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THE Earthquake Thread Pt 2 (merged)

THE Earthquake Thread Pt 2 (merged)

Unread postby seahorse3 » Wed 18 Apr 2012, 21:54:40

RD I will try to post some links on what happened in my state later. From memory and from only following the news reports, AR shut down two wells getting rid of the waste fluids bc they felt or decided they were responsible for our many EQ
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Re: Human-made earthquakes reported in central U.S

Unread postby rockdoc123 » Wed 18 Apr 2012, 23:24:47

Seahorse I found this discussion by Steve Rauzi, Oil & Gas Administration for the Arizona Oil & Gas Conservation Commission.
There are no shale-gas wells in Arizona and there has been no horizontal drilling and no hydraulic fracturing associated with those types of wells. In fact no wells have ever been drilled in Arizona for shale-gas. The geology of Arizona does not include the extensive areas of the type of shale formation that shale-gas developers are looking for.
Only ten wells have been hydraulically fractured in Arizona in the last 15 years. Seven were fractured in 1997, one in 2004 and two in 2008. All of the wells were drilled for carbon dioxide gas, not shale gas, in east-central Arizona between St Johns and Springerville.


http://azgeology.azgs.az.gov/article/oil-and-gas/2012/04/hydraulic-fracturing-threat-arizona

As you say this wasn't shale gas drilling but water disposal wells. There are not a lot of good regulations around disposal wells in many states. They are used by all sorts of companies other than oil companies. As mentioned earlier it has been known for a long time that water disposal wells can cause reactivation of fault planes and earthquakes. California regulated them a long time ago.
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Re: Human-made earthquakes reported in central U.S

Unread postby rockdoc123 » Thu 19 Apr 2012, 10:33:21

I thought I would try to explain in laymans fashion the difference between water injection for disposal and injection for fracing.
I think most will understand that the pressure at the base of a column of water is much higher than at the top. The increase in pressure through a column of water is around 0.45 psi/ft but varies around that number based on salinity. In the case of water injection for disposal a company looks for a highly permeable reservoir which has a limitless reservoir or has been previously depleted. If permeability is high enough and the reservoir was previously depleted the amount of pressure that fluid needs to be pumped at is relatively minimal since the formation pressure will not be that much higher than the hydrostatic pressure (pressure from the water column) in the well bore. In the case of a fault being intersected it is very difficult for the person monitoring the pumping pressure to realize that fluids are moving into a fault plane versus the actual reservoir...basically pressure builds up until the formation pressure can be overcome and then pumping pressure will remain constant whether the water is flowing into the reservoir or into a fault. This is why in the case of water injection the regulations should not allow any injection into reservoirs that are anywhere near known faults. It's a bit of a crapshoot as to where your water goes. The operator in this case doesn't really care where his water is going, he just needs to dispose of it, hence regulations need to be harsh.

The situation in fraccing is entirely different. In this case the reservoir has extremely low permeability. Whereas the water injection well may have been injecting into a depleted reservoir with permeabilities in the hundreds of millidarcies up to a Darcie, the shale well is dealing with a reservoir with permeabilities of several nano-darcies (1 billionth of a Darcie). This means that the pumping pressure needs to be raised to a point at which the virgin rock can be fractured which is very high. In this case the person monitoring the pumping operation can tell exactly what is happening in the reservoir. Theoretically he/she should see pressure rise to a point at which the yield stress of the rock is met and once the first crack is opened pressure will drop immediately until the crack propogates about 100 m out and then the wall rock collapses (hence the need for sand or silicon bead propant) and pressure begins to build again until the next crack begins to form and then falls off. If instead they have intersected a fault the pressure would build up until such time as the stress differential is met for failure along a pre-existing fault plane (much lower level than for virgin rock fracture) and it would drop slightly but not as far as in the case of virgin rock. The pumping pressure would then continue along without building or dropping as the water flowed along the fault. The industry also uses micro-seismic monitoring techniques that allow for real time view of the fractures propogating away from the well bore. With this tool it is very obvious when a pre-existing fault has been opened and the operation can be shut-down. Unlike in the case of water disposal opening ups a pre-existing fault is the absolute worst thing that can happen in a shale fraccing operation since you are unable to create new fractures as long as all of your pressure is being drained through the now open pre-exiting fault. So the sort of thing that happened to Quadzilla in the UK happened because of their inexperience and the fact they were no doubt trying to poor boy their operation. This is where regulations come into play...they need to be rigid and prescriptive, they need to be enforced and the fines for non-compliance need to be stiff.
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Re: Human-made earthquakes reported in central U.S

Unread postby seahorse3 » Thu 19 Apr 2012, 10:43:25

Hi RD, I live in Arkansas, not Arizona, but it is confusing bc the AR is the abreviation for Arkansas. Here is an article I found on the Arkansas situation:

http://arkansasnews.com/2011/07/27/panel-bans-injection-wells-in-quake-zone/

Here's another link to a blog article which provides a link to the order:

[urlhttp://blog.thebakkenformation.com/2011/03/06/arkansas-ban-on-fracking/][/url]

News article:

http://www.allgov.com/Controversies/ViewNews/Arkansas_Suspends_Drilling_of_Injection_Wells_after_Earthquake_Swarm_110302

It appears the order stopped two injection wells and regular fracking wells in the EQ prone area, unless I'm reading the articles wrong.
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Re: Human-made earthquakes reported in central U.S

Unread postby rockdoc123 » Thu 19 Apr 2012, 12:13:45

Ah....my mistake not the "grand canyon state" but rather the "deliverance state" :P

does look like it is water disposal as the culprit but it isn't clear who was doing the disposal.
I don't believe it is oil companies involved in the Fayetville shale operations responsible for the injection simply because they are generally using settling ponds and land redistribution as a means of waste water disposal. But can't find any details.

If you are interested this is a very good paper explaining the whole shale operations in the Fayetville including frac fluid chemistry.
http://www.aogc.state.ar.us/ALL%20FayettevilleFrac%20FINAL.pdf
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Re: Human-made earthquakes reported in central U.S

Unread postby seahorse3 » Thu 19 Apr 2012, 17:15:32

Georgia was the "Deliverance State." In Arkansas, anyone floating down a river with a camera is simply never seen again.
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Re: THE Earthquake Thread Pt 2 (merged)

Unread postby Tanada » Tue 14 Jan 2014, 10:33:50

SAN JUAN, Puerto Rico -- A strong earthquake out to sea that shook Puerto Rico early Monday is one of the largest to hit the U.S. territory in recent years, cracking floors and causing some power outages, but no major damages or injuries, officials said.

The 6.4-magnitude quake struck just after midnight about 35 miles (57 kilometers) north of Hatillo, at a depth of 17 miles (28 kilometers), according to the U.S. Geological Survey.

At least 70 aftershocks have been reported since then, with at least three of a magnitude 3.5 or greater, said Gisela Baez Sanchez, a geologist with Puerto Rico's Seismic Network.

"All of Puerto Rico is in a seismic danger zone," she said in a phone interview. "We have to be prepared."

http://www.weather.com/news/puerto-rico ... e-20140113

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Re: THE Earthquake Thread Pt 2 (merged)

Unread postby Timo » Tue 14 Jan 2014, 12:16:36

Being a US Territory, does Puerto Rico qualify for FEMA aide, or would that depend on becoming a US State?
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Re: THE Earthquake Thread Pt 2 (merged)

Unread postby dohboi » Tue 14 Jan 2014, 12:24:52

"The quiet Earth, isn't." Especially in a 'seismic danger zone'!

Do we have any contributors from down in that area that could give us some first-hand info?
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Re: THE Earthquake Thread Pt 2 (merged)

Unread postby Subjectivist » Tue 14 Jan 2014, 12:47:11

Timo wrote:Being a US Territory, does Puerto Rico qualify for FEMA aide, or would that depend on becoming a US State?


Yes Fema covers all USA territories, not just the ones that have become states.

http://www.fema.gov/states/puerto-rico
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Unusual earthquakes in Connecticut

Unread postby Sixstrings » Sat 17 Jan 2015, 17:41:37

Unusual minor fault "earthquake swarms" on the rise in several places in the country.

Michio Kaku says that part of the reason is the last ice age, 10,000 years ago the plate was under ice and with the ice gone the plate is rising.

Also, fracking may be a cause.

Kaku says it should be okay, although in 1812 there was such a large quake on the San Andreas that it reversed the flow of the Mississippi river.

Behind the unusual surge of earthquakes in Connecticut

Officials in Connecticut are moving to calm residents rattled by a recent surge in seismic activity, with the eastern part of the state being hit by a dozen earthquakes in a week. CBS News
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=im42EmZEGDY


So what do you guys think? Just natural cycles? Climate change caused, somehow? Fracking?

Connecticut officials coordinate earthquake preparation

HARTFORD, Conn. (AP) - After daily earthquakes in eastern Connecticut over the past week, officials have met to discuss ways the state can respond and residents can prepare.

Officials from several state agencies said at a meeting Friday they want to make sure Connecticut is ready.

About a dozen earthquakes have been recorded in the Plainfield area in little more than a week. No significant damage was reported.

The Weston Observatory of Boston College says that while the greatest earthquake activity in the United States is in the west, earthquakes are "quite common" in many areas of the east.

Officials say residents in areas that are prone to earthquakes should identify a safe place for shelter, secure heavy or tall furniture to walls and know how to turn off gas and water supply valves.
http://www.myfoxny.com/story/27870318/earthquake-preparation
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Re: Unusual earthquakes in Connecticut

Unread postby Synapsid » Sat 17 Jan 2015, 17:52:35

Tanada,

New Madrid, not San Andreas. The course of Ol' Miss was changed but the flow wasn't reversed.

New Madrid is a catastrophe waiting to happen.
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Re: Unusual earthquakes in Connecticut

Unread postby Synapsid » Sat 17 Jan 2015, 17:53:36

Oops--Six, not Tanada. Apologies.
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Re: Unusual earthquakes in Connecticut

Unread postby Sixstrings » Sat 17 Jan 2015, 19:06:12

Synapsid wrote:Oops--Six, not Tanada. Apologies.


:lol:

I just watched the michio kaku video, he said "san andreas" I thought.

Anyhow what do you think about earthquake swarms in connecticut -- is it somehow cc related, is it the fracking, or is it just time for once in a century type seismic activity there?
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Re: Unusual earthquakes in Connecticut

Unread postby wake » Sat 17 Jan 2015, 20:57:12

San Andreas is California, at the edge of the continental plate, and has nothing to do with the Mississippi

The new Madrid earthquake is something totally different, right in the middle of the continent, essentially a place where a new continental rift is trying to form, such as the ones that broke up Pangea or exist in east Africa now

Fracking I think is unused in CT and therefore also irrelevant

Since an earthquake is just movement, I assume fracking or competing a well itself could register and I believe some small and shallow quakes have resulted, I assume from disturbing fluids pressure

I have never heard of any important one though, and assume geologists think it so silly to worry about that they do not correct media hype on fracking and earthquakes

The ct ones are interesting and I would like to see it covered from a science angle
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Re: Unusual earthquakes in Connecticut

Unread postby coffeeguyzz » Sat 17 Jan 2015, 23:53:25

Sixstrings, You may be on to something with speculating that fracking is the culprit behind the Connecticut earthquakes.
My sources have confided to me that outfits such as Range Resources and even Shell Oil, incredibly enough, have undertaken extensive fracturing procedures just over the border in nearby Pennsylvania.
Perhaps some community action should be implemented/organized before this dangerous practice becomes more widespread.
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Re: Unusual earthquakes in Connecticut

Unread postby Sixstrings » Sun 18 Jan 2015, 00:11:31

coffeeguyzz wrote:Sixstrings, You may be on to something with speculating that fracking is the culprit behind the Connecticut earthquakes.
My sources have confided to me that outfits such as Range Resources and even Shell Oil, incredibly enough, have undertaken extensive fracturing procedures just over the border in nearby Pennsylvania.
Perhaps some community action should be implemented/organized before this dangerous practice becomes more widespread.


Good info there, Coffee. I'm no expert but ya, my hunch was on blaming fracking. Weren't there a bunch of quakes in Ohio or somewhere a year ago, and that was fracking, and wasn't this happening in Texas and that was about fracking too.

We still want to be #1 in energy -- as long as there are no massive sinkholes or real earthquakes over it; I don't know, if fracking is the cause of this, can people just "accept" and live with seismic tremors? That's gotta be worse than pollution. The ground shaking under you, when you do not live in California.
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Re: Unusual earthquakes in Connecticut

Unread postby Synapsid » Sun 18 Jan 2015, 01:32:10

Six,

I'm not sure but I suspect that coffeeg is pulling your leg.

The quakes have been occurring over at the east side of the state, next to Rhode Island. The geology of Connecticut is messy, made up of band after band of volcanic islands arcs and continental crust added on to the side of what is now North America, over some hundred million years, during the assembly of Pangaea culminating around 300 million years ago. About a hundred million years after that what is now the center of the state began to split as part of the opening of the Atlantic, but the actual rifting occurred farther east and Connecticut stayed in one piece. Rebound of the crust following the melting away of the Laurentide ice sheet is a factor in the present-day tectonics, and there are all the faults any enthusiast could ask for running roughly N-S through the state, so quakes aren't unheard of there, or in the rest of New England for all the same reasons.
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Re: Unusual earthquakes in Connecticut

Unread postby Synapsid » Sun 18 Jan 2015, 01:33:59

Six,

Make that "island arcs".
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