mother Nature’s retribution for human audacity to multiply and survive, any more than a tornado that destroys a particular church is God’s retribution for belonging to the “wrong” congregation” Get over it! It’s not all about us!

Climate changes and shorter-term weather events are the way nature balances itself, move heat and moisture around, and provide motivations for species to evolve. CO2 is a small but nonetheless important part of the system.

Anyone with even a modicum of knowledge about climate history recognizes that the Arctic experiences substantial climate swings about every 60-70 years due to entirely natural ocean oscillation cycles. It was very much warmer 1,000 years ago when Eric the Red and his band of Icelandic Viking settlers raised livestock on Greenland’s coastal grasslands. I certainly didn’t see any sheep or goats during my year there in 1959-60 as a military air traffic controller when temperatures reached 60 degrees below zero.

A study presented in the July 2008 issue of the journal Science notes that Greenland’s melt rate may have been recently decreasing once again when viewed over a long timescale. This research, led by Dr. Roderick S. W. van de Wal of the Institute for Marine and Atmospheric Research in Utrecht, was based upon 17 years of satellite measurements.
http://www.forbes.com/sites/larrybell/2011/04/26/climate-change-as-religion-the-gospel-according-to-gore/

Dohboi, it's such common sense, how do you answer the above??? WHY don't you, can't you answer it?

It's historical fact, how much warmer the earth was 1,000 years ago and those Vikings were living it up in "Green Land" and then as "climate change" ensuued -- cooling -- they slowly died out until the last Viking colonist went extinct.

Ok, so Greenland will be a bit greener again, it's a cycle you know?

And then the little ice age, in the late 1700s, with the Thames river frozen.

It just seems to me that yeah it gets hotter and cooler and yeah sometimes Greenland and the arctic lose all the ice, we just have these swings you know, it goes back and forth over centuries and millennia, hundreds of thousands of years, millions and billions of years.

I've seen this thing go from "global warming" to "climate change" to now, lately, "it's not even about how hot it is that's just one small factor." "It's not about how many hurricanes there are."

Well if that's not what it's about, then what's it about?

I've just got to say here, the weather in my parts has been *unusually perfect* for the last *ten darn years*. So what am I supposed to make of that. That the sky is falling? Complain about a good thing? So, no hurricanes, milder summers, just gorgeous weather overall -- so what is the problem here.

Good grief. Gore has been sounding the alarm since I was a darn kid, and even I'm too damn old now to worry about this sh*t. Ya know?

I mean really here, why don't we just admit the sky is not falling.

Maybe Al Gore will pull a William Shatner one day and tell the climate trekkies to "get a life," after making so much money off them:

[Sixstrings]

You know, I'm just sitting here thinking about this, and it really is true -- the weather has been garden of eden perfect and gorgeous ever since, about, 2004. I know that's anecdotal to me, but listen guys -- it's been perfect weather. No hurricanes. No close calls, even. Milder summers. Milder winters.

For the last ten years. So that's my local experience with "climate change," it's really nice.

This article says that really, there's been no warming at all for the last SEVENTEEN YEARS. So where is the darn climate "emgergency?"

Let's Be Very Clear Mr. Kerry: No Scientific Evidence Of 'Dangerous' Human Climate Influence Exists

First of all, let’s briefly review just a few real facts:

There has been no statistical global warming for the past 17 years…most of today’s high school students haven’t witnessed it in their lifetimes.

There is absolutely no credible scientific consensus that human activities, including fossil burning, are having a dangerous (or even measurable) influence on climate change…either for warming or cooling.

The climate crisis dogma-premised “sustainable energy” fetish has caused disastrous government policies in the U.S. and abroad, particularly in Europe where failures have produced economic distress.

Nations are abandoning the U.N.’s climate hype-promoted Kyoto carbon emission reduction commitments in droves as its Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change struggles to explain why its model-based predictions have been spectacularly disproven by Mother Nature.

Climate changes without any help from us…has for millions of years…and as we can expect, always will…with Ice Ages occurring during about 90 percent of the time.

Kerry’s Very Original Talking Points Speech Writer

Perhaps the content and tone of Secretary Kerry’s pronouncements will strike some people as familiar, dating back to the U.N.’s 1992 Earth Summit in Rio de Janeiro aimed at ginning up Kyoto Protocol support. Speaking at the opening ceremony, its organizing chairman, Canadian billionaire Maurice Strong, said “Every bit of evidence I’ve seen persuades me that we are on a [climate] course leading to a tragedy.”

Bear in mind here that this “persuading evidence” appeared just 12 years after three and one-half decades of flat or cooling temperatures had persuaded many scientists to conclude that the next Ice Age was nigh. Lots of major news publications trumpeted this alarm in headline articles.
http://www.forbes.com/sites/larrybell/2014/02/24/lets-be-very-clear-mr-kerry-no-scientific-evidence-of-dangerous-human-climate-influence-exists/

[dohboi]

"I know that's anecdotal" Yup. And worth about the nano-second you spent to opine it.

August was the hottest month on record globally. http://www.climatecentral.org/news/nasa ... gust-18031

And we're headed for the hottest year on record, even without a major El Nino developing: http://www.climatecentral.org/news/2014 ... cord-18041

I see the algore-isms are now flying fast and furious.

Keep it up folks. I do appreciate the bumps.

[timmac]

Buying "carbon credits" is just like how the catholic church used to sell "indulgences" -- paying some money for a free pass to go "sin."

Papal indulgence / carbon credit = same thing.

Climate Change As Religion: The Gospel According To Gore

Author Michael Crichton articulated the essence of this creed in a 2003 speech in which he observed:

There’s an initial Eden, a paradise, a state of grace and unity with Nature; there’s a fall from grace into a state of pollution as a result from eating from the tree of knowledge; and as a result of our actions, there is a judgment day coming for all of us. We are energy sinners, doomed to die, unless we seek salvation, which is now called sustainability. Sustainability is salvation in the church of the environment, just as organic food is its communion, that pesticide-free wafer that the right people with the right beliefs imbibe.

Yes, throughout human history, people have had to adapt to climate changes – some long, some severe, and many unpredictable. They have blamed themselves for bad seasons, believing they had invoked the displeasure of the gods through a large variety of offenses.

High priests of doom told them so, extracting oaths of fealty and offerings of penance for promised interventions on their behalf. In this regard, at least for some, it seems little has changed.

Nobel Physics laureate Ivar Giaever has called global warming a “new religion.” Its temple is built on grounds of faith rather than scientific foundations. Climate change is not Mother Nature’s retribution for human audacity to multiply and survive, any more than a tornado that destroys a particular church is God’s retribution for belonging to the “wrong” congregation” Get over it! It’s not all about us!

Climate changes and shorter-term weather events are the way nature balances itself, move heat and moisture around, and provide motivations for species to evolve. CO2 is a small but nonetheless important part of the system.

Anyone with even a modicum of knowledge about climate history recognizes that the Arctic experiences substantial climate swings about every 60-70 years due to entirely natural ocean oscillation cycles. It was very much warmer 1,000 years ago when Eric the Red and his band of Icelandic Viking settlers raised livestock on Greenland’s coastal grasslands. I certainly didn’t see any sheep or goats during my year there in 1959-60 as a military air traffic controller when temperatures reached 60 degrees below zero.

A study presented in the July 2008 issue of the journal Science notes that Greenland’s melt rate may have been recently decreasing once again when viewed over a long timescale. This research, led by Dr. Roderick S. W. van de Wal of the Institute for Marine and Atmospheric Research in Utrecht, was based upon 17 years of satellite measurements.
http://www.forbes.com/sites/larrybell/2011/04/26/climate-change-as-religion-the-gospel-according-to-gore/

Dohboi, it's such common sense, how do you answer the above??? WHY don't you, can't you answer it?

It's historical fact, how much warmer the earth was 1,000 years ago and those Vikings were living it up in "Green Land" and then as "climate change" ensuued -- cooling -- they slowly died out until the last Viking colonist went extinct.

Ok, so Greenland will be a bit greener again, it's a cycle you know?

And then the little ice age, in the late 1700s, with the Thames river frozen.

It just seems to me that yeah it gets hotter and cooler and yeah sometimes Greenland and the arctic lose all the ice, we just have these swings you know, it goes back and forth over centuries and millennia, hundreds of thousands of years, millions and billions of years.

I've seen this thing go from "global warming" to "climate change" to now, lately, "it's not even about how hot it is that's just one small factor." "It's not about how many hurricanes there are."

Well if that's not what it's about, then what's it about?

I've just got to say here, the weather in my parts has been *unusually perfect* for the last *ten darn years*. So what am I supposed to make of that. That the sky is falling? Complain about a good thing? So, no hurricanes, milder summers, just gorgeous weather overall -- so what is the problem here.

Good grief. Gore has been sounding the alarm since I was a darn kid, and even I'm too damn old now to worry about this sh*t. Ya know?

I mean really here, why don't we just admit the sky is not falling.

Maybe Al Gore will pull a William Shatner one day and tell the climate trekkies to "get a life," after making so much money off them:

I am giving your post a bump up Sixstrings, yes the weather has been hotter, colder, etc, etc, in the past 6000 years or more, why the GW folks don't recognize this and see that the modern day GW/Al Gore/Dohboi campaign is just a scam..

[dohboi]

Wow, you guys don't even realize that you are providing a satire of yourselves. Post on, ye gore-obsessed; post on.

[dohboi]

I should point out that I don't agree 100% with anyone about anything. But Gore has certainly been an early major figure to raise the issue to the general public. Early on he had a few repugs willing to stand up with him, even as late as the mid aughts; but then the Koch's and their teabagger minions got their hooks into all of them and pretty much gagged anyone straying from the nazi-like uniformity of the party line.

[dissident]

Two faced eco-wanker.



Gas

Non sequitur irrelevance.

What are you doing about your carbon footprint? Nothing. Thought so.

[onlooker]

I must post about how superficial and limited in scope is assessments that all is fine because the weather is fine. Well guess what all is not fine. The planet has been warming inexorably since the 1970's. To proclaim that the weather is fine is truly seeing the tree and not the forest. So, I for one would not deign to argue with someone who proclaims such nonsense. Oh and do notice those who are still trying to deny the reality of catastrophic global warming, the methane escaping, the ice melting, the hurricanes becoming stronger, the weather becoming more erratic and unpredictable , the ocean conveyor slowing down etc. I for one can only be amused by those who troll these forums and lack any credibility of any kind.

[radon1]

Al Gore is helpful in terms of raising awareness, but he will fiercely resist any relevant positive change if he is confronted with one.

[dohboi]

"he will fiercely resist any relevant positive change if he is confronted with one."

Perhaps, but just so we know what you are talking about here, could you elucidate on what you mean by: "relevant positive change"

Thanks.

[Sixstrings]

Al Gore is helpful in terms of raising awareness, but he will fiercely resist any relevant positive change if he is confronted with one.

Radon, you are absolutely 100% right and correct. It's nice to be able to say that!

P.S. Al Gore really isn't relevant anymore. This is algore stuff is just a nostalgia fight from the 90s. *Nobody* listened to Al Gore back in the 90s, the "inconvenient truth" stuff was like Matt Savinar's "Life As you Know It Is Gonna End! Real soon!"

The "soon" never happened. The warming leveled off. And so, Al Gore lost credibility.

He remained popular with the far left climate change crowd. I think overall, Al Gore is like a corporate face for the climate change issue. But seriously, there really are no regular Americans goo goo eyed over Al Gore and hailing him as Eco Hero.

I think younger people don't even know who he is, I sure haven't heard about him in the news in years. Last thing I heard about was his tv network failing badly and his fights with Keith Olberman.

[Withnail]

those who deny global warming in the face of basic physics and data are cranks or liars.

[Sixstrings]

Two faced eco-wanker.



Gas

Right on, Gas! I'm with ya!

You and me sure agree on a lot of things. I think we're both "every day Joe" common man types. We're the types that can smell a carpet-bagging snake oil salesman a mile away. We're the types that when we see gross hypocrisy, then we know exactly what kind of person that is and they are *full of it*.

Don't know how bad or crazy things are in the UK, but for over here Al Gore reminds me of our megachurch evangelical "prosperity gospel" preachers.

They live in megamansions. They have private jets. They drive Rolls Royces and rake in millions of dollars. They get divorced and remarried, and affairs. All while telling us to be humble, or if we buy their book or their special blessed holy water then we can get rich too.

An Al Gore is just like that -- do I as I say not as I do, and his "green capitalism" and "green exponential growth" is like "prosperity gospel" -- it's oxymoron.

He did a sales job on us with NAFTA, and sold us all down the river.

Then he moved on to climate change. Honestly, nobody listened the second time around.

[dohboi]

http://www.google.com/url?sa=i&rct=j&q= ... 9888840926



Dearest 6S, on your gripe in the inanely named thread that I choose not to 'bump'--yes, of course, it is very well known to anyone who has paid any attention to climate science that the earth has been gradually cooling for the last 50 million years or so (ever since the Indian sub-continent smashed into Asia and pushed the Himalayan Mt's up, whose erosion over the eons has acted to slowly sequester atmospheric carbon).



What that means is that everything that has evolved during these tens of millions of years, including humans, has evolved to live in that cooler world.

We have as a species managed to survive in cooler glacial periods and would presumably continue to be able to, especially given how predictable they are.

What we have never survived in is a much much warmer world.

If our goal was just adding enough carbon to the atmosphere to avoid the next ice age, well, we blew past that level quite a while ago.

We have already surpassed the temperature that all of civilization developed in, and we are now at CO2 levels beyond anything seen since humans evolved as a species, and going ever higher.

So yeah, if the next ice age--probably many thousands of years off in the natural progression of things--was something keeping you up at night, that is no longer something you have to worry about.

If you have any concerns about people living in a world where existing outside (or anywhere but caves) is impossible for more than a few minutes because it is too hot and humid, then you still have plenty to keep you up. And you and your progeny (if any) needn't wait for millennia for that reality, as things are shaping up.

[radon1]

what you mean by: "relevant positive change"

Reduction of his own footprint.