[rowante]

Whenever I am confronted with this sort of information I think of Japan. Surely if there is any new exotic energy source in existance Japan would be exploiting it.

Japan is perhaps the largest economy in the world that is the most dependent on imported energy. It has embraced nuclear energy to offset this fact like no other country (consider the great risks for building nuc. reactors in such a earthquake prone country). It is also a country that spends billions of dollars (Yen, whatever) on R&D of technology. If Japan (arguably the most technologically advanced country) can't shake it's dependancy on oil what hope is there for anywhere else.

[abelardlindsay]

A while back I heard about quantum or free-point energy being discussed on a radio program. It got me interested and I did a bit of research. There are many sites out there discussing the matter. Here is one of them.

I followed the whole zpe/cold fusion thing for a while and found it to be about 6 months away from a real breakthrough for the last 10 years.

One thing that could be tried is to defund all the string theorists and cosmologists and give all their grant money to real experimental scientists working on new energy technologies, etc.

I'm not a pro-physicist but, has anyone ever noticed that basic physics hasn't gone very far since the 40s? There's plenty of engineering that's gone on since then but in basic physics there's only string theory, and particle colliders but we're still using chemical rockets to get to space which have been around since at least the 30s and we're still using the internal combustion engine in one form or another which has been around since the late 1800s to get around. The electric motor was invented by Tesla in the earlier part of the century and works the same way with some refinements. It's all kind of disapointing that we blew all that oil and didn't come up with any new basic understanding of physics that had real technological significance in the last 50 years.

[Rincewind]

Disagree with you that basic physics hasn't gone far since the 1940s. We are curerntly living through a theoretical physics renaissance. Advances in the understanding of quantum physics have been significant.

Sure it is based on the work of the giants of the 1920s but boundaries continue to be pushed. As for cosmology what is happening at the moment is astounding. The discipline has moved from the theoretical to the experimental (thank you American Taxpayers for the Hubble and the WMAP).

You could argue that it is engineering that hasn't gone very far since the 1940s.

By the way I don't see how reducing funding for pure research is going to help us find new energy sources. If the US keeps reducing funding of pure science I don't see it retaining its world leadership in science.

See http://preposterousuniverse.blogspot.co ... 7427803840


Cheers Rincewind

[gg3]

Yeah, Abe, how could you say that..?

Verification of quantum entanglement or "nonlocality," Einstien's "spooky action at a distance." That one is *huge.*

Rincewind, if the flat-earth religious extremists in the US get any more powerful, the next thing we'll have to start worrying about is not being able to teach the germ theory of disease! Obscurantist fundamentalist extremism is the root cause of the decline of our scientific standing in the world. And it is getting worse.

[Graeme]

New science is opening the way to fuel-free power and propulsion and a turnaround of Global Warming. Conventional wisdom suggests we will be dependent on oil, gas, coal and nuclear power for the foreseeable future. Alternative energy is thought to be limited to solar, wind, fuel-cells and biofuels, etc. However, a revolutionary family of energy conversion technologies has emerged that is likely to prove extremely important. This breakthrough requires no fuel and produces no pollution. It opens a path to cost competitive electric power, automotive, and later aerospace propulsion.


Scientists have long been aware that the earth is immersed in an extremely dense sea of energy, which permeates every nook and cranny of the universe. It is only recently that it was realized that this huge reservoir could be an available source of usable energy. With some notable exceptions, e.g. Paul Dirac, we have been, like fish, unaware of the ocean.

Science employs a variety of names to describe this new field: space energy, vacuum energy, dark energy, the quantum vacuum, and Zero Point Energy (ZPE). Until about twenty years ago, scientists did not consider it possible to tap for practical use. Mathematics had suggested that great quantities of energy while theoretically present, could not be released in meaningful amounts.

Nikola Tesla, the genius who gave birth to alternating current, said in a talk to electrical engineers in 1891: "Ere many generations pass, our machinery will be driven by a power obtainable at any point in the universe. …Throughout space there is energy.”

The late Dr. Robert Forward, a physicist at Hughes Aircraft Corporation, published a seminal paper in Physical Review, in 1984, suggesting that ZPE could be tapped for the direct generation of electricity. Two years later the United States Air Force sought proposals for the utilization of ZPE for power and propulsion in a Small Business Innovation Research solicitation. Since that time other physicists have published papers suggesting that there is nothing to preclude the conversion of ZPE as a source of energy for power and propulsion.

Aviation Week and Space Technology, in the March 1st, 2004 issue, published an article headlined: “Aviation Giants Eye Zero Point Energy”. The following line reads: “Zero Point Energy emerges from the realm of science fiction, may be key to deep space travel”. The article goes on to suggest that “ZPE power plants might result in Mach 4 fighters, quiet 1,200 seat hypersonic airliners that fly at 100 mile altitudes as far as 12,000 miles in about 70 minutes, and 12.6 hour trips to the Moon”. The article reports that at least two major aerospace firms, and the Defense Advanced Research Projects Agency, are studying ZPE.

NASA data suggests that far more than 20 times the solar energy available, at the peak of a sunny day, can be extracted from the Zero Point Field per unit of surface area on earth – in excess of 20 kilowatts per square meter, around the clock, seven days per week.

Dr. Fabrizio Pinto, formerly a physicist with the Jet Propulsion Laboratory, has obtained U.S. Patents entitled: “Method for Energy Extraction”. He states: “ZPE is expected to exhibit infinite density and to be universally present, and might therefore be a limitless source of energy.” His firm seeks to convert ZPE by means of the Casimir Force, a physical manifestation of ZPE discovered in 1947. Lucent’s Bell laboratories announced, in 2001, that it successfully harnessed the Casimir Force to operate a miniature teeter-totter useful in advanced computer chips.

ZPE can also be extracted magnetically. Nobel physicist Werner Heisenberg is quoted as stating that we “could utilize magnetism as an energy source”. Hans Coler, a German inventor supported by Hitler’s Navy, according to a long since declassified British Intelligence Report that has been posted on the web, succeeded in building a working 6 kilowatt, solid-state, magnetic "space energy receiver”. This remarkable generator was destroyed by an Allied bomb in 1945. At the time, there was no comprehension as to the source of the energy. Coler wrote: “These fundamental researches…have made the first real and large breach in the citadel of present scientific belief.”

Prototype Zero Point Energy extraction devices have been constructed in numerous laboratories, throughout the world, during the past two decades. Our own firm has a team of outstanding engineers developing pre-commercial generators. One kilowatt Magnetic Power Modules™ are expected to be in production next year by a Strategic Partner, aimed at the market for portable generators, as well as homes. Modules can be combined for greater power output, in a manner analogous to solar cells. Compact automotive power systems, as well as megawatt modules, appear to be feasible. A large firm has expressed interest in small battery replacements powering laptop computers. Demonstration devices and toys are currently being developed to illustrate the feasibility of practical designs.

Although still not widely known, increasing numbers of scientists and engineers are working with this truly revolutionary energy technology. This fact heralds the beginning of a profound transition, leading beyond dependence on oil, gas, coal, uranium, and other fuels. Great numbers of new jobs will emerge, as will a major stimulus to the world economy. Energy independence is likely to be realized by all countries, large and small, rich and poor. Reversing air pollution, and slowing of global warming, is inherent in the achievement. To the surprise of many, this is likely to be a near-term event.

http://www.zpenergy.com/modules.php?nam ... e&sid=1357

[Jack]

Technology saves the day! Energy will become too cheap to meter, peak oil will never come, and exponential growth will take us to the stars.

Those who believe this should celebrate. I suggest going out and buying a big, beautiful SUV - say, an Escalade - and maxing out your credit cards. You deserve it!

Go on, you know you want to!

[Tanada]

I will beleive it when I can buy one at a price competitive with other energy supplies, until then it is all just sales pitch.

[satjeet]

I prefer to think that this will cause an irregularity in the space/time fabric and cause the local universer to unravel. (He,he,he) Better destroy the whole galaxy that just our little puny planet. We's the main show anyhow.

[turmoil]

technololgy will help, but the transition from cheap oil to any other form of energy is going to be messy. How messy is up to us.

[chuck6877]

TESLA technology research has been going on by the U.S. govt for decades up in Alaska right?

I remember Art Bell talking about it on Coast to Coast AM in the past.

I wonder if since Bush, Cheney, and co. seeing how bad things are getting in the near term, if they ordered the release of the technology to companies.

This would allow the OIL CRASH to be lessened and maybe the Rebublicans MIGHT not lose hold of power in 2008.

The only way they won't lose power in my opinion though is if McCain runs. He's the only Republican I'd vote for.

Chuck

[thor]

I have no doubt that ZPE has been studied rigorously, but doing something with it may be decades away. Meanwhile we have an energy crunch on our hands, bringing our economy to its knees and rendering millions of people jobless. Cutting-edge research in fancy equipped laboratories around the globe will be the first victims of our energy predicament, since we need to get our hands dirty to revitalize local communities and the food industry. There is no new form of energy source in sight, but we are peaking and our economies are on the verge of a total meltdown....

I'd guess that virtually all our research activites are possible because scientists are being fed by the oil economy; we are all being fed by the industry running on cheap energy. Sitting in a cosy office, working out theories and experimental research of physics can only be realised through cheap energy and copious supply of equipment. I welcome ZPE, but don't get your hopes up when PO rampages the planet.

[Sys1]

Sorry but i don't get a single thing about this ZPE??!? For now, it just reminds me a song from Queen : "It's a kind of magic".
If it's so great, why the hell are we still stucked with oil/gas/nuclear and working on thermonuclear energy?
If it works, then our civilization will skyrocket to STARWARS.

[Wildwell]

Ooo A free lunch?

Anyway, not so fast.

'That conceit is not shared by the majority of physicists; some even regard such optimism as pseudoscience that could leech funds from legitimate research. The conventional view is that the energy in the vacuum is minuscule. in fact, were it infinite, the nature of the universe would be vastly different: you would not be able to see in a straight line beyond a few kilometers. "The vacuum has some mystique about it," remarks Peter W. Milonni, a physicist at Los Alamos National Laboratory who wrote a text on the subject in 1994 called The Quantum Vacuum. "One has to be really careful about taking the concept too naively." Steve K. Lamoreaux, also at Los Alamos, is harsher: "The zero-point-energy community is more successful at advertising and selfpromotion than they are at carrying out bona fide scientific research.'

http://www.padrak.com/ine/ZPESCIAM.html

[Wildwell]

And if some are to be believed:

Dark Matters Surround Dark Energy

Two big stories from the world of zero point energy physics may portend the arrival of new weapons of mass destruction far more powerful and compact than atomic bombs. What is lurking behind the black budget projects?

http://www.pureenergysystems.com/news/2 ... index.html

[Madpaddy]

ZPE,

Sounds like the magic roundabout to me. I'll be thinking of ZPE in 2020 when I'm ploughing my field by hand and the next door neighbours have died of starvation.

[MacG]

Fair enough, ZPE might be there or might not be there. ZPE could be another Manhattan-project, changing the world forever, but it could just as well be another V2 project, with belivers shuddering in their bunkers hoping to win the war.

In any case, when considering our predicaments, I would tend to think that it would be prudent with a "Plan-B", just in the unlikely case ZPE wont deliver.

As far as I can judge (and I have studied quite some quantum theory) ZPE -if it is there- can not be brought out of the vacuum without putting quantum mechanics in forbidden states. It could also be just a mathematical anomaly.

If it is there and can be brought out, it could be heaven and it could be hell. Just imagine what the military could do with such devices!

[Wildwell]

If such a thing did exist (and I remain sceptical as it’s been talked about since modern physics has been studied) you could imagine it leading to other problems with population explosion, other resource depletion, far more waste, certainly more potential for getting things into the wrong hands. Think of the ballistic missiles that could be made? Or new ways to fight wars here and in space? Far more delocalising as globalisation spreads at an every increasing rates. Many companies would go bust overnight, because it would be so inexpensive to manufacture goods and services elsewhere.

Eventually they would have to have a world government and one currency whether people liked it or not. Most people would live in vast crowded cities.

A Panacea? Not on this planet.

It could be suggested that if aliens are visiting earth (I don't believe they do), it would be to stop the man taking his arguments and differences out elsewhere by getting hold of such things.

[khebab]

ZPE= Zero Energy

[Sys1]

khebab :

[Grimnir]

Scientists have long been aware that the earth is immersed in an extremely dense sea of energy, which permeates every nook and cranny of the universe.

Is that you, Obi-Wan?

Edit: The article above actually uses the phrase "dark side of the force".