[Newfie]

Oh so many comments.

While I find Cogs position odd and disturbing it is his position and I find Cog has usually thought such things through. I suspect that Cog has a particular theological perspective that is rare on Peak Oil, but less so among the population. Could be wrong.

Holden's comment is really pretty coconservative. It may sound shocking but think about it, most of us here believe far worse will befall humanity and Earth. So it's a very mild statement.

Is this the advice Obama is getting? If so it may be why he is so silent on these matters.

Or...is it the most Holdren is allowed to say?

In either case it's pretty lame that 7-1/2 years into the HOPE presidency this is the best kind of data we are getting out of it.

Yes, folks die of heat stroke all the time. So if Holdren was trying to get attention it's a poor analogy or example to use. Very few workers labor outdoors and the people in power are not directly effected by it. So who cares? It a it me or mine.

Now if he said "heat waves of sufficient magnitude to disrupt the food production and the overall trade balance causing multinationals to loose trillions" an approximate equal statement, then it would maybe have had some weight.

Idiots. I feel like Custer, surrounded by idiots!

[dohboi]

I think he assumed that most of us were smart enough to realize that, even if we don't happen to work outside for our livelihood ourselves, we depend on those workers to grow and harvest our food, build and fix our buildings and roads...

If fewer and fewer people can work outside without dying, we are all going to be dead pretty soon.

Not to mention increased use of AC will be another feedback, requiring more electricity some of which will no doubt still be from ff...

The places where these types of temperatures will hit first and hardest may be a bit different from what people think. One of the highest wet bulb temperatures ever recorded in the US was in Appleton, Wisconsin, of all places. where it went over 33 C (92 F) in 1995 (anything over 34 C/95F for more than a couple hours: everyone dies, even if they are in the shade in high winds at complete rest).

https://books.google.com/books?id=0QTSB ... in&f=false

[Newfie]

Well then he assumed wrong.

As Tanda noted elsewhere, take 0 random NYers. Better, take 10 random Oakies.

As the Presidents Science Advisor he is de facto his Science Spokesman. Piss poor bit of communicating there. You gotta convince the non believers.

[dohboi]

"he assumed wrong"

Apparently so. But pretty much no matter what he says, he is not likely to convince most of the 'non-believers,' since their beliefs aren't based on truth or logic or science.

[Ibon]

I got it. When I sell my soon to be flooded South Florida home I will take the proceeds and buy land near a limestone cave. Subterranean temperatures quickly reach 55 degrees a few meters below the surface. From my cool shelter I will be able to continue optimistic forecasts for years to come here on peakoil.com about all the love and devotion coming soon to transform our culture. haha

[dohboi]

So they were right when they said that we are advocating going back to "living in caves"!!??

[Subjectivist]

I got it. When I sell my soon to be flooded South Florida home I will take the proceeds and buy land near a limestone cave. Subterranean temperatures quickly reach 55 degrees a few meters below the surface. From my cool shelter I will be able to continue optimistic forecasts for years to come here on peakoil.com about all the love and devotion coming soon to transform our culture. haha

I read a few years ago about a company planning to build a huge server farm to proved cloud storage somewhere around Boulder, Colorado. The theory was because even in mid summer the temperatures in the area are rarely over 65 degrees F their annual cooling costs would be very low compared to the competing sea level server farms in California. I don't know how that plan turned out, but it had an interesting theory to back it up. Maybe you can put a server farm in your big cave and profit directly off the internet?

[evilgenius]

I suppose what this means for the mid-term is mass movement of people. They will go to where the rumors say it is better to live. Once those kinds of rumors get started they are very hard to snuff out, even if all of the people who went there fell into a hole and were never heard from again. Can it be that economics and war will cease to be the largest drivers of such mass movement of people? If so, what would that mean for the time frames within which these movements take place?

[Lore]

I think it's pretty obvious the economies across the globe will crash, permanently. It'll be back to Barter Town as people migrate from pillar to post.

[Ibon]

Can it be that economics and war will cease to be the largest drivers of such mass movement of people?

Yes. To be replaced by consequences of human overshoot and limits that arise in each bio-region that will force this migration. This will be so disruptive that the economic system as we know it as well as the role of government will be transformed. Government will have to administrate the refugee camps and the resettling of millions. The rationing of resources. These physical consequences will trump any ideological consideration about the role of government. This will be crisis management for decades until some plateau is reached which could be multi generational. This is part of what transforms a culture.

Think about it. In the face of these changes there is no longer the polarization that we currently see as to the role of government and the split of conservative / liberal. The polarization dissolves away as part of crisis management.

[Newfie]

Ibon,

Buy a cave in Belize, with a small creek coming out!

Some of them are really pretty amazing.

[Ibon]

Ibon,

Buy a cave in Belize, with a small creek coming out!

Some of them are really pretty amazing.

Where the creek flows only a few hundred meters to the sea, in a protected bay. I will welcome you and your wife with cave cooled coconut water.

[Lore]

Think about it. In the face of these changes there is no longer the polarization that we currently see as to the role of government and the split of conservative / liberal. The polarization dissolves away as part of crisis management.

It will also bring back the old tribal, race, ethnic and role differences between women and men. A giant cultural step backwards.

[KaiserJeep]

-snip-

I read a few years ago about a company planning to build a huge server farm to proved cloud storage somewhere around Boulder, Colorado. The theory was because even in mid summer the temperatures in the area are rarely over 65 degrees F their annual cooling costs would be very low compared to the competing sea level server farms in California. I don't know how that plan turned out, but it had an interesting theory to back it up. Maybe you can put a server farm in your big cave and profit directly off the internet?

Moore's Law caught up with them. The average server "farm" today is one large rack with integral cooling. Each slot inside contains multiple physical servers and each physical server services anywhere from a few to a few hundred virtual web servers depending upon web traffic. These integrally cooled racks don't even need computer rooms - just enough space to have service clearances, and an exhaust duct to blow hot air out.

The largest and most powerful (unclassified) scientific computer (PEREGRINE) exists within the NREL (National Renewable Energy Laboratory) within eleven water cooled racks - and the warmed water is then used to heat the building that houses the computer. It is used to simulate the behavior of the National Electrical Grid when various renewable energy sources are attached in various topographies.

No, not one of my designs. When they kicked off the project, I was already relegated to managing a group of aging engineers who were sustaining my earlier computer designs - mostly figuring out how to substitute newer, faster, and cheaper repair parts for the originals.



In this view, the green underfloor piping is part of the building's chilled water loop - and the heat is pumped out of it and concentrated for hot water and space heating within the building.

[Ibon]

Think about it. In the face of these changes there is no longer the polarization that we currently see as to the role of government and the split of conservative / liberal. The polarization dissolves away as part of crisis management.

It will also bring back the old tribal, race, ethnic and role differences between women and men. A giant cultural step backwards.

Not necessarily. Remember the crisis of WWII when women first entered into male dominated professions. Crisis breeds novel arrangements.
Practicality trumps social stereotypes. Folks that have high emotional intelligence and excel at cooperation will gain status and be put to work. Those holding on to divisive stereotypes will not get the best tents at the refugee camp.

Come on Lore, step out of your negative Eeyore whining and say something, just once, that is a bit positive . You are one of the most singular negative people on this site........ stretch a little....it feels good.

[Outcast_Searcher]

Climate change is a major threat to human health, with extreme heat likely to kill 27,000 Americans annually by 2100, according to a report released Monday ...

Obviously this isn't good. But in a world with well over 7 billion people, projected to be a good 9 billion people by 2050, 27,000 is a piddly number.

By then, the problems from food, pollution, flooding, and (very likely) disease related to warming will completely dwarf such a number.

Today, about 2.5 million people die JUST in the US each year and over 55 million die globally each year.

[dohboi]

I'm pretty sure that's just for the US. And yeah, I'm quite sure this is a vast understatement.

And yes again, other problems cause by GW will likely cause much more damage much sooner.

But I'm not sure people realize fully that just existing outside, and especially trying to work in the heat, will become more and more lethal to more and more people, till pretty much anyone out in the heat in certain areas in certain times of the year will end up dead. This is one of the many horrors coming at us. Not the first, perhaps, and not the most lethal yet, especially in most parts of the US. But still on its way. And ever more certainly with each billion tons of CO2 we dump into the atmosphere.

[clif]

How's about we put 2 and 2 together here;

If we are suffering from 95 degree wet bulb conditions,

so are the other animals and plants

what happens to them?



Also what happens to the food they were supposed to be for us??????????????????????????????????????

[Newfie]

Cliff, you are right, and they don't have AC or artificial caves for retreat.

That's why statements like Holden's irk me, I hear them as a form of greenwashing. They SOUND like they are meaningful, but in reality they minimize the threat, put us back into a coma.

I know it's not PC to shout "the sky is falling" or "fire" in a theater. But if the sky IS falling, or there is IS a fire, well then you have an obligation to say so, LOUDLY.

[Ibon]

That old saying in Mexico......solo gringos y perros caminan por la tarde....

Increase the siesta time from 10-4pm. Work shifts start at 5:00am - 10:00am and then from 4:00pm - 7:00pm

Today we are tearing down the roof of our old wharehouse as we will be putting up an owners cabin here. At 6500 feet the temperature at 3:00pm was 77 degrees.