JRP3 wrote:You might be able to take advantage of the new lithium sulfur batteries from Wintston/Thundersky that should be available next year, around 220 wh/kg.
If I haven't purchased my pack by then, yes. I'm currently considering a 300V 100AH pack of CALB batteries, and if I can find one, a used Zilla 1k HV, and if I can't, a Soliton Jr. Those are the only major purchases I have yet to make. When I have enough PTO to get back to St. Louis for a week, I am going to attempt to run it at 12V under its own power.
These guys are doing some interesting things with lightweight materials for EV's and using the new Yasa motors. Cd could be better but they are heading in the right direction.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JvWduKDj3Tk
If only I could view it from this library computer. I will comment on it after I get a chance to view it.
Mesuge wrote:As you know LiFePO4 "bricks" are not meant for peak power application (~3C discharge), that's why Tesla is using and refining that particular approach of utilizing mega serio-parallel pack of smaller cells, and it's a cross platform approach not only aimed at sportscar segment Roadster (RAV4, Smart, ..).
In order to effectively utilize LiFePO4 in automotive application you need lots of space, so there goes t-shape tunnel like in EV1 or similarly in Volt/Karma.
This is true. A 800 lb pack of the CALB batteries could still allow 120+ horsepower at the motor reliably though, which is more than enough for a highway capable vehicle. In a purpose built ultralite streamliner, this could easily be a top speed of over 150 mph and a 0-60 mph time of under 7 seconds, or for a midsized non-streamlined car, 0-60 mph in 12 seconds and a top speed of 90 mph absent a transmission.
Space is far more of an issue for lead acid. LiFePO4 is a miracle by comparision, and the automakers were able to make lead acid work with a real-world 80-100 miles range in some of their cars.
The big auto can easily reproduced something like rehashed EV1 alu chassis/resin body either in coupe or sedan/hatch version with 200km (realistic not PR joke) range.
They were doing prototypes of such 20 years ago with batteries 1/4-1/2 as dense as LiFePO4.
But would you buy one, when massproduced econonoboxes with 60-70mpg of today will remain cheaper by 2-3x?
Considering those econoboxes aren't available in the U.S. to begin with and provided I was actually seeking to buy a new car, yes... and I'm certainly not alone.
Buying a new car here doesn't make economic sense though in general, as there are plenty of 30 mpg cars in the $2,000 cost range.
That's the same repeating burning question. It still doesn't make sense for most people in our current setting of disposable toys and appliances with cheap running energy on top of that.
It makes plenty of sense, provided the car is going to be kept for its designed lifespan and isn't going to be traded in for a new one when the owner gets bored with it. Some people treat their vehicles in a utilitarian manner, and that is the market where EVs will excel. It may not be a majority of the market, but it is a sizable one and one big enough to where such a venture could be profitable. The only problem is having the capability to produce a high enough volume to make that possible; for the major automakers, these sales would cannabalize those of already existing ICE vehicles that also make money for the autonmakers with their maintenance and upkeep.
However, when the gas/diesel gov. vouchers hit the street, it will be too late both for producers and consumers to adapt rapidly.
I agree. That's also what I am afraid is going to happen.
I'm certainly not saying EVs don't work, but you have to be deep pocketed individual living in ClubMed/Calif area (PV) or near 24/365 running creek for small hydro. And by that time you might rather appreciate offroad version instead of speedy or city low rider. And since Fiat-Chrysler killed that EV programme, no EV Jeeps are on the horizon either, I'm not talking about diy possibilities though.
If I had land, I'd have already set up some very cheap DIY wind mills. It's certainly not happening where I live today, as the city would not like a 60' tower with a 20' diameter rotor much... but it would be more than adequate to power a small, streamlined EV for 12,000 miles a year and then some with a properly sized auxillary battery bank(usually using those UPS batteries that the poster of this topic mentioned) placed way out in the boonies. I've built smaller windmills before and there isn't much to it; a child could be taught the process. By far, a single large homebuilt wind turbine is the cheapest way to have your own off-grid electricity supply, but it is only suitable in an area with adequate wind(average wind speed at minimum 4 mph; the machines I've built usually wouldn't even rotate until wind exceeded 8 mph), and it has a high but not inaccessible cost associated with building it. Such a large 20' diameter machine placed in an area with a minimally adequate average wind speed will not be adequate to provide an off-grid living standard similar to what middle class Americans are accustomed to, but it will run a top-loading energy efficient refrigirator, a laptop for a few hours a day, lights, and even have enough left over to run a small, efficient EV(sports car, ultralite, ect.) for 30 miles a day.
Even a small DIY wind machine with a 7' diameter rotor placed 25-30' in the air, built for ~$1,200, could provide ~2 kWh/day in St. Louis, MO, with an average wind speed of less than 4 mph(most of the energy will be produced during gusts that exceed the cut-in speed, and you will not see any produced some days). When accounting for charging losses of the wind turbine's battery bank, the charge controller, a vehicle's charger and pack, you can realistically expect ~1 kWh to be delivered into the vehicle.
Back onto the subject of advanced EV batteries, the LiFePO4 currently available would excel in stationary applications due to their long shelf life and cycle life compared to lead acid. Their overall life cycle costs are lower than lead acid, even if per kWh they are slightly more expensive, and per peak kW, far more expensive. A properly sized LiFePO4 bank could not only act as an energy storage device for an off-grid system, but also as a stash of replacement batteries if any in the EV ever fail.
I expect many Americans will rediscover the inventive spirit that captured this nation during the industrial revolution after collapse hits, and there will be a lot of useless junk to scavenge parts from(what good are TVs or computers with no grid-tied electricity to run them?). 1st worlders take for granted the ability to flip a switch and have light. They take for granted the ability to push a pedal with their foot and be taken somewhere. These things will not become extinct, although those who want them will either be very rich or have to work hard to have them!
I'm of the opinion the mobility bonanza of yesterday will just crash into the wall, only the wealthy and couple of their minions will continue driving traditional cars on daily basis. The rest will have to stay home and work in cottage or local industries, agriculture and gardens. The attempt to revive waterways and animals will help some, but this will be of token significance. Check 100-150yrs old photos from your area, we are not exactly going into repeating this exact setting, but in terms of energy usage some similiraties apply. Especially in transportation less fat, more walking.
And that's the uber optimisitc (unreal aka "no final war") scenario anyway
I am of the opinion that electric assist bicycles will be in extremely high demand in the not too distant future(whether they are produced in enough volume to meet it is another issue). Producing enough electricity to run one entirely without human assist for 10 miles a day is a fairly trivial task; a typical window air conditioning unit will use as much energy in about 10 minutes of operation.
The unnecessary felling of a tree, perhaps the old growth of centuries, seems to me a crime little short of murder. ~Thomas Jefferson