[SeaGypsy]

Go suck a duck Eugene, wanker.

[onlooker]

Eugene I think your quite wrong in your blanket statement about most here not believing in GW, quite the opposite most here do. If not convinced check some pertinent threads.

[PeterEV]

>>Problems have solutions, predicaments do not.<<

The problems will exist within the predicament. For instance, the predicament is whether you are on the Andrea Doria or the Titanic. Both ships sank. The problem is the same -- survival. How you address it maybe different. In both cases, it involved lifeboats.

After the initial impact of the Andrea Doria, only one person died. A total of 52 died. The rest made it to the lifeboats.

On the Titanic, what do you use if the lifeboats are all gone. Some lived after diving into the water but it involved climbing onto a nearby lifeboat. If there were no lifeboats around, what would you do? What floats? How do you stay warm? Thinking clearly and asking good questions might help getting a person through this problem within the predicament of a sinking ship.

[Apneaman]

Eugene, you're right that their future is grim, but if were not going to shoot them in the head what else is left? Truth and preparation or outright denial are the only choices left. That's what a predicament really is - very little choice. It's like having a terminal illness. All that's left is deciding how to spend the remaining time.

[SeaGypsy]

Eugene is one of those horrid jerks if you neglect to moan in horror at AGW must be you are a soft brained denialist. Obviously hasn't read enough to comment here, hence my suggestion of duck based fun.

[Cid_Yama]

It's like having a terminal illness. All that's left is deciding how to spend the remaining time.

And that's it. The truth in a nutshell.

So how will you spend it? Waste your time bashing willfully ignorant imbeciles who will never change?

I admit, there is some appeal to that if you have nothing better to do, especially if they are disseminating disinformation that may take the choice away from others.

But what about all the fun things you never did, because there were more important and useful things to do.

There will never be a better time than now.

It's time for everyone to pursue their bucket list. Or create one if they haven't.

[dohboi]

Can we keep it to low-carbon-footprint bucket lists?

Frankly, the whole concept of 'bucket lists' strikes me as another manifestation of our me-me-me culture and generation.

But maybe that's just me me me??

[Lore]

If we're dead and they're dead, I guess there won't be much of a conversation.

[GregT]

Thinking clearly and asking good questions might help getting a person through this problem within the predicament of a sinking ship.

Our predicament is a little bit more complicated than surviving a boating accident.

[Tanada]

Thinking clearly and asking good questions might help getting a person through this problem within the predicament of a sinking ship.

Our predicament is a little bit more complicated than surviving a boating accident.

In some ways that is true, however in another way the analogy is quite apt. The first three or four lifeboats launched by the Titanic were far below capacity, if every boat had been launched full to capacity in a timely manner 750 or so more would have survived, especially if they had stuck to women and children first because they are in general lighter and you can fit more in a boat.

By the same token if you have the financial means you can acquire title to property in locations that are the best bet for long term habitability in a semi-tropical world. There is a high probability that the Mountains of Columbia, currently used to grow coffee and cocoa will remain well within the bounds of human tolerance and paleoclimate reconstructions show they used to get a lot more rain than they do now. Or you could go for mountain in Vermont, or Newfoundland, or Alaska depending on how fast you think changes will happen and how hardy you are today. Just like the passengers on the Titanic you have choices to make, you can help, hinder or ignore the survival of those caught in the predicament.

[onlooker]

Cid, thanks for that advice for all of us to create our bucket lists. I hope you and everyone on this site can find rewarding and enjoyable things to do in the time we all have left here on Earth.

[Cid_Yama]

Tanada, the problem with mountain top locations is that following CIEs in the paleoclimate records, oxygen levels dropped. Even to the extent that at one time, land elevations separated groups of species leading to differentiation much like oceans have done in the recent paleoclimate record.

Species became squeezed between low oxygen levels at elevation and hydrogen sulfide at sea level.

Something that occurred to me that we might want to mention to the young ones is the threat from government during times of social disruption and polarization.

Trust in the Government to be the good guys is unwarranted and dangerous.

Kent State, where the National Guard fired into a crowd of unarmed students peacefully protesting the War, killing four, comes to mind as well as a similar incident at Jackson State.

At Kent State, the students had run from the National Guard, and later began regrouping on another hill some distance from them, when the incident happened.

The incident was misrepresented in the media (There was no riot or violence of any kind except from the National Guard), then swept under the rug. Same with Jackson State which was also racially motivated.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hkg-bzTHeAk

When the guns are all in the hands of the bigots and zealots, and sanctioned by government, such incidents WILL happen, FREQUENTLY.

[Keith_McClary]

Lots more on this theme.

[SeaGypsy]

Cid, the old world fauna of Australia, particularly marsupials- still display very distinct altitude requirements primarily based on temperature. Arboreal mammals generally have been moving uphill in droves for at least a 30+ years.

[GregT]

By the same token if you have the financial means you can acquire title to property in locations that are the best bet for long term habitability in a semi-tropical world.

Thanks Tanada,

Already done that. Probably won't do my kids any good though if we don't curb our fossil fuels addiction. We're already on track for a 4 to 6 degree rise by the middle of the century, without a runaway event kicking in. I've heard many in the scientific community talking of 10-16 degrees by 2100. Game over for the vast majority of life on this planet. Us humans are thought to be among the first species to go.

We're going to have to do much better than just manning the life boats.

[SeaGypsy]

So do you generally believe the most dire predictions as a matter of course? Lots of people are scientists.

[Tanada]

By the same token if you have the financial means you can acquire title to property in locations that are the best bet for long term habitability in a semi-tropical world.

Thanks Tanada,

Already done that. Probably won't do my kids any good though if we don't curb our fossil fuels addiction. We're already on track for a 4 to 6 degree rise by the middle of the century, without a runaway event kicking in. I've heard many in the scientific community talking of 10-16 degrees by 2100. Game over for the vast majority of life on this planet. Us humans are thought to be among the first species to go.

We're going to have to do much better than just manning the life boats.

While some people talk about 10-16 C rise the paleoclimate record shows that negative feedbacks kick in when we get to about 10 C over the per-industrial temperature of 13 C. 12 C above 1850 was rarely if ever exceeded though there were two brief forays of 13 C above 1850.

The Earth has cycled between 25 C and 10 C global average temperature for 99 percent of its existence. When we are in a massive glaciation we touch that lower boundary, and we are in the everything melted greenhouse we touch the top boundary. Below is a graph that is more detailed the closer it gets to present because more evidence is available for the recent past than the distant past. If you can't see the whole thing just click on the link.

http://mariusdumas.co.za/Articles/Rad_He2.gif

[onlooker]

Tanada, again I defer to others as my expertise is limited but according to a book I perused by Mark Lynas "six degrees our future on a hotter planet". Will not the point you made of negative feedbacks kicking in at 10C above pre-industrial averages be a moot point, considering that according to this book 6C above this pre-industrial base temperature would put us in a mode incompatible with conditions to sustain higher life forms particularly the ones living now adapted to living in these relatively cooler conditions such as humans. Besides the higher ranges of temperature near the 25C boundary , were they not mostly during the early stages of Earth's formation when molten lava and volcanic forces were shaping the Earth?

[PeterEV]

Hi Hawkcreek

>>...I am one of those who ran away to the woods.<<

You can always run back especially if someone on the internet tells you it's safe to do so...