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LED Light Bulbs (Merged)

How to save energy through both societal and individual actions.

Re: Why the heck are LED bulbs still so expensive & weak?

Unread postby Keith_McClary » Thu 28 Apr 2011, 00:07:50

PrestonSturges wrote:Hey who remembers when Tensor lamps were "cool" with the little incandescent bulbs?

Jay Monroe, 80, Engineer Who Invented Tensor Lamp, Dies
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Re: Why the heck are LED bulbs still so expensive & weak?

Unread postby Narz » Sun 01 May 2011, 23:43:12

PrestonSturges wrote:I bought a $20 LED desk lamp at Costco. It's a lot like a halogen lamp, but I like it quite a bit.

Recently?

I bought a couple a few months back but they don't seem to be in stock anymore.
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Re: Why the heck are LED bulbs still so expensive & weak?

Unread postby kublikhan » Mon 16 May 2011, 18:19:47

Two leading makers of lighting products are showcasing LED bulbs that are bright enough to replace energy-guzzling 100-watt light bulbs set to disappear from stores in January. The new bulbs will also be expensive -- about $50 each -- so the development may not prevent consumers from hoarding traditional bulbs.

Osram Sylvania, a unit of Germany's Siemens AG, said it has overcome the heat problem and will be showing a pear-shaped 100-watt-equivalent LED bulb this week. It doesn't have a firm launch date, but it usually shows products about a year before they hit store shelves. Lighting Sciences Group Corp., a Satellite Beach, Fla.-based company that specializes in LED lighting, will be showing several 100-watt-equivalent prototypes, including some that solve the problem of cooling the LEDs by using microscopic devices that move air over the chips, like miniature fans. Before the 100-watters, there will be 75-watters on the shelves this year. Osram Sylvania will be selling them at Lowe's starting in July. Royal Philips Electronics NV, the world's biggest lighting maker, will have them in stores late this year for $40 to $45.

However, LED prices are coming down quickly. The DoE expects a 60-watt equivalent LED bulb to cost $10 by 2015, putting them within striking range of the price of a compact fluorescent bulb. But, he said, "it's not necessarily clear to people in the lighting industry that LED chips were ever meant to go into a bulb." What's really needed, he said, is a new approach to lighting -- new fixtures and lamps that spread out the LEDs, avoiding the heat problem.
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Re: Why the heck are LED bulbs still so expensive & weak?

Unread postby Narz » Wed 08 Jun 2011, 13:48:30

Prices are really coming down. Saw an 18-watt (75-watt replacement) at Costco for $30 (after $10 rebate) so I bought it up. It really does compare.

A few years ago you could pay $30 for a 15-watt replacement.
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Re: Why the heck are LED bulbs still so expensive & weak?

Unread postby RankineCycle » Wed 10 Aug 2011, 20:23:57

The problem with LED is heat dissipation. Heat can't be extracted from the higher-wattage chips fast enough to keep them at a reasonable temperature, at least not without fans or absolutely enormous heat sinks made from copper. You'll notice that the bulk of an LED bulb consists of heat sink, as they don't get rid of much heat through radiation (like incandescent or metal halide) and don't have a large surface area (like fluorescent) to dissipate via convection.

I'm not sure why LED is being promoted as a method of general area lighting. Fluorescent and metal halide has had better efficiency, better light, and in many cases longer life than today's LED for years if not decades. Thermal management on these lights is also much simpler. And as long as people are educated and informed of the real (and not imaginary) hazards and disposal procedures, mercury content is not an issue.

When trying to light large areas rather uniformly, such as houses, offices, streets, and industrial buildings, things like fluorescent and metal halide work the best. When the need for accent or task lighting arises, or the need for a rugged or compact light source arises, LED has advantages. I have bought LED bulbs (4 watt PAR 20, 4100K, 145 lumens - $10 at Wal-mart) that I use as task lights in my work shop. My main general light, however, is 4-foot T12 fluorescent, 2 x 5000K 34-watt tubes with electronic ballast. I don't see any LED(s) matching that any time soon.
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Re: Why the heck are LED bulbs still so expensive & weak?

Unread postby rangerone314 » Wed 21 Sep 2011, 22:06:30

My experience with LED bulbs I bought in 2008... I got about 12, 4 still work, and they weren't used in dimmer switches or anything.
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US introduces $60 LED light bulb, bans bulbs 40 watts & over

Unread postby Sixstrings » Sun 22 Apr 2012, 20:42:12

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US introduces $60 LED light bulb

Made by Dutch electronics giant Philips, the bulb swaps filaments for light-emitting diodes to provide illumination.

Using LEDs endows the light with a long life and a hefty price tag. The first versions are set to cost $60 (£37).

Philips has arranged discounts with shops that will sell the bulb meaning some could buy it for only $20 (£12).

Production ban
The bulb triumphed in the Bright Tomorrow competition run by the US Department of Energy that aimed to find an energy efficient alternative to the 60-watt incandescent light bulb.

The DoE challenged firms to develop a design that gave out a warm light similar to that from an incandescent bulbs but was much more energy efficient.

Philips was the only entrant for the competition and its design underwent 18 months of testing before being declared a winner.

A cheaper and less efficient version of the LED bulb is already sold by Philips in the US and Europe.

LED bulbs face competition from compact fluorescent lights which are almost as energy efficient and cost a lot less.

Sales of more energy efficient bulbs are being aided by official moves to end production of higher wattage incandescent bulbs.

Production of 100 watt bulbs has ceased in the US and Europe. Production of 60 watt bulbs has been stopped in Europe and is being phased out in the US. From 2014, incandescent bulbs of 40 watts or above will be banned in the US.
http://www.bbc.com/news/technology-17788178


Hm, I didn't know this.. according to the article 100 watt incandescent bulbs are already banned and even 40 watt incandescent will be banned by 2014. 100 watt use way too much juice anyway I've never used those BUT -- people should have an equivalent option though if they really require a bright light in their home or business. Also a 40 watt ban, that's harsh, 40 watt is normal that's not a bright light but I guess the intention here is for everyone to use fluorescent which is fine with me.

I'm on the fluroescent bulbs now. I can't remember last time I checked if those come in a 100 watt option, but what I have is fine with me it's like what $5 or $7 and they last five years or so.

Now an LED bulb.. 20 year life for $60, I think you're better off with the 5 year life on a fluorescent.
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Re: US introduces $60 LED light bulb, bans bulbs 40 watts &

Unread postby eXpat » Sun 22 Apr 2012, 22:13:57

Sixstrings wrote:I'm on the fluroescent bulbs now. I can't remember last time I checked if those come in a 100 watt option, but what I have is fine with me it's like what $5 or $7 and they last five years or so.

Now an LED bulb.. 20 year life for $60, I think you're better off with the 5 year life on a fluorescent.

Maybe I have been really unlucky, but I never, ever had a fluroescent bulb that had lasted what they advertise, with normal use. Ever.
On the other hand, I had incandescent lamps, that lasted way beyond expectations.
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Re: US introduces $60 LED light bulb, bans bulbs 40 watts &

Unread postby PrestonSturges » Mon 23 Apr 2012, 01:05:35

So why did the Bush adminsitration pass these regs?
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Re: US introduces $60 LED light bulb, bans bulbs 40 watts &

Unread postby EnergyUnlimited » Mon 23 Apr 2012, 01:58:03

eXpat wrote:
Sixstrings wrote:I'm on the fluroescent bulbs now. I can't remember last time I checked if those come in a 100 watt option, but what I have is fine with me it's like what $5 or $7 and they last five years or so.

Now an LED bulb.. 20 year life for $60, I think you're better off with the 5 year life on a fluorescent.

Maybe I have been really unlucky, but I never, ever had a fluroescent bulb that had lasted what they advertise, with normal use. Ever.
On the other hand, I had incandescent lamps, that lasted way beyond expectations.

One of my fluorescent bulbs (Phillips) is lasting for 12 years in a fore-room where it is often switched on or off.
Its long life is causing amusement in family.
I have few others which are lasting 8 years or so.
Only those in bathrooms cannot make it that long.
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Re: US introduces $60 LED light bulb, bans bulbs 40 watts &

Unread postby cephalotus » Mon 23 Apr 2012, 06:34:04

I only have LED bulbs im my appartment, Osram 12W (810lm) and LEDON 10W (600lm) bulbs which are bright enough to replace 75W or 50W bulbs. They also give a warm light with a good spectrum and can be swicthed on and off 1 million times. They provide maximum light intensity in less than 1 second, the LEDON can even be switched to a dimmend mode with 2W.

They are expensive but efficient and good quality. I can't say much about longitivity, I bought the first LED bulb just 1 year ago. (longitivity in LED mostly is related to temperature, the cooler the better). As an experiment I bought one noname bulb form China that was cheap, but had a horrible light quality and died within a few weeks.

Only in the big chandelier in the living room I use halogen bulbs as a replacement for standard light bulbs. 5x 33W instead of 5x 40W. Not very efficient, but that light is rarely switched on and mostly dimmed anyway. With energy prices at almost 25€ct/kWh (tarif with 100% renewables) you tend to use efficient technology :-)

(and for artificial lights for my plants - legal ones, see nickname - I use ultra efficient T5 flourescent tubes that have more than 110lm/W, better than most LED)
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Re: US introduces $60 LED light bulb, bans bulbs 40 watts &

Unread postby dinopello » Mon 23 Apr 2012, 11:23:06

There doesn't seem to be any "ban" on anything. I just bought at Home Cheapo a 150W incadescent for a dimmer torchiere lamp that my mom has. Here it is.
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Re: US introduces $60 LED light bulb, bans bulbs 40 watts &

Unread postby PrestonSturges » Mon 23 Apr 2012, 14:53:26

dinopello wrote:There doesn't seem to be any "ban" on anything. I just bought at Home Cheapo a 150W incadescent for a dimmer torchiere lamp that my mom has. Here it is.


Indeed, Lowes is fully stocked including lots and lots of 100 watt bulbs, which I rarely if ever use.
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Re: US introduces $60 LED light bulb, bans bulbs 40 watts &

Unread postby Sixstrings » Mon 23 Apr 2012, 16:32:47

PrestonSturges wrote:So why did the Bush adminsitration pass these regs?


That's a good point.

This lightbulb thing is being pushed by the right wing, I only know about it because I read Drudge. Funny if you're right, if it was Bush that passed the regs. :lol:

Anyhow.. progress is good. If we were all conservative neanderthals we wouldn't even have the fluorescent bulbs for our lamps. I wonder why that took so long? Fluorescent lighting has been around since the 1930's I think. Seems obvious now, make a little fluorescent to fit lamps.

As for LED.. the above poster is happy with his, sounds good if the light quality is good yet it's low wattage that's a win. What's all this mean for peak resources -- are we doomers wrong? Are there enough rare earths and whatnot for everyone to have LED bulbs etc.?

Incidentally.. was watching a science show the other day.. one day we'll all have LED diodes on the wall, instead of paint. Then you can change the look of your rooms to anything you want, or use it as TVs to get a holodeck effect. Also LED's are going to be in clothing, so you can change color and / or visual effects.
Last edited by Sixstrings on Mon 23 Apr 2012, 17:11:21, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: US introduces $60 LED light bulb, bans bulbs 40 watts &

Unread postby TreeFarmer » Mon 23 Apr 2012, 17:01:26

Maybe I have been really unlucky, but I never, ever had a fluroescent bulb that had lasted what they advertise, with normal use. Ever.


We must be buying our bulbs at the same place because my expereince is 100% your experience.

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Re: US introduces $60 LED light bulb, bans bulbs 40 watts &

Unread postby AdTheNad » Mon 23 Apr 2012, 17:36:39

That article tells us there is an energy efficient LED bulb, and a less energy efficient LED bulb, but neglects to tell us how much more energy efficient either one is, or indeed how much energy they use at all.
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Re: US introduces $60 LED light bulb, bans bulbs 40 watts &

Unread postby Outcast_Searcher » Mon 23 Apr 2012, 23:12:32

TreeFarmer wrote:
Maybe I have been really unlucky, but I never, ever had a fluroescent bulb that had lasted what they advertise, with normal use. Ever.


We must be buying our bulbs at the same place because my expereince is 100% your experience.

Treefarmer

I, being a cheapskate, like to buy my mini-flourescent 60 watt equivalent bulbs (actually about 14 watt if memory serves) in the 12-pack contractor boxes at Home improvement stores. In my experience, these cost about $1.50 apiece.

My experience is PURE RANDOMNESS. I'll get a box where they seem to last a LONG time. I'll get another box where lots of them make noise when you shake them, some of them don't work at all, and others burn out quickly.

My theory is the "bad" boxes are ones that were mistreated (i.e. dropped by a moron).

Who knows?

Now, for a $1.50 bulb, well early failure is mildly annoying...

However, for a $60 bulb (or even a third that), it's COMPLETELY UNACCEPTABLE. If these things don't come with some kind of multi-year guarantee, why buy them as they don't seem much more energy efficient than the cheap mini-spiral CFL bulbs?
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Re: US introduces $60 LED light bulb, bans bulbs 40 watts &

Unread postby Tanada » Tue 24 Apr 2012, 05:27:40

TreeFarmer wrote:
Maybe I have been really unlucky, but I never, ever had a fluroescent bulb that had lasted what they advertise, with normal use. Ever.


We must be buying our bulbs at the same place because my expereince is 100% your experience.

Treefarmer


I have purchased CFL's at home improvement stores, big box stores, small hardware stores and even grocery stores and have yet to have one last 2 years, let alone the 7 claimed so often. IMO they are nothing but an environmentally polluting scam, 90% of the people who have them burn out just toss them in the trash that goes to the landfill instead of following all the safety recommendations for safe disposal.
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Re: US introduces $60 LED light bulb, bans bulbs 40 watts &

Unread postby AirlinePilot » Wed 25 Apr 2012, 01:32:12

Add another disgruntled buyer for the CFL's not lasting. I havent had one go past anything like a year yet.
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Re: US introduces $60 LED light bulb, bans bulbs 40 watts &

Unread postby argyle » Wed 25 Apr 2012, 01:46:19

I have all CFL's in my house.. but will switch to LEDs (as there is no mercury used in them, so more environmental friendly). However.. I think that I only have replaced on CFL so far.. That one was a philips 20watt, but it was also used when I was building the house, painting, etc.. so was moved around a lot, put in boxes, etc.. so the 'mistreatment" might have something to do with it. Even cheap IKEA ones last long here also (4yrs and none broken), but they are much slower to 'ignite' and don't burn as bright..

Maybe it has more to do with the electrical wiring, fluctuations in the voltage, etc why at some places they don't last that long? Not sure, but it's been good here..

Leds are now more affordable, and I'll move into those now..
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