Timo wrote:Is REAL Economic Growth Possible?
Timo wrote:Perhaps the better question to ask, instead of the relative severity of our current economic doldrums is to figure out what, if anything, can fuel a new economic recovery. The first question to ask is: 1) is an economic recovery possible? The next question, then, would be: 2) What will fuel a new economic recovery? The last question would be (if we can even get that far): 3) How significant would that new growth be relative to our status quo?
These may seem easy to answer, but i highly suspect that growth is possible ONLY given HUGE technological advancement. Suppose, for example, that fusion is proven reliable, efficient, and unlimited. That discovery would tend to all of our energy needs. But, this discovery would also put tens of thousands of coal miners and oil companies out of work. I know this situation isn't likely at all within our lifetimes, but one persons gain is another persons unemployment.
Have fun.
Sixstrings wrote: trees grow back, ecologies recover with time.
Timo wrote:Thanks, everyone. I notice we have a few different, but well rationed opinions/predictions on the possibilities of REAL growth. Now, let me complicate the questions even more. Let's assume that some level of growth is possible, be it 3% or even 0.5%. It is absolutely correct that the grid and transportation infrastructure, water lines, building habits, etc... must be undertaken, which presumably would cause some level of economic growth. However, under this assumption, what do you all see as the correlation between economic growth and our standard of living? Does local food equate to a standard of living currently enjoyed? Does higher density in cities equate to an increased standard of living? Who's standards will we choose to make this inevitable decision?
On a personal note, i can easily see going from 2 cars down to one (even an electric), starting my own business within walking distance from home, making less money than i do currently, and enjoying a greater standard of living. It would even constitute a higher quality of life for me and my family. But, this altered lifestyle would probablty not be equated with national economic recovery.
Suss it!
Timo wrote:2042??? What happened to 2012?
Timo wrote:Thanks, everyone. I notice we have a few different, but well rationed opinions/predictions on the possibilities of REAL growth. Now, let me complicate the questions even more. Let's assume that some level of growth is possible, be it 3% or even 0.5%. It is absolutely correct that the grid and transportation infrastructure, water lines, building habits, etc... must be undertaken, which presumably would cause some level of economic growth. However, under this assumption, what do you all see as the correlation between economic growth and our standard of living? Does local food equate to a standard of living currently enjoyed? Does higher density in cities equate to an increased standard of living? Who's standards will we choose to make this inevitable decision?
On a personal note, i can easily see going from 2 cars down to one (even an electric), starting my own business within walking distance from home, making less money than i do currently, and enjoying a greater standard of living. It would even constitute a higher quality of life for me and my family. But, this altered lifestyle would probablty not be equated with national economic recovery.
Suss it!
Ludi wrote:It takes nature approximately 1000 years to produce one inch of topsoil.
Animals and plants which have gone extinct do not "recover."
Sixstrings wrote:the Earth would recover without us and be just fine.
Nothing can be duller than listening to an economist or other policy expert pontificate endlessly on such metrics as gross domestic product, stock market prices, employment, and consumer confidence. Most of all they talk about GDP: Rising GDP is good; falling GDP is bad. But as a measure of economic activity, GDP is what it says it is: a gross number. It doesn’t measure how money and wealth circulates through a system, what use it is put to, how the rewards of its use are distributed. It just counts how much comes out of the spigot at the end of the pipe. This completely avoids taking into account what may be the most important indicator of economic health: equality. Epidemiological studies demonstrate that equality is essential to a host of physical, mental, and social health outcomes. Societies that are more equal
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