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Today's giant new oil discoveries -- largest in 150 years

General discussions of the systemic, societal and civilisational effects of depletion.

Today's giant new oil discoveries -- largest in 150 years

Unread postby Plantagenet » Fri 03 May 2013, 21:13:32

The oil biz has been around for about 150 years. The glory days of oil exploration were thought to be back in the 1950s and 1960s, when geologists were discovering more than 20-40 billion bbls of oil per year, peaking in 1960 when 60 billion bbls of oil discovered.

The pace of discovery of new oil reserves seemed to be progressively slowing through the 70s, 80s, 90s, and 00s. However now, thanks to frakking, giant new reserves of oil are being found.

Today's oil discoveries are giant sized----something not seen since the 1960s

In addition to the Bakken and related shale oil deposits in the Williston basin (7.4 BILLION bbls) and the Eagle Ford in Texas (25 BILLION bbls) now there is the Spraberry/Wolfcap Shale in Texas (maybe 50 BILLION BBLS!!!), the Monterey Shale (15 BILLION bbls) and some deposits in Canada that may be even larger.

These new giant Shale Oil deposits rival the giant oil fields found 50-60 years ago. Add it all together and the oil deposits being found right now in shales may be the largest amount of new discoveries ever in the 150 year long history of the oil biz.

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More giant oil deposits are being discovered right now in tight shales than has ever been found in the 150 year long history of the oil biz.
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Re: Today's giant new oil discoveries -- largest in 150 year

Unread postby SeaGypsy » Fri 03 May 2013, 21:49:56

The beach on the Alaska north slope in 50 years? :lol:
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Re: Today's giant new oil discoveries -- largest in 150 year

Unread postby Rod_Cloutier » Sat 04 May 2013, 01:09:24

I'm sure if we were to drill all the onshore and offshore oil in and around Antartica we could extend the industrial project one century further.

That is if catastrophic climate change doesn't destroy modern agriculture first. (Which is very likely)

Lots of oil, cars, skyscrapers, but no food- not a future I want to live through!
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Re: Today's giant new oil discoveries -- largest in 150 year

Unread postby ralfy » Sat 04 May 2013, 02:55:49

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Re: Today's giant new oil discoveries -- largest in 150 year

Unread postby Pops » Sat 04 May 2013, 08:50:14

The glut of oil reserves is so huge I only pay $75 to fill my tank! Gas buddy says the average is $3.51 but hey! it was higher in 1918!

Makes one wonder why anyone could ever be short of water, after all the earth is covered with water "reserves"... or for that matter why steel is so expensive since the earth is virtually made of iron "reserves"... same with nitrogen fertilizer, heck nitrogen "reserves" are 80% of the atmosphere...

The mind boggles!

Gasoline usage in the US fell another 3.5% last year, the way this glut is going we'll all be walking before you know it!

If we have anywhere to go...
The legitimate object of government, is to do for a community of people, whatever they need to have done, but can not do, at all, or can not, so well do, for themselves -- in their separate, and individual capacities.
-- Abraham Lincoln, Fragment on Government (July 1, 1854)
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Re: Today's giant new oil discoveries -- largest in 150 year

Unread postby dorlomin » Sat 04 May 2013, 09:25:16

We are hardly discovering these reserves. We are living in a world where the price is so high they come accessible and price is driving technology to reduce cost.

They rate they can be extracted at is not great compared with the reserve size so they contribute but do not replace conventional fields.
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Re: Today's giant new oil discoveries -- largest in 150 year

Unread postby Econ101 » Sat 04 May 2013, 10:42:40

dorlomin wrote:We are hardly discovering these reserves. We are living in a world where the price is so high they come accessible and price is driving technology to reduce cost.

They rate they can be extracted at is not great compared with the reserve size so they contribute but do not replace conventional fields.


Price is not a reflection of actual physical scarcity, it is a reflection of a market scarcity. We have all the oil we need in the ground. The market will depend on whats paid for it.

The oil and everything else including the morgan silver dollars are going up in value when measured against the american paper dollar. Everything is expensive and always has been. The heavy tax burden on gasoline uncouples it from the cost of oil as do all the heavy regulations and taxes on refineries engaged in cracking the crude down to concentrate and transform it to more useful products.
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Re: Today's giant new oil discoveries -- largest in 150 year

Unread postby Econ101 » Sat 04 May 2013, 10:52:45

seagypsy wrote:The beach on the Alaska north slope in 50 years?


That is an interesting picture. Oil development in the old days was very inefficient. Look at the spacing, now there would be at least 1/4 mile between rigs.

The derricks themselves look like they are used once and trashed. They are simple but its very wasteful and expensive to build so many when 1 could have drilled out that entire formation.

Obviously that oil was very shallow. Those drilling rigs dont look like they could do much. They are probably of the vinatage that pounded the bit rather than the unconventional rotating bit and the resulting production of the unconventional oil yet to come?
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Re: Today's giant new oil discoveries -- largest in 150 year

Unread postby Beery1 » Sat 04 May 2013, 11:07:59

Plantagenet wrote:In addition to the Bakken and related shale oil deposits in the Williston basin (7.4 BILLION bbls) and the Eagle Ford in Texas (25 BILLION bbls) now there is the Spraberry/Wolfcap Shale in Texas (maybe 50 BILLION BBLS!!!), the Monterey Shale (15 BILLION bbls) and some deposits in Canada that may be even larger.

More giant oil deposits are being discovered right now in tight shales than has ever been found in the 150 year long history of the oil biz.


The largest oil fields in North America are still the Cantarell in Mexico and the Prudhoe Bay field in Alaska. Their estimated recoverable oil was initially much higher, but their combined total recoverable oil is now estimated at just 31 billion barrels. Your shale oil plays are just coming online, so (just like the early days of Cantarell and Prudhoe Bay) they have way too much hype associated with them for any published figures to have any basis in reality. If you believe in them, by all means invest. Just don't come crying to me when you find the reality doesn't match the hype.
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Re: Today's giant new oil discoveries -- largest in 150 year

Unread postby Econ101 » Sat 04 May 2013, 12:08:08

Peak oil politics interfered with the normal development plans in the arctic and Prudhoe bay. There is no lack of oil up there. All you have to do is drill. Problem is politics stopped that development. What is accessable is being developed. The rest is all still there and waiting.

The immense riches of the shales is so fantastic it has forced some people into denial. Others have reacted violently or with anger and resentment. Why? Their political views are upset by more oil. There is nothing in and of the oil that would make anybody turn their head.

I think another emotional proplem some people are having with the shales is the fact that they are an unintended consequence of the politics of peak oil. Had the Alaskan discoveries been allowed to develop in an orderly fashion as planned, hence the Alaskan pipeline, nobody would have ever bothered with the shales yet. We would be swimming in Alaskan oil today.
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Re: Today's giant new oil discoveries -- largest in 150 year

Unread postby Plantagenet » Sat 04 May 2013, 12:22:23

dorlomin wrote:We are hardly discovering these reserves. We are living in a world where the price is so high they come accessible and price is driving technology to reduce cost.


There is nothing new in that. The whole oil biz began when the price of whale oil became so high that "rock oil" or petroleum became accessible and drove technology to reduce the cost of drilling oil wells.

We are "discovering" the reserves present in shale oil now by drilling and testing the rocks, just as we "discovered" the reserves present in various geologic structures in the past by drilling and testing the rocks.
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Re: Today's giant new oil discoveries -- largest in 150 year

Unread postby Plantagenet » Sat 04 May 2013, 12:26:35

Beery1 wrote:The largest oil fields in North America are still the Cantarell in Mexico and the Prudhoe Bay field in Alaska.


Actually no. Do the math.

The Eagle Ford is much larger than Prudhoe Bay and the Spraberry is much larger than Cantarell.
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Re: Today's giant new oil discoveries -- largest in 150 year

Unread postby dorlomin » Sat 04 May 2013, 12:50:24

Econ101 wrote:Price is not a reflection of actual physical scarcity, it is a reflection of a market scarcity. We have all the oil we need in the ground.
:mrgreen:

Scott of the Antarctic had all the food he needed just a couple of miles away.

Location, location, location.
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Re: Today's giant new oil discoveries -- largest in 150 year

Unread postby meemoe_uk » Sat 04 May 2013, 18:55:39

i thought plantagenet was an all out AGWer and peakoil doomer.

If all it needs is mass media reports on our huge untapped oil reserves to swing doomers, maybe a few more here will see the light soon.
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Re: Today's giant new oil discoveries -- largest in 150 year

Unread postby ROCKMAN » Sat 04 May 2013, 19:50:35

I'm sorry guys…did I just wake up in an alternative universe? LOL. Giant “new” oil discoveries? The first Eagle Ford well began producing in September 1947. There were leases that produced 300k bo to more than 800k bo from VERTICAL wells before 1950…over 62 years ago.

And the Bakken was first produced over 62 years ago. From: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bakken_formation

“A landmark paper by Dow and a companion paper by Williams (1974) recognized the Bakken formation as a major source for the oil produced in the Williston Basin. These papers suggested that the Bakken was capable of generating 10 billion barrels of oil. Webster (1982, 1984) as part of a Master’s thesis at the University of North Dakota further sampled and analyzed the Bakken and calculated the hydrocarbon potential to be about 92 Billion barrels of oil. These data were updated by Schmoker and Hester (1983) who estimated that the Bakken might contain a resource of 132 billion barrels of oil in North Dakota and Montana.”

So today’s cornucopians have “discovered” 7+ billion bo and these old pessimistic geologists over 30 years ago were estimating 10 to 132 billion bbls of oil in the Bakken. As I’ve pointed out before I drilled and frac’d my first EFS over 25 years ago. I also could have personally horizontally drilled and frac’d thousands of EFS wells 20 years ago had prices been where they are today. But I did see beacoup Austin Chalk wells drilled horizontally and frac’d in that time period...oil prices were adequate at that time to develop that resource play.

I guess if one makes a statement as though it’s absolutely true many will accept it without doing a 60 second Internet search. I doubt the amount of proven oil in the Bakken and EFS has changed in the last half century. Technology, developed about 20 years ago, has made some of that oil more available. And $90+/bbl has made even more oil from these rather old fields available.
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Re: Today's giant new oil discoveries -- largest in 150 year

Unread postby rockdoc123 » Sat 04 May 2013, 22:07:47

I doubt the amount of proven oil in the Bakken and EFS has changed in the last half century. Technology, developed about 20 years ago, has made some of that oil more available. And $90+/bbl has made even more oil from these rather old fields available.


Proven..by definition means there is a greater than 90% chance that reserves will be economically recovered. The resource potential outlined 10 years ago let 50 years ago had nothing to do with proven oil. The proven oil comes into play as more and more of this play has been drilled. Without wells producing or at least having tested oil you can't hope to classify the reserves as Proven. So yes, the resource numbers may not have changed much (they have due to seismic and additional drilling) but the actual reserve numbers and especially so for proven have changed dramatically.
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Re: Today's giant new oil discoveries -- largest in 150 year

Unread postby ROCKMAN » Sun 05 May 2013, 02:20:42

rockdoc – I agree. I just used the sloppy “proven” to keep the conversation on track. You and I both understand “proven” and it takes more than some geologist throwing a number out. And it would irritate them more for me to tell that that I don’t really care what the actual “proven” number may be because that’s not a very meaningful category to me. At the end of the day the only proven reserve category that comes close to meaning anything to me is “proved developed producing”….PDP. Most don’t understand that that much of those “proven” reserves are what you and I call “proved undeveloped”: “PUD’s. A while ago US pubcos took a hit on their books when the SEC tightened up on the regs regarding PUD’s. They used to be rather loose with how far away from a producing well they would let a company count potential locations as PUD’s. Not working for a pubco I’m not 100% sure but I think the rule is now one step out location in four directions. Which is why companies will often not drill immediate offsets to good wells: skip a few spots and get another 4:1 bump.

Folks should also understand that there are some generally accepted criteria by which hydrocarbon accumulations are categorized. The gold standard that most utilize is that of the SPE: Society of Petroleum Engineer. If folks have an hour of their life to spare here it is. BTW they’ll find that the vast majority of those billions of bbls of “proved reserves” aren’t actually classified as proved. And they’ll see in the link that “proved” isn’t itself even a category per se.

http://www.spe.org/industry/docs/OGR_Mapping.pdf

Of course, folks should remember what happens to the PDP reserve number: it decreases as the wells deplete. Which is a big part of that treadmill the pubcos are on: whatever a company has at the beginning of the year on the books as PDP can significantly decrease for those existing wells by the end of the year. And folks should also understand that PDP reserves are valued much higher than PUD’s…especially by financial institutions. My company only values PUD’s at 40% to 60% of the equivalent PDP. And when buying properties PDP reserves are priced much higher than PUD’s. So to increase PDP they have to drill a number of wells just to replace those PDP reserves that disappear from the asset balance as the wells deplete. And there’s the real trap: the more wells they drill the more PDP they book. But the more PDP they have on the books at the beginning of the year the more wells they have to drill just to replace those depleting PDP reserves by the end of the year. And those replacement wells have to be replaced, etc, etc, etc. IOW the more PDP reserves they put on their books the more wells they have to drill just to maintain their existing value let alone increase it.

But my main point wasn’t about reserves. The subject of the thread is about these great “new” fields that have been recently discovered. Except, of course, these plays were discovered and began development over half a century ago. They aren’t new. What’s new is oil selling several times more than it was a dozen or so years ago. That’s the important dynamic to appreciate IMHO. We didn’t discover anything new. We’re just utilizing technology and higher prices to economically recover what we’ve known was there for many decades. Many geologists today would love to take credit for these new discoveries but most us were either babies at the time or weren't even born yet. But what the heck: if they want to thow a Blue Bell ice cream party in my behalf who am I to argue. LOL.

By the way here's an example of what can happen to those "proved reserves" when they actually start drilling. I just looked at a deal offering almost 20,000 acres in Wilson County,Texas. Company X, late to the Eagle Ford Shale play, bought the acreage from another company for over $90 million. After spending over $40 million to drill EFS wells they are walking away and offering the entire acreage position for $6 million. And the company that came to use looking for financial support was interested in the Austin Chalk and Buda Limestone on that acreage...not the EFS. Company X generated a net loss of over $120 million drilling "proven" EFS reserves. And yes: by SPE standards there were almost no PUD EFS reserves on that acreage.

And no: we passed on the offer. Insufficent rate of return on the AC and BL in our humble opinion. And yes: the company that sold the acreage to Company X (at a nice profit) walked away with a smile on the face and never looked backed. That's what we do to our own sophisticated players. Wanna come play with us? LOL.
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Re: Today's giant new oil discoveries -- largest in 150 year

Unread postby Econ101 » Sun 05 May 2013, 10:10:44

The proof is in the pudding. Production numbers are straight up and price is strong. At one time price did drive production now not so much. There are few if any "dry" holes, acreages are consolidating into larger operating units, drilling and recovery resources are in place and order is begining to prevail. Along with rapidly advancing drilling/recovery technologies, all of this will lead to higher production and lower costs.

Image

The big thing is shipping. Production and price have both been held back by limited shipping. It was at 500,000 barrels out/day for a long time. Now its over a million with more projects underway.

The USGS is stating Bakken crude is very high quality. Nothing unconventional about it except its amazing quality and quantity. Now that infrastructure is in place price should remain high. North Dakotas refinery handles only 60,000 barrels/day.

The recovery rate from this shale is on the rise as is the physical size of the resource both horizontally and vertically. The most conservative people in the world just tripled their estimates. 1974 estimates were at 10 billion barrels. That has probably already been pumped. Now at 800,000 barrels/day and rising fast (look at that graph!!) it will take only another couple of years to get the next 10 billion. They have estimated drilling activities will require 30 yrs or so. That was before the USGS tripled up, but I can assure the industry knows far more than the USGS.

In due time the UND estimates are going to seem small, but production wont rise forever. Shipping is going to be the ultimate limiting factor. Im not sure what maximime estimated shipping capacity is right now but once they hit that you will probably see expasnion of refinery services in North Dakota or other industries using the crude and gas.

This is by any measure one of the great oil resources the world has ever known.
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Re: Today's giant new oil discoveries -- largest in 150 year

Unread postby Buddy_J » Sun 05 May 2013, 10:28:06

Econ101 wrote:The USGS is stating Bakken crude is very high quality. Nothing unconventional about it except its amazing quality and quantity.


Shorty, you haven't read the USGS definitions on what they assess, and the reason they call certain types of geology certain things. I recommend reading their work more, then you won't pretend they consider their numbers conservative (they have never said that and if you read the way they do their calculations you would know why) and you certainly would know that unconventional label can be subjective and has nothing to do with the quality of the oil in this case. Do you need help Shorty?

May I recommend some of the authors who built these concepts? Try "Geologic Nature of Continuous Accumulations"?

http://certmapper.cr.usgs.gov/data/noga ... /CH_13.pdf


Econ101 wrote: That was before the USGS tripled up, but I can assure the industry knows far more than the USGS.


and has something to sell besides oil and gas. Did you miss the USGS presentations they gave in Washington last week? Included on their thank you list was more than a dozen companies. They were profuse in their thanking of the companies involved, is it your assertion that everything the companies told them was for some reason ignored? Why do you think they talk to the companies, if not to hear what they have to say and incorporate it in their assessments? Shorty, you are really falling down on the job here.

Econ101 wrote:I
This is by any measure one of the great oil resources the world has ever known.


No it isn't. It sounds slightly larger than East Texas, but at a higher price point. The greatest resources the world has ever known are the tar sands in Canada, the Orinoco, the hydrates, and maybe Ghawar. That's it. Stop pretending it is more than it is Shorty. Next you'll be pimping CLR.
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Re: Today's giant new oil discoveries -- largest in 150 year

Unread postby Econ101 » Sun 05 May 2013, 10:52:17

Back when the USGS said there was only 1/3 as much as they say there is now others were more knowledgable. The USGS is catching up a bit now but they are very conservative. Its the nature of their role. It is their responsibility to inventory the oil and gas the US has. Not speculate, not estimate but rather inventory. More oil has already been pumped out of the Bakken than the early USGS estimates and production is rising by leaps and bounds.

Argue all you want which is the greatest, the Bakken/Williston Basin is among them, as our conversation highlights.

Listen to the USGS tell us how signigicant the Bakken is and what the quality of these resources are. You must remember the USGS is not in the business of guaranteeing future supplies, their charge by law is to inventory known oil and gas reserves. They do not speculate. They work with industry, they do not know what industry knows but they have access to information that allows them to assess the inventories. Its nice to hear they have good will toward the industry. You dont find that in the more political arms like the epa.

http://gallery.usgs.gov/audio/corecast/ep183/Bakken.mp3

Takes about 3 minutes. Should answer all your questions bro about the Bakken, one of the worlds great oil discoveries! :)

Ps. Heres the 2006 USGS assessment. My guess is all of those estimates should be tripled! This report is interesting it provides a cloud map of all operating oil fields with the size of the circle proportinate to its known reserve. The Bakken is Big! It will also help you with definitions, rock formations, stuff like that.

https://www.dmr.nd.gov/ndgs/bakken/PDF/USGSBakkenAssessmentProject.pdf
Last edited by Econ101 on Sun 05 May 2013, 11:25:30, edited 2 times in total.
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