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Food : Let them eat carbon : Diet

Discussions of conventional and alternative energy production technologies.

Food : Let them eat carbon : Diet

Unread postby Graeme » Wed 28 May 2014, 19:35:20

Let them eat carbon

In the 1980s, encountering regulatory restrictions and public resistance to smoking in the United States, the giant tobacco companies came up with a particularly effective strategy for sustaining their profit levels: sell more cigarettes in the developing world, where demand was strong and anti-tobacco regulation weak or nonexistent. Now, the giant energy companies are taking a page from Big Tobacco’s playbook. As concern over climate change begins to lower the demand for fossil fuels in the United States and Europe, they are accelerating their sales to developing nations, where demand is strong and climate-control measures weak or nonexistent. That this will produce a colossal increase in climate-altering carbon emissions troubles them no more than the global spurt in smoking-related illnesses troubled the tobacco companies.

The tobacco industry’s shift from rich, developed nations to low- and middle-income countries has been well documented. “With tobacco use declining in wealthier countries, tobacco companies are spending tens of billions of dollars a year on advertising, marketing, and sponsorship, much of it to increase sales in... developing countries,” the New York Times noted in a 2008 editorial. To boost their sales, outfits like Philip Morris International and British American Tobacco also brought their legal and financial clout to bear to block the implementation of anti-smoking regulations in such places. “They’re using litigation to threaten low- and middle-income countries,” Dr. Douglas Bettcher, head of the Tobacco Free Initiative of the World Health Organization (WHO), told the Times.

The fossil fuel companies -- producers of oil, coal, and natural gas -- are similarly expanding their operations in low- and middle-income countries where ensuring the growth of energy supplies is considered more critical than preventing climate catastrophe. “There is a clear long-run shift in energy growth from the OECD [Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development, the club of rich nations] to the non-OECD,” oil giant BP noted in its Energy Outlook report for 2014. “Virtually all (95%) of the projected growth [in energy consumption] is in the non-OECD,” it added, using the polite new term for what used to be called the Third World.


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Re: Let them eat carbon

Unread postby Quinny » Thu 29 May 2014, 09:09:46

When I was a kid one of my Uncle's used to give me science books and even bought me a subscription to a weekly journal. I remember one of the first articles being about research into producing protein from oil. It would allow us to eliminate poverty and feed the world so cheaply :roll:
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Re: Let them eat carbon

Unread postby Subjectivist » Thu 29 May 2014, 10:20:23

Quinny wrote:When I was a kid one of my Uncle's used to give me science books and even bought me a subscription to a weekly journal. I remember one of the first articles being about research into producing protein from oil. It would allow us to eliminate poverty and feed the world so cheaply :roll:


I remember reading a story back in the 1970's about a company that discovered an oil eating yeast, they fed oil to the yeast, then dried the yeast into 'food cakes' for poor people. Of course back then oil was $3.00/bbl and converting those calories into food would have been an incredibly cheap way to feed people.
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Re: Let them eat carbon

Unread postby KaiserJeep » Thu 29 May 2014, 12:24:20

Even with oil at the present price, in the USA we expend 15-20 calories of oil energy to put one calorie of food on the dining table:

1.6 calories in mechanized agriculture (excludes fertilizer, pesticides, and herbicides)
2.7 calories in processing and packaging the food
4.3 calories in wholesale/retail freight transport
3.4 calories in personal shopping transport and food preparation
5.1 calories in refuse transport and disposal (in all four stages above)
-----
17.1 total energy calories for 1 calorie of food.

Another way of expressing this is that the average American has 1.2 US gallons of gas embedded in his daily diet.

Thus we see that our food supplies, being sustained by non-renewable energy, will also go through entirely predictable periods of growth, peak, and decline.

Meanwhile, if you commonly estimate your food cost in dollars per bag, now you know the source of the price increase.
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Re: Let them eat carbon

Unread postby Tanada » Tue 01 Nov 2016, 08:59:54

KaiserJeep wrote:Even with oil at the present price, in the USA we expend 15-20 calories of oil energy to put one calorie of food on the dining table:

1.6 calories in mechanized agriculture (excludes fertilizer, pesticides, and herbicides)
2.7 calories in processing and packaging the food
4.3 calories in wholesale/retail freight transport
3.4 calories in personal shopping transport and food preparation
5.1 calories in refuse transport and disposal (in all four stages above)
-----
17.1 total energy calories for 1 calorie of food.

Another way of expressing this is that the average American has 1.2 US gallons of gas embedded in his daily diet.

Thus we see that our food supplies, being sustained by non-renewable energy, will also go through entirely predictable periods of growth, peak, and decline.

Meanwhile, if you commonly estimate your food cost in dollars per bag, now you know the source of the price increase.


A lot of people over the last couple decades have pointed to numbers like this with the implication that low energy supplies will equal starvation. My objection to that is pretty simple, just because we currently fly Grapes from Chile and Olives from Greece and fresh King Crab from Alaska does not make any of those foods dietary staples. Most of your food calories come from wheat, corn, potato for resident of North America you can add in a lot of vegetable oil used in cooking. Right now these four basic food ingredients are shipped long distances because bulk shipping is still cheap, but they do not need to be. The Almond groves of California are nice, I personally love tree nuts, but the staples of the diet are not nuts, or lobster or table fruit. A pound of wheat flour bread divided into three meals with a pound of french fried potato or chips and oil based spread gives you easily 2500 calories. That is why these foods are staples and have been for all of recorded history in their lands of origin. People think their calories come from Meat in America but in reality red meat on a pound for pound basis is only 2/3rds as many calories as Wheat bread.In contrast a pound of Apples one seventh about 15 percent of the calories in a pound of bread.
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Re: Let them eat carbon

Unread postby GHung » Tue 01 Nov 2016, 09:44:05

Agreed. Things like potatoes and lentils can easily be produced locally, and are generally much better than factory-farmed produce. Add lower-emissions types of protein and you're good to go.

Image

Even if produced industrially, chicken has about 1/4 of the emissions footprint as beef does, is much cheaper in my market, and chickens produce almost no methane.

We rebuilt/replaced our flock of hens this summer and should be getting fresh eggs soon. Nothing is easier than raising a few hens that will produce a couple of dozen eggs per week. I bought 15 pullets, partially grown, from a neighbor (RI Reds), and a very nice smallish hen house built as a chicken tractor for $225, and will stock it with 5 laying hens this spring. I plan to sell this 'turn-key egg production unit' for what I have in the whole deal and keep ten layers for our hen house and big chicken yard. Eggs for sale, barter, and consumption.

Anyway, I had some stickers made for our vehicles:

Image
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Re: Let them eat carbon

Unread postby careinke » Wed 02 Nov 2016, 02:22:07

Tanada wrote: Most of your food calories come from wheat, corn, potato for resident of North America you can add in a lot of vegetable oil used in cooking.


This "you have to eat grains to survive" is bullocks. In the last ten months I have NOT eaten Rice, Wheat, Barley, Oats or any other grain, nor potatoes. My fats are either animal, olive oil, avocado oil, or coconut oil.

I've dropped thirty pounds, but I'm still alive and feeling great.
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Re: Let them eat carbon

Unread postby careinke » Wed 02 Nov 2016, 02:49:48

GHung wrote:
Even if produced industrially, chicken has about 1/4 of the emissions footprint as beef does, is much cheaper in my market, and chickens produce almost no methane.

We rebuilt/replaced our flock of hens this summer and should be getting fresh eggs soon. Nothing is easier than raising a few hens that will produce a couple of dozen eggs per week. I bought 15 pullets, partially grown, from a neighbor (RI Reds), and a very nice smallish hen house built as a chicken tractor for $225, and will stock it with 5 laying hens this spring. I plan to sell this 'turn-key egg production unit' for what I have in the whole deal and keep ten layers for our hen house and big chicken yard. Eggs for sale, barter, and consumption.



Due to a couple of dog pack attacks, I am restocking my layers. I bought the chicks in September and am raising them in my green house for the winter, then introduce them to the henhouse in early spring. It works well and they should start laying around March.

Putting them in the greenhouse during the cooler months adds overall heat to the greenhouse both from the heat lamp and the chicks. The chicks also add CO2 to the greenhouse. In addition, they are easier to tend to in the greenhouse. Finally, the garden workload is less in winter so I have more free time. I think I will now forgo spring chicks, and just get my replacement layers in late autumn.
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Re: Let them eat carbon

Unread postby ROCKMAN » Wed 02 Nov 2016, 09:08:21

care - "My fats are either animal, olive oil, avocado oil, or coconut oil.". Curious: eat much beans? I've always considered them a good protein source. And having grown up in S La I can enjoy a well seasoned pot of beans as much as a steak. Even though Iate beans for supper 5 days a week growing up. LOL.
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Re: Let them eat carbon

Unread postby GHung » Wed 02 Nov 2016, 10:19:41

ROCKMAN wrote:care - "My fats are either animal, olive oil, avocado oil, or coconut oil.". Curious: eat much beans? I've always considered them a good protein source. And having grown up in S La I can enjoy a well seasoned pot of beans as much as a steak. Even though Iate beans for supper 5 days a week growing up. LOL.


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Re: Let them eat carbon

Unread postby Tanada » Wed 02 Nov 2016, 21:04:26

careinke wrote:
Tanada wrote: Most of your food calories come from wheat, corn, potato for resident of North America you can add in a lot of vegetable oil used in cooking.


This "you have to eat grains to survive" is bullocks. In the last ten months I have NOT eaten Rice, Wheat, Barley, Oats or any other grain, nor potatoes. My fats are either animal, olive oil, avocado oil, or coconut oil.

I've dropped thirty pounds, but I'm still alive and feeling great.


Back the outrage truck up! I never said you have to eat starch to live, I pointed out that the vast majority of calories in the North American diet come from carbs. It is not healthy, but it is true.
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Re: Let them eat carbon

Unread postby careinke » Sat 05 Nov 2016, 19:06:28

Tanada wrote:
careinke wrote:
Tanada wrote: Most of your food calories come from wheat, corn, potato for resident of North America you can add in a lot of vegetable oil used in cooking.


This "you have to eat grains to survive" is bullocks. In the last ten months I have NOT eaten Rice, Wheat, Barley, Oats or any other grain, nor potatoes. My fats are either animal, olive oil, avocado oil, or coconut oil.

I've dropped thirty pounds, but I'm still alive and feeling great.


Back the outrage truck up! I never said you have to eat starch to live, I pointed out that the vast majority of calories in the North American diet come from carbs. It is not healthy, but it is true.


Sorry I was being grumpy. I had to have a double hernia operation on Thursday and was feeling pissed off. Yes you are right, it's not healthy but it is true. Still, with some education, that could change.
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Re: Let them eat carbon

Unread postby careinke » Sat 05 Nov 2016, 19:25:03

ROCKMAN wrote:care - "My fats are either animal, olive oil, avocado oil, or coconut oil.". Curious: eat much beans? I've always considered them a good protein source. And having grown up in S La I can enjoy a well seasoned pot of beans as much as a steak. Even though Iate beans for supper 5 days a week growing up. LOL.


The only two legumes I've added to my diet so far, are peanuts and green beans. I haven't really missed the dried beans, but now that you mention it, a bowl of pork and beans might be nice on a cold winter morning. I'll have to research it some more.
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Re: Let them eat carbon

Unread postby Peak_Yeast » Sat 05 Nov 2016, 19:41:21

I have multiple allergies:
1. Wheat, barley, oat, qinoa and othes
2. Milk
3. Egg
4. Soya
5. Peanut
6. Kiwi
7. HFS from wheat
8. Taste enhancer mono-glutamat
9. Whatever McD secret and undeclared compounds has in their fries. Advertised to be potato, oil, salt which is definitely not true. Liars !
10. Rice
11. Mustardseed and products
and others...

My diet now is primarily meat and selected veggies.

Funny how no meats are on this list...
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Re: Let them eat carbon

Unread postby Tanada » Sat 05 Nov 2016, 19:56:13

Peak_Yeast wrote:I have multiple allergies:
1. Wheat, barley, oat, qinoa and othes
2. Milk
3. Egg
4. Soya
5. Peanut
6. Kiwi
7. HFS from wheat
8. Taste enhancer mono-glutamat
9. Whatever McD secret and undeclared compounds has in their fries. Advertised to be potato, oil, salt which is definitely not true. Liars !
10. Rice
11. Mustardseed and products
and others...

My diet now is primarily meat and selected veggies.

Funny how no meats are on this list...



I believe Micky D's fryer oil is soybean oil, which is a problem if you are allergic to soy.
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Moved earth and heaven, that which we are, we are;
One equal temper of heroic hearts,
Made weak by time and fate, but strong in will
To strive, to seek, to find, and not to yield.
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