JohnConnor wrote:Pressure tends to focus the mind - I think Americans would grasp growing their own food quickly (it would still be painful and difficult but would get done) and good point on the Visigoths. A similair situation as the Romans had exhausted their primary fuel source (wood) and the cascading error was quickly spreading through their society, causing them to all kinds of irrational, short-sighted, self-destructive behaviour.
I think I made the mistake of implying that we should be wary of Mexico in the sense that this probable event (mass migration caused by the chaos of peak oil) is something we should not try to prepare for in a humane way but only with a massive defensive preparation. Just as you can't kill your way out the war on terror (that is a tactic not a strategy) you can't just wall yourself in and hope it just goes away outside your borders, border control is a tactic to be used in the strategy of dealing with the MASSIVE and complex problem of resource/energy peak and decline through preparations that allow you to handle the symptoms in a mangable sequence and order.
We can solve our problems, just not all at once.
rangerone314 wrote:The problem is peak oil will change the dynamic so that even drying up JOBS here might not stop a general migration. Here is where military force might be needed. A 100,000 troops with UAVs might secure the border & boats could be dealt with by a blockade and aerial surveillance.
President Barack Obama's administration will Wednesday name a high-ranking official to deal with illegal immigration and spillover drug violence at the US-Mexico border, an official said.
The announcement, to be made by Homeland Security Secretary Janet Napolitano in Texas will come a day before Obama visits Mexico and after the administration said it would post hundreds of extra agents on the US side of the border.
Napolitano will name former federal prosecutor Alan Bersin to the post, the official from the Department of Homeland Security said on condition of anonymity, ahead of the announcement expected later in Texas.
Mexican authorities arrested a woman guarding an arsenal that included the first anti-aircraft machine gun seized in Mexico, police said Tuesday, as the army announced the capture of an alleged top drug cartel lieutenant.
The arsenal belonged to a group linked to the powerful Beltran-Leyva drug cartel, federal police coordinator Gen. Rodolfo Cruz said. It also included ammunition, five rifles, a grenade and part of a grenade launcher.
JohnConnor wrote:100K troops with UAVs, naval vessels, ground vehicles, detention centers, return costs, etc... will add up and it does not do anything about solving the problem, a nation next door to us sliding or falling into chaos and its people naturally and understandbly fleeing this to a better situation...
I think that greatly increasing out border patrol force in urban areas with physical barriers, triple the agents and technology, along with about 10K troops patrolling open, sparse areas with the coasts and skies patrolled as required as the first step to be followed the long term strategy:
Negotiate debt forgiveness and assistance for population growth control measures (all US foreign aid/assistance should be based on this).
Negotiate for acess into Mexico's remaining reserves, they get money and we get more fuel to make the transition slightly easier.
Reducing population has got to become a higher priority (for the USA too) for all nations but especially ones that have "surplus" populations that will risk life and limb to get a job that probably will not pay much. Plus, I really don't want to eat solylent green crackers....
Ludi wrote:rangerone314 wrote:The problem is peak oil will change the dynamic so that even drying up JOBS here might not stop a general migration. Here is where military force might be needed. A 100,000 troops with UAVs might secure the border & boats could be dealt with by a blockade and aerial surveillance.
How does that work out with state sovereignty? Do the border states have 100,000 state troops? Or are you saying the Federal Military should secure the border? Do folks want that many federal troops mobilized in their border state?
Confronting a security threat on America's doorstep, President Barack Obama is venturing into the heart of Mexico. His swift diplomatic mission is meant to show solidarity with a neighbor — and to prove that the U.S. is serious about halting the deadly flow of drugs and weapons.
During his stop in Mexico City on Thursday, Obama will emphasize cross-border cooperation and probably put a focus on clean energy, but the economic crisis and the bloody drug trade have set the tone.
stu wrote:In Mexico, Obama to offer solidarity in drug warConfronting a security threat on America's doorstep, President Barack Obama is venturing into the heart of Mexico. His swift diplomatic mission is meant to show solidarity with a neighbor — and to prove that the U.S. is serious about halting the deadly flow of drugs and weapons.
During his stop in Mexico City on Thursday, Obama will emphasize cross-border cooperation and probably put a focus on clean energy, but the economic crisis and the bloody drug trade have set the tone.
gnm wrote:The most devastating thing the government could do to the drug cartels would be to legalize the drugs. It would wipe out their profits and ruin their ability to pay off politicians and police.
JohnConnor wrote:Good point gmn...drugs give criminals money, oil gives terrorists (or people/governments that give them money) money and capability...
Of course neither of those would not happen if we (USA, Canada, Europe, Japan, etc...) didn't buy drugs or base our societies on oil but I digress...
So how this?
Tactics and Strategy:
Secure the borders, ports and enforce immigration laws, deport incarcerated criminal aliens.
Link debt and foreign aid to Mexico and Central America to zero/negative population growth.
Decriminalize drugs making the government the drug dealer thereby greatly reducing the money/power of organized crime and terrorists.
If this fails - Plan B can always be put into effect...
Establish a zone of control along our entire southern border about 5 miles wide under the direct control of the US military with martial law put into effect permanently. Mine as required and establish a free-fire policy with no warning.
Establish a new state consisting of the Baja, Sonora, Chihuhua, Cohulia, Nuevo Leon, and Tamaulipas free of the current nation of Mexico.
Establish bases as necessary inside of it and provide support to allow for this new buffer state to be used as a first line of defense.
But this could be all unnecessary... I thought Russia was going to fall with that attempted coup in the late 90's but Yeltsin pulled through, not that they didn't slide into authoritarian rule anyway but in a controlled manner...Calderon may weather this storm and keep Mexico functioning as a viable state...never count a nation out until it actually happens...watch "The Power of Community" about Cuba surviving early Peak Oil...it is amazing that they pulled through (regardless of what we think of their government)...
Also, decriminalizing drugs may happen in this country if we can just convince our drunken sailors called Congress that they will make more money selling drugs directly to our own people who are going to do them whether we want them to or not than receiving contributions from the drug war and prison industrial complex....
Mexico's government is hiring more police and sending federal agents to the bloody border city of Ciudad Juarez, where it already has thousands of troops trying to quell drug violence.
President Felipe Calderon, who has made crushing drug gangs a central goal of his government, sent 10,000 soldiers and federal police into Ciudad Juarez in March.
Five men dead in an apartment. In a county that might see five homicides in an entire year, the call over the sheriff's radio revealed little about what awaited law enforcement at a sprawling apartment complex.
A type of crime, and criminal, once foreign to this landscape of blooming dogwoods had arrived in Shelby County. Sheriff Chris Curry felt it even before he laid eyes on the grisly scene. He called the state. The FBI. The DEA. Anyone he could think of.
"I don't know what I've got," he warned them. "But I'm gonna need help."
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