[dohboi]

But I am not and, I believe, have never claimed to be a complete vegan.

My point all along has been that the whole world doesn't all have to become vegan (though I certainly support anyone who wants to take this step).

What we need is to return to the long term historic norms of diet for the last few thousand people for most people most of the time--meat as mostly just a flavoring or a relatively rare treat.

And again, it's about various kinds of modifications of behavior. Not an "us versus them" thing, though in our culture pretty much everything seems to boil down to such absurdly reductionist 3rd grade schemas.

[Shaved Monkey]

To my friends who choose to continue to choose to eat large quantities of meat, I would urge them, for their own health purposes, to at least avoid processed meats, which have been shown to be carcinogenic, with high levels of confidence, equal to the level of confidence we have that cigarettes cause cancer.

With cancer rates of bacon eaters your figures would be skewed by other bad dietary habits of bacon eaters.
I wonder what particular part of processed meat causes cancer?
If it nitrates and nitrites surely they need to look at massively nitrogen fertilised broccoli and spinach.
I would suggest that part of the problem is gut bacteria and the effect preservatives have in killing them.
I was watching a science show on gut bacteria that suggested all our problems stem from a lack of variety in our gut.
Fast food meals can kill half your bacteria and it takes weeks to build them back up.
Your guts are just like the soil in your garden both need lots of healthy bacteria to function properly.
Fibre is one of the major ways of growing bacteria.
The modern western diet is devoid of fibre.

[SeaGypsy]

I was super strict vegan for nearly 20 years. I have eaten cow twice in the decade since, a few morsels of other land critters whilst working with remote aboriginals. I don't eat any dairy & have had maybe 500 grams of it in 30 years now. I am still 98% vegan by weight of diet, but I eat raw fish every couple of days & occasionally some chicken my wife cooks. She & our kids are a cross typical Filipino & Aussie diet, way too much meat, starch & fat.

Edit- I'm an off & on smoker, mainly herbal, & moderate regularly dry drinker. I'm 50 next year & still very fit, apart from 'smile lines' I look 30 something. May help I married with a 18 years younger wife- as they say, you are as young as the woman you feel

[KaiserJeep]

Last time I ate a Vegan, my low density Cholesterol spiked upwards.

[vtsnowedin]

I wonder what particular part of processed meat causes cancer?
If it nitrates and nitrites surely they need to look at massively nitrogen fertilised broccoli and spinach.

Just my first hypothesis would be the salts used to cure hams and bacon and probably the impurities in those salts which have not been carefully refined. Stomach cancer rates have fallen dramatically with the advent of frozen food but that maybe obscuring improvements in the processing of salt cured meats.The fact that meats are now injected with a precisely formulated brine and then kept frozen or canned after processing has greatly reduced the amount of salt and bacteria from rancid meat being consumed.
I don't think nitrogen fertilizer is stored in vegetables as they need it for growth and use it up as they take it in. It is food to them just like C02 is what they breath in.

[Shaved Monkey]

I tend to buy brown processed meat the pink stuff has more nitrates and less salt.
Prosciutto and salami and fresh sausage shouldn't need to have nitrates in them and the first two can be eaten raw.
Foods naturally high in nitrates
https://www.anabolicmen.com/5-nitrate-rich-foods/
The problem is nitrosamines caused by high heat
https://authoritynutrition.com/are-nitr ... s-harmful/

[Newfie]

We don't buy a lot of meat. Eat some venison, but that is getting harder as the boat has a very small freezer. What we eat are mostly chops or hams.

[vtsnowedin]

We don't buy a lot of meat. Eat some venison, but that is getting harder as the boat has a very small freezer. What we eat are mostly chops or hams.

I eat beef steak and eggs for breakfast a lot. It is low carb. (If I skip the home fries and toast), has no chemical additives and gives me good blood sugar numbers. When the hunting goes well I sub in venison.
Evening meals rotate through fresh meats and fish with ham an occasional item but not an every week thing.
I see a lot of people eat bacon every morning and have it or ham in a sub for lunch more often then not Or eat a bacon double cheeseburger from McDs regularly. When they die you could just hang them up and smoke them as they are already pink from all the salt.

[Newfie]

This topic only becomes a "vegan vs omnivouir" issue when one side tries to imply some moral obligation up on the other. Otherwise it seems a quite civil discourse.