[JuanP]

One of the most interesting theories I've heard about who shot down MH17, is that it was Ihor Kolomoyskyi, http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ihor_Kolomoyskyi
He is the governor of Dnepropetrovsk Oblast and the person who financed some of the extremist elements that mingled with the Maidan crowds and took control in January 2014.
He is also a Jewish Ukrainian with double Israeli and Ukrainian nationalities, an oligarch, a billionaire, and the second or third richest person in Ukraine.
He created and finances several of the new punitive Ukrainian National Guard battalions, including the Dnepropetrovsk I and II battalions that are responsible for some of the worst atrocities committed by the Ukrainian forces during the civil war.
He is also the person behind the Odessa Massacre.
According to this theory this man organized, financed, and executed this using his own forces, and neither Kiev, nor the USA, Russia, or Novorossiya were involved. I find this theory believable.

[JuanP]

Red Pill, It isn't nice when people overreact to your comments, is it?
I dish as I get. If you respect me, I will respect you. If you automatically assume bad things about me, I will pretend to assume bad things about you. I have fun doing stuff like this.

[Plantagenet]

There is no Ukrainian people, there are Russians, Tatars, Romanians, Polish, Hungarians, Roma, and Austrians, but no such thing as a Ukrainian race or ethnicity.

????? What exactly do you base that opinion on?

Claiming that Ukrainians aren't actually Ukrainian is bizarre.

"Ukrainians (Ukrainian: українці, ukrayintsi, [ukrɑˈjinʲtsʲi]) are an East Slavic ethnic group native to Ukraine, which is the sixth-largest nation in Europe.[22]"
--Wikipedia

[JuanP]

Plant, I concede the point, you are right and I am wrong.
The Ukrainians are one of the many ethnicities in Ukraine. And they are the majority in the West and the country as a whole, too. I don't know how you can tell a Ukrainian from a Russian other than from their haircuts, though.
I do get carried away sometimes. You are correct. Thanks to you I also just learned that there have been humans living in Ukraine for around 45,000 years, and that it is likely that this is the place were we first domesticated horses. Thanks for sharing.

[JuanP]

Russia Today reports that the preliminary MH17 investigation report will be published next week.
http://rt.com/news/184592-mh17-prelimin ... ort-crash/

[AndyA]

One of the most interesting theories I've heard about who shot down MH17, is that it was Ihor Kolomoyskyi,

http://en.voicesevas.ru/news/analytics/ ... junta.html

The first time I read it, I just thought it was a little too incriminating to be true.

19.07.2014 09:15
Anatoliy Gritsenko
Slava! What the hell?! What have you bitches done? How could you upload that video the day before the operation???!!! Do you understand that the «Russists» have already given it for the expert review and requested Youtube for the date of its very first upload???

That being said, the youtube clip has been proven to be edited beyond reasonable legitimacy. Though it is very suspicious how they managed to put it out so fast. Especially for Ukraine. As I said earlier the war In Ukraine is primarily an information war, and Kiev has the most to gain and least to lose by raising the tension levels.

Today the msm is on about a peace plan between Putin and Peroshanku. Despite the fact that Putin has repeatedly said that it is an internal matter for Ukraine. His input is a list of 7 conditions for a ceasefire, all reasonable suggestions, but they are only suggestions and have no mention of Donbass new status. Just simple things like international observers, humanitarian corridors, amnesty for the soldiers etc. Which is opposed to Petroshanko demands that the rebels lay down their weapons, come out and surrender (and suffer his wrath). If you read the msm you would think it's Putin negotiating for the rebels, which is absurd.

[radon1]

Today the msm is on about a peace plan between Putin and Peroshanku.

That's Poro playing primitive politics on par with petty office backstabbing among junior staff. Everyone got fed up with his cry wolf "Russia invaded", so now he is trying to be clever saying "Ceasefire with Russia". He does not give a heck about peace, he is trying to implicate that Russia is a side to the conflict.

[JuanP]

I think that these peace talks are just Poroshenko buying time because the combat ready Ukrainian army and national guard units have been almost halved in the past few weeks and are still being chopped down by the Novorossiya armed forces as we speak. The Ukrainian gov must be absolutely desperate right now. They have realized they can't win the civil war and fall is almost here. All Russia has to do is wait for winter and the Ukrainian junta and people will be fighting with each other to survive. Their own people will kill the junta when they are freezing to death in three months time.

[JuanP]

An article about the downing of Malaysia Airlines flight MH17:
http://www.counterpunch.org/2014/09/04/ ... th-russia/
An 11 minute YouTube video on the downing of MH17: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EpDKuN3cV_o
A World Socialist Web Site article: http://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2014/08 ... h-a18.html

[AndyA]

Radon, I agree, implicate Russia has been plan A,B and C for Poroshenko and by extension the west.
I am highly doubtful there will be a ceasfire this month, or that there have even been any serious discussion about it. Winter is coming.

[JuanP]

There seems to be a temporary ceasefire in change. I think that the Ukrainian military's August defeats and losses amount to a strategic victory on the part of Novorossiya. I don't see anything getting solved there any time soon. Fall is two weeks away. It is starting to get colder in Ukraine.

[dissident]

The ceasefire is already being violated. There is fighting at the Donetsk airport.

It was stupid for the Donbas rebels to sign any ceasefire that did not include regime forces pulling back outside of shelling range of all population points. Putin is trying to hard to accommodate the psychotic meddlers in NATO and should stay out of any negotiations. By offering 7 point plans and whatnot he is playing into Poroshenko's hands and validating the western propaganda narrative.

[zoidberg]

False flag op by someone in Ukraine to implicate Russia. Disappeared the flight controller mysterious routing the plane lower and over the war zone. Subsequent shelling by the Ukrainian army of the crash site the giveaway was the early attempt to use a deleted Twitter post implicating the rebels. The NSA controls all social media in the west.

I'm no Russia fan, but I cant see it any other way.

[radon1]

By offering 7 point plans and whatnot he is playing into Poroshenko's hands and validating the western propaganda narrative.

The 7 point plan was bereft of any substance, a pretty meaningless word cocktail. Looks like these "7 points" and "12 points" plans were designed, more than anything else, to blunt NATO's response while NATO's top muchos were partying together in Wales. Probably to the quiet satisfaction of the supreme top muchos. When are they going to have the next party? Not too soon perhaps, and until then NATO should be more or less free from major commitments.

But the "people's power" groups in Novorussia were totally outraged.

[JuanP]

A new RT article on the results of the preliminary investigation.
http://rt.com/news/186256-malaysia-airl ... be-report/

[Red Pill]

However, just three hours before the plane was shot down above rebel-held territory in eastern Ukraine, the Associated Press reported on the passage of a Buk M-1 missile system — a machine the size of a tank bearing four ground-to-air missiles — driving through the rebel-held town of Snizhne near the crash site.

A highly placed rebel officer told the AP in an interview after the disaster that the plane was shot down by a mixed team of rebels and Russian military personnel who believed they were targeting a Ukrainian military plane. Intercepted phone conversations between the rebels released by the Ukrainian government support that version of events.

In those tapes, the first rebels to reach the scene can be heard swearing when they see the number of bodies and the insignia of Malaysia Airlines.

[radon1]

However,

Why isn't the formally appointed investigation team reporting it?

[dissident]

http://en.ria.ru/world/20140913/1929105 ... ssias.html

Lavrov also added that the Malaysian Defense Minister Hishammuddin Hussein had visited Russia this week to study Russian experts’ analyses based on the preliminary findings which were made by the Russian Defense Ministry at a briefing in July.

Lavrov also reminded of the "hysterical accusations against independence supporters [in eastern Ukraine] and Russia" that had immediately followed the tragedy. "Now that the ‘propaganda cream’ has been skimmed off, it is possible that one does not really want to investigate the true cause of the accident. [But] that's not our approach," Lavrov said.

Nice to see Malaysia not joining the western coverup of this atrocity. It is becoming clearer and clearer that the Kiev regime is responsible for:

1) Directing MH17 into the war zone (there is zero excuse, including weather over the Sea of Azov, for doing this).

2) Shooting it down.

If the rebels were responsible we would have every shred of evidence jammed in everyone's face as fast as possible. Instead we have foot dragging and the signing of a non-disclosure agreement with member veto. WTF? Malaysia did not agree to this NDA.

[Keith_McClary]

Families of German MH17 victims to sue Ukraine

"Each state is responsible for the security of its air space," Giemulla said in a statement emailed to Reuters. "If it is not able to do so temporarily, it must close its air space. As that did not happen, Ukraine is liable for the damage."

Bild am Sonntag Sunday mass newspaper quoted Giemulla as saying that by not closing its airspace, Ukraine had accepted that the lives of hundreds of innocent people would be "annihilated" and this was a violation of human rights.
...
Giemulla planned to hand his case to the European Court of Human Rights in about two weeks, accusing Ukraine and its President Petro Poroshenko of manslaughter by negligence in 298 cases. He would also push for compensation of up to one million euros ($1.3 million) per victim, Bild am Sonntag reported.

[Keith_McClary]

Spiegel: Review finds rebels shot down MH17 in Ukraine

According to Spiegel, the BND has intelligence suggesting that pro-Russian separatists captured a BUK air-defense missile system at a Ukrainian military base, and fired a missile on July 17 that exploded in the vicinity of the Malaysian aircraft.