[C8]

I have seen many sets of photos on PO, environmental decline, consumerism, etc. But I haven't seen a collection that hits you in the gut as hard as this one. The quality level is very high, and many photos explain a whole theory without any words at all. You will be moved by these.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... lanet.html

[Loki]

That was depressing.

[Newfie]

Thanks.

[Outcast_Searcher]

First, these aren't primarily "peak oil" photos, they're "population overshoot / damage to the planet photos".

Second, they appeal to emotion, but not to mathematical or scientific rigor. (Given the state of modern education, that may be completely necessary, when talking to the masses.)

Let's take the second to last photo about Mexico City as an example. The caption says "population 20 million, density 24,600/mile (63,700/square kilometer)".

a). What does 24,600 per mile mean? Do they mean 24,600 per SQUARE mile?

b). Assuming they mean square mile in a and aren't just babbling nonsense, the idea of an average square kilometer having well over twice the people of an average square mile in the same city is COMPLETE nonsense. A square kilometer is WELL under half a square mile.

Spending about ONE minute on the internet to check Mexico City population density, I get two decent looking sites that are in rough agreement. Here is the one that seemed the most credible, offhand:

http://www.mexicocityvibes.com/mexico-city-population/

MEXICO CITY POPULATION DENSITY

25400 PER SQUARE MILE
9800 PER SQUARE KILOMETRE

It looks to me offhand like they did the math BACKWARDS, based on the ratio of population they give, and didn't bother to check their facts/computation for even ONE minute, based on their population per square mile being in rough agreement with reality.

So to test my backwards math hypothesis:

1 km = roughly .62 miles

http://www.metric-conversions.org/lengt ... -miles.htm

So 1 km squared - roughly .62 * .62 miles or .3844 square miles.

.3844 * 63,700 bad figure the photo gives = 24,486.

Bingo -- close enough using round figures to call it a match.

I realize that photographers aren't expected to know much math. But shouldn't published materials have EDITORS with access to people who know how do do arithmetic, assuming they expect to have a little credibility in what they publish?

Or not. How can actual data compete with pictures of dead animals?

[Apneaman]

Outcast_Searcher, that's some world class whinning and hair splitting. Your a perfect example of how denier-corns are running out material. Desperate and pathetic. I'm almost embarrassed for you..............almost.

[Keith_McClary]

Outcast_Searcher, that's some world class whinning and hair splitting. Your a perfect example of how denier-corns are running out material. Desperate and pathetic. I'm almost embarrassed for you..............almost.

I am not a denier-corn, but the obligatory image of plumes of H2O mist from cooling towers always bugs me.

[dolanbaker]

Outcast_Searcher, that's some world class whinning and hair splitting. Your a perfect example of how denier-corns are running out material. Desperate and pathetic. I'm almost embarrassed for you..............almost.

I am not a denier-corn, but the obligatory image of plumes of H2O mist from cooling towers always bugs me.

Exactly, mist rising from chimneys & cooling towers or naturally it still looks like mist.

[dissident]

The denier-corns are missing the actual chimney stack not spewing mist but genuine smoke in that photo. LOL.

[Tanada]

The cooling towers emit steam, just warm steam.

The central chimney emits the shyte from coal / biomass / whatever the station burns. (Gas CHP plants are cleaner - just a bit)

Coal is being burned in the above photo, which seems to be Fiddlers Ferry power station just south of Liverpool, England. This station burns coal imported to the UK mainly into Liverpool from Russia, Poland etc. We have shut most of our coal mines in the UK, just a handful left and they are under closure notice. Another story for another thread.

Still, sad pictures indeed, especially the plastic shyte in the sea - now this is indeed disgraceful.

Time to BAN all plastic as throw away packaging, can be done. Use recyclable glass containers (that can be returned cleaned and re-used just like years ago) and more paper / cardboard that if it ends up thrown in the wrong places it will just naturally bio-degrade and cause little nuisance.

BAN ALL PLASTIC THROW AWAY PACKAGING WORLD-WIDE IMMEDIATLEY.

Gas

I am easily old enough to remember the era before plastic everything. The butcher shop displayed the wares in a glass case, then after you picked the ones you wanted they would wrap it in wax paper and put the price on it for the cashier at the front of the store. When you completed your purchases everything was loaded into a brown paper bag.

Plastic wrap and foam trays allow the markets to pre-package the meat and still let you pick through and choose the one you want. Even worse a lot of them now do the same with fresh fruits and vegetables. I have not seen a paper shopping bag in quite some time now but we shop with our own cloth bags for most trips to the store.

I would heavily tax many 'convenience' uses of plastic like these, it would be greatly better for the environment and you would actually interact with the Produce and/or Butcher shop workers more and perhaps see them as humans instead of just things working in the back ground.

[careinke]

My green bin would always be empty.

[Outcast_Searcher]

Outcast_Searcher, that's some world class whinning and hair splitting. Your a perfect example of how denier-corns are running out material. Desperate and pathetic. I'm almost embarrassed for you..............almost.

If I were you I'd be embarrassed by not being able to spell "whining", but name calling doesn't require education. Congratulations.

I'm NOT a corny, no matter how many times your ilk claims I am. I am a moderate, and look at trends and data, not emotion, for "evidence".

I find it amusing how upset the far left gets when the GOP is ignorant about science and uses things like intuition instead of science to preach the gospel of "AGW is a fraud". And they're right. Much of the GOP does do this, especially the far right, and it is vacuous.

But somehow when the other side does it, appealing to emotion instead of logic, to the extent they can't bother to do BASIC proof reading, and they apparently don't even have a BASIC clue behind the arithmetic behind what they're portraying -- then it is a terrible "thought crime" and "desperation" to point that out.

I guess it would be too much for EITHER side to present things in a careful, logical, THOUGHTFUL manner, where what is said is actually considered? Of course, why do that? It's not like either side actually expects the other side to listen to them...

[Outcast_Searcher]

Cool down dude. The single math mistake does not discount the horrid state of the natural world. Since when is peak oil not a subset of totally screwing the pooch? If the earth were home to a few less billion humans, then peak oil would't have already occurred. It wouldn't even be a sane topic of discussion. Peak oil is a consquence of too many of us using too much stuff.

The state of the planet (pollution, overcrowding, climate change) are certainly symptoms of resource over-usage. What we're doing to the planet is terrible. Since we don't know if we've peaked or when we'll peak, why bring peak oil into the picture when we're talking about basic facts? IMO, you're weakening the position the book is taking -- that we're wrecking the planet, with speculation.

There is PLENTY to damn fossil fuel over-use with pollution, without having to argue about when we'll have used half the available oil (which changes each decade, as technology advances).

[careinke]

My green bin would always be empty.

So would mine --- BUT

A couple of years ago our local council was selling very cheap composting bins, so I bought one and started composting. Food scraps OK read the blurb. One day I walked to the composter and a large rat jumped out - it had made a nest attracted by the "goodies" in there.

So off to the tip with the composter & contents (messy job). All my green compostables now go in the green bin and then the council composter. No more rats. (except the two legged variety down in Westminster !!!).

Gas

Hence cats.