[hvacman]

Pete,

In the Humboldt Nation, you should ride a Dolbeer steam donkey logging engine to get your wood. The PTO IS the drive -
Don't think it will run on weed, though. That would be a DolPOT toking engine....

Hey, ho, away we go, donkey riding donkey riding....

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steam_donkey

[vtsnowedin]

Pete,

In the Humboldt Nation, you should ride a Dolbeer steam donkey logging engine to get your wood. The PTO IS the drive -
Don't think it will run on weed, though. That would be a DolPOT toking engine....

Hey, ho, away we go, donkey riding donkey riding....

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steam_donkey

And then you could use a dragsaw to block the wood. My father used one in 1939 to block up his losses from the '38 hurricane. He used a Ford model T to power it using a belt from the drive wheel to the flywheel of the saw. A couple of the saw blades six feet long sat in a corner of the tool room for decades.
http://www.oldengine.org/members/levans/dragsaws/

[Pops]

If you ever get a chance to pick up the book "river runs through it" there is a good short story about logging in the early 20th.

[Lore]

Most of Michigan was clear cut with hand saws, oxen and steam trains. Not a skinny lumberjack in the bunch.

[vtsnowedin]

Most of Michigan was clear cut with hand saws, oxen and steam trains. Not a skinny lumberjack in the bunch.

I've never seen a fat lumber jack. While some are tall, broad, and incredibly strong and agile, fat does not apply or last long with someone so active. Lots of wiry little stump jumpers though. You have to be fast to keep up with a skid horse. When they do get older and put on some pounds it is from sitting in the seat of the log truck going from woods to mill.

[Shaved Monkey]

Subtropics ;no heating required,quite a few gum trees dropping branches and twigs daily,should keep the rocket stove stoked for ever.
Im not too concerned about PW here.

[Lore]

Most of Michigan was clear cut with hand saws, oxen and steam trains. Not a skinny lumberjack in the bunch.

I've never seen a fat lumber jack. While some are tall, broad, and incredibly strong and agile, fat does not apply or last long with someone so active. Lots of wiry little stump jumpers though. You have to be fast to keep up with a skid horse. When they do get older and put on some pounds it is from sitting in the seat of the log truck going from woods to mill.

I was being a little sarcastic there.

You could say the same for most people back in those days. My cousin and I were at a town hall a few years back with our wives for a quilt show that was taking place in a small village that was founded as a lumber camp . Scattered across the walls were old photos of the men who cut down the mighty Northern pine in them there old days. We remarked how they were all falling out of their trousers. A far cry from the portly fat cat lumber barons who's portraits are hanging up in the museum in Grand Rapids, MI.

[copious.abundance]

I'm 25 years old, and I recently realized that the economy of the world will head towards an irreversible collapse within the next 5 years. Industrial civilization is soon going to be doomed. By my 30s, the end of industrial civilization is within sight.

Would you care to place a large wager on that prediction?

[DesuMaiden]

I'm 25 years old, and I recently realized that the economy of the world will head towards an irreversible collapse within the next 5 years. Industrial civilization is soon going to be doomed. By my 30s, the end of industrial civilization is within sight.

Would you care to place a large wager on that prediction?

I can prove it to you. Here's a video on Youtube that says so.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8j4Tyy5nsQ8

I am pretty certain the world economy will collapse by 2020 due to peak oil, resulting in an economic depression that is worse than the Great Depression. Industrial civilization will be over by 2030. And a Mad Max scenario will persist from 2030 and onward.

[copious.abundance]

A doomer porn video is not proof of a future event. I could show you videos explaining how technological nirvana is going to arrive in 5 years, which would counter your claim, but just like your video, it would just be a prediction. Neither of us could be proven right until we wait the 5 years. If you are certain the world economy is going to collapse in 5 years, you should have no problem betting a large sum of money on that prediction.

So, put your money where your mouth is.

[Gorm]

back in the days forests were at their biggest risk when they were cleared for agriculture or when people wanted ships. Huge navys has been built and destroyed over the ages. Then forests dissaperd fast. Regarding for heating.. well, that takes time and will be less of a problem if there is a die-off. And global warming do mean we are using way less energy on heating were I live. Our houses are on one hand bigger nowdays, but on the other they are build to withstand serious cold (not so much in the usa I understand?)

Here in sweden there is recearch in turningn trees into ethanol, for fuel. We HAVE huge, well tended, forests, if they succed... well... then we have lots of fuel in a world that will be searcing for fuel. Thats not entierly a blessing. Guess we will have more "open areas".

[vtsnowedin]

I was being a little sarcastic there.

You could say the same for most people back in those days. My cousin and I were at a town hall a few years back with our wives for a quilt show that was taking place in a small village that was founded as a lumber camp . Scattered across the walls were old photos of the men who cut down the mighty Northern pine in them there old days. We remarked how they were all falling out of their trousers. A far cry from the portly fat cat lumber barons who's portraits are hanging up in the museum in Grand Rapids, MI.

Sarcasm noted: When men were working with draft animals in both the woods and fields they walked miles each day along with the other labor they were engaged in. My father who was born in 1896 was 5'-8" tall and never weighed more then 160 lbs even into the 1970s. As a teenager helping him on the farm I was 6'-4" and 180lbs. later as a bureaucrat I topped out at 290 and now have come back to 245 and the doctors want me to get down to 225. I suppose I should get another team of horses.

[Observerbrb]

A doomer porn video is not proof of a future event. I could show you videos explaining how technological nirvana is going to arrive in 5 years, which would counter your claim, but just like your video, it would just be a prediction. Neither of us could be proven right until we wait the 5 years. If you are certain the world economy is going to collapse in 5 years, you should have no problem betting a large sum of money on that prediction.

So, put your money where your mouth is.

Well, I don't mean to defend him, but I can't see the point of putting your money in a civilization collapse. If he is right, money will be worthless...

[KaiserJeep]

Desu, remember that most of the things you read on the Internet are not true, and a great many are distorted deliberately by someone with an agenda. If you are a student of History, for example, read and compare the history of any particular incident anywhere with actual History textbooks. Not only will you find multiple inconsistent versions online, but none will be the same as the hardcopy version. Hardcopy history is peer-reviewed, and if you select history texts with multiple editions, you can come pretty close to understanding what happened - although it's worth understanding that all stories change as they are retold. But no material changes faster or is as inaccurate as what you find online. Someone who only reads online sources is the most ignorant person in any room.

[Revi]

I think a half a cord per acre is the amount that a northern forest grows.

[vtsnowedin]

I think a half a cord per acre is the amount that a northern forest grows.

That would depend on how far north and soil quality. And of course much of what was once the most productive forest is now corn field leaving steep thin soiled areas as our remaining forest.
The USA today has about 740 million acres in forest and $27 billion
worth of wood is harvested each year as lumber ,plywood, paper pulp, wood chips for biomass chip board and cordwood. 77 thousand people are employed in the industry.
Whatever the actual growth rate is there is certainly not enough excess to heat fifty million northern homes.

[GHung]

Again we have predictions of the eminant 'collapse of civilization', and following rebuttles. Neither consider that our civilization is in the process of collapsing now. Just hard to see in real time. We've been robbing Peter to pay the costs of Paul's civilization for decades. It's clear that we are well into the age of too many claims on too few resources, where quantity trumps quality in everything from manufactured goods to cultural output (entertainment, 'news', our ongoing commentary and evaluation of all things; our overall situational awareness). Peak distraction and negligence. Collapse is a fractile process; not a moment in time. Welcome to your collapse; an orgy of consumption where everyone came.

[frankthetank]

Much of the worlds forests were cut down with hand tools and hauled away with oxen or horses, so the we need oil to cut it argument doesn't hold up. Before WW2 when chain saws were invented the standard on a pulp lumbering operation was a cord a day per man using two man crosscut saws and axes.
Hardwood forest in the north produce about one cord per acre per year on a sustainable basis. The problem becomes that there are just not enough acres to supply the present population. Sure you can heat all the houses in the rural areas surrounded by forest but there isn't enough extra to send to the cities and suburbs to supply them. The trees in the city parks and around the suburban houses will not last more then a year. Then the forests will belong to those that can defend them from thievery.

Agree. Although a lack of wood burning appliances will be in very short supply (along with the pipe/etc). Just another reason to use excessive amts of insulation/southern exposure and lots of glass. Also a good reason to invest in long undies, boots and possibly relocate to the south. I could see a mass migration south when the oil/nat gas/propane prices skyrocket or become unavailable (w00d will also become in very high demand/if there is anything left). The dumbest thing would be to try to heat a 4000sq ft mcmansion with a woodstove...but people will do it.