[Newfie]

Cid, good post.

I see so few butterflies.

[SeaGypsy]

Along my gypsy circuit figure 8- Australia, SE Asia, the most evident climate change is the deserts getting wetter, more frequent floods in the center of the continent, & in SE Asia, monsoons being more frequently delayed. Anecdotally the monsoons seem very different to decades ago, much more punctuated, intense storms with more wind than rain & long breaks of extreme heat & humidity with no cloud cover in the middle of what used to be clockwork daily rain cycles for months on end. Years ago in SE Asia there was no beach tourism in monsoon season, if you went anywhere far from an airport connected highway you were almost sure to get stranded. These days the monsoon is often late & there are many hot sunny days in the midst of it, so of course business notices.
The deserts are stunning in flood.

I don't go to Western Australia much at all, but I believe they have the most certain negative climate change weather data, most significantly a sustained falling away of rainfall totals for the entire southern agricultural area. We have a couple of Wozzies here- Sparky & Shaved Monkey, though haven't seen shaved much lately, it is his peak production period now late tropical dry season, the cool.

[furrybill]

I voted for NOW. In southern Maine this past winter's 100+ inches of snow and gyrations in temperature [January the warmest on record, February the coldest, March the 2nd warmest, no frost in May, etc.] can all be tied back to global warming. I'm willing to admit that one probably can't relate with 100% certainty my local weather to global climate, but my instincts say the connection exists.

My step-father who lives next door is around 70 years old, grew up across the street, hunted and trapped and farmed here, says the changes are obvious to him. The thing that upsets him about global warming is that it will wipe us out but take most of the rest of the biosphere with us. He was always hoping for a killer virus...

[Newfie]

Wise man.

[jedrider]

I voted for NOW. In southern Maine this past winter's 100+ inches of snow and gyrations in temperature [January the warmest on record, February the coldest, March the 2nd warmest, no frost in May, etc.] can all be tied back to global warming. I'm willing to admit that one probably can't relate with 100% certainty my local weather to global climate, but my instincts say the connection exists.

My step-father who lives next door is around 70 years old, grew up across the street, hunted and trapped and farmed here, says the changes are obvious to him. The thing that upsets him about global warming is that it will wipe us out but take most of the rest of the biosphere with us. He was always hoping for a killer virus...

I voted 10 years because many of us are DENYING the impact. My state is drying out and burning up, so that is NOW. The weather is clearly changed from only 30 years ago. It is just not the same. The cold and damp long winters have disappeared. The summers are still relatively mild, but now HUMID, and so, not as comfortable. What's next? In ten years, I think we will have a very good idea of what's in store for us.

[Pops]

I clicked 100 years.

The reason for no option between 10 and 100 years is simply that 10 years (not to mention NOW or 10 years ago) is within a window that I would expect lots of people to be talking about all the things they are doing to improve their situation in light of GW. Especially if they already are feeling the effects to such an extent — 10% is a large hit, I'm surprised the economy is on it's feet at all. If my food expenses went from 10% of my income to 20%, I'm pretty sure Id be doing something about it.

Beyond 10 years is so far off to be basically meaningless for most practical intents beyond the stuff a good citizen should be expected to do: reduce, reuse, etc.

[onlooker]

I think the science and the observable evidence is making clearer that global warming/climate change is getting ever closer to significantly impacting most places in the world. Right now serious impacts are being felt and serious consequences are manifesting themselves. In general I think the Northern Hemisphere will be affected less seriously in the next 10 years then the Southern Hemisphere as the already warm temperatures in the South coupled with the large and impoverished populations will truly make this a kind of apocalypse for them as their agriculture will fail and already water stresses appear ready to take front and center. So their ability to cope will be truly tested. In the North we will be feeling and will feel more impacts but I think within the next 10 years we will be able to overcome these effects. Now all bets are off for the planet 10 or more years from now, as I mentioned very real and discernible patters are emerging that show that abrupt and serious climate change stands poised to radically alter the Earth.
I post think link to update where the science and scientists stand right now relevant to GW: http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/ne ... e-20150805

[Lore]

The 100 year option is the default, I'm whistling past the graveyard. Not in my lifetime. I'm unaware of any legitimate scientific study that doesn't represent significant issues from climate change well within that period.

[Timo]

I'm sticking with now. The climate has most definitely changed since i was a kid, and i was born and grew up a block away from where i live now. For the previouis 100 years, we've been a Zone 4 for gardening. Now, we're a solid Zone 5, and pushing toward Zone 6. How does that happen without observable, measureable changes in the climate? Plus, i do travel (not as much as i'd like to). I've witnessed the rapid retreat of glaciers feeding Alaska's Aialik Bay. I've witnessed the flooding of Venice's St. Peter's Square. I know that's been going on for some time, but the underlying fact is that those floods started within my lifetime, and now they're a regular occurrance. There a very, very few places on the planet, inhabited by people, that enjoy the same climate today tha was present 100 years ago. Spring comes earlier and earlier in most places now. Fall sets in later and later. Snow in some places is much heavier, while in other places, it no longer snows at all.

In personable terms, these changes could be attributed to temporary changes in weather patterns, but on a global scale, with the overwhelming scientific evidence being produced on a daily basis, there can be no denying that these temporary changes in the weather are anything but! The changes are happening right now, affecting different areas of the globe in different ways, but collectively spelling catastrophe for the planet, as a whole.

Those who deny climate change are like gamblers, ignoring the factual evidence that the odds are against them in whatever game they're playing. For the politicans who are the deniers, the stakes they're gambling away are the future abilities of the planet to sustain life. They hear the evidence that the odds are against them, but they ignore the odds because #1) they're afraid to recognize the future that awaits us all, so they present a facade of denial in order to give hope to everyone who will keep giving them money; or #2) they're stupid mofos who refuse to recognize reality; or #3) they're psychologically addicted to gambling, and need serious help and therapy in order to continue functioning in society before their additions cause the collapse of society, itself.

If you think GW will not present itself where you live for the next 100 years, you are simply perpetuating the problem by denying that we are in crisis mode right now. Unless we do something now (preferrably 50 years ago!), we're locked in to the Book of Revelations, and we'll all burn in the oven we built for ourselves. But, if we give ourselves some time, telling ourselves that the real effects of GW won't set in for another 10 to 100 years, then we have even less time to come to a boil and die.

I hope everyone has a nice GW free weekend. And just remember, reality is only based on our own, personal observations. There is no sense in thinking globally when i, myself, will be dead within the next 50 years. I needn't worry or take responsibility for anyone but myself.

[Tanada]

I clicked 100 years.

The reason for no option between 10 and 100 years is simply that 10 years (not to mention NOW or 10 years ago) is within a window that I would expect lots of people to be talking about all the things they are doing to improve their situation in light of GW. Especially if they already are feeling the effects to such an extent — 10% is a large hit, I'm surprised the economy is on it's feet at all. If my food expenses went from 10% of my income to 20%, I'm pretty sure Id be doing something about it.

Beyond 10 years is so far off to be basically meaningless for most practical intents beyond the stuff a good citizen should be expected to do: reduce, reuse, etc.

Climate change isn't limited to your food costs Pops. What about your utility costs in heat waves/cold snaps? What about your access to water and the costs associated with that? In a stable climate you get within 1 SD of average for all of those factors every year. The last time North America had a month with temperatures below the average was 29 years ago. That doesn't mean anything in isolation, but it does drive all sorts of other factors, especially potable water supplies. Without water in sufficient supply your get limited crops, and in a drought or flood you lose most or all of the crops.

Also I can't speak for anyone else but my food costs have risen quite a bit over the last decade. Have you priced coffee lately?

[Timo]

Also I can't speak for anyone else but my food costs have risen quite a bit over the last decade. Have you priced coffee lately?

Yes. Coffee is being negatively affected by rust and fungus at warmer, lower elevations. Pesticides and herbicides are now requiste for volume production. Lower yields. Lower qualities. Higher prices.

At least the world will be a less high-strung off all that caffiene. Those who continue to drink coffee will be a lot poorer. God bless them.

[Pops]

Timo:
"If you think GW will not present itself where you live for the next 100 years, you are simply perpetuating the problem"

Ah, so shaming me into jumping on the Doom-Train is your solution to the problem?

The similarity to PO doom 10 years ago is not at all surprising. The great crusade was to convince the skeptics and shame the deniers. Out of the million and whatever posts on this site I wonder exactly how many minds were actually changed. Maybe informed if receptive but changed?

I'm thinking not too many.

Now, if you all posted up your current and ongoing efforts to lower your consumption, income, "footprint", and schemes to avoid the doom that is GW I might be impressed.

Otherwise, I've heard it all before.

[Timo]

Timo:
"If you think GW will not present itself where you live for the next 100 years, you are simply perpetuating the problem"

Ah, so shaming me into jumping on the Doom-Train is your solution to the problem?

The similarity to PO doom 10 years ago is not at all surprising. The great crusade was to convince the skeptics and shame the deniers. Out of the million and whatever posts on this site I wonder exactly how many minds were actually changed. Maybe informed if receptive but changed?

I'm thinking not too many.

Now, if you all posted up your current and ongoing efforts to lower your consumption, income, "footprint", and schemes to avoid the doom that is GW I might be impressed.

Otherwise, I've heard it all before.

Whatever works. Choose your own medicine. Just don't claim that nobody told you about our collective problems when you had the cahnce to address them. Or, just ignore them and hope they go away.

Logic and reason, and scientific evidence has proven futile in everyone's attempts to jumpstart action on AGW. If shame is a functional tool, so be it. It might actually prove to be more useful. Logic and reason have certainly failed.

Do you have any other suggestions for convincing people that our future depends on our present actions?

[Pops]

Whatever works. Choose your own medicine. Just don't claim that nobody told you about our collective problems when you had the cahnce to address them. Or, just ignore them and hope they go away.

Your point is than I'm not wringing my hands sufficiently.

My point is you are doing nothing except wring your hands.

Do you have any other suggestions for convincing people that our future depends on our present actions?

Yeah.
Do something.

[Newfie]

Pops

We live on the boat part time now, full time shortly.

That makes us pretty close to off grid, not entirely.

Are you impressed?

We bought 168 acres of wood lot, Adjacent lot was clear cut.

Does that do anything for you?

I've worked running and building mass transit for 39 years. To me it means squat all, but I tried.

[Timo]

Whatever works. Choose your own medicine. Just don't claim that nobody told you about our collective problems when you had the cahnce to address them. Or, just ignore them and hope they go away.

Your point is than I'm not wringing my hands sufficiently.

My point is you are doing nothing except wring your hands.

Do you have any other suggestions for convincing people that our future depends on our present actions?

Yeah.
Do something.

I spent my entire adult life trying to do something, all for naught. Master's degree in City Planning, thinking I could help design cities and our infrastructure with the future in mind, rather than immediate needs, and low cost as the prime objective. Obviously, my attempts have proven futile. Thinking and focusing on the small agendas is meaningless. Attempting to change policies and ways of thinking from the inside does not work. The founder of city planning once said, Make no small plans, for they have not the passion to stir men's souls. I was more influenced by the book, Small is Beautiful. Now, in hindsight, Burnham was right. The changes necessary at this very moment are so massive in scale that they are, buy definition, impossible to achieve.

America was built as a bottom-up form of democracy. Power to the people. Power from the people. Power for the people. The British Empire was the opposite, top-down form of government. People were told what policies to adopt and implement by their superiors. The US is rapidly becoming that very form of government today. The individual has no voice, unless you're a corporation who contributes hundreds of millions of dollars to a PAC.

The changes we need must come from the top, if only the top was not hell-bent on continuation of BAU, which is designed to further consolidate their power into fewer and fewer hands.

So, I guess you're right in your suggestion, only doing anything is meaningless for the human collective, at least at our level. Trying to convince TPTB to make changes is pointless. At this point, the writing is on the wall that we're all in this for ourselves. So, on that note, do whatever the hell you want. In the end, it won't make a damned bit of difference. I'm speaking from my own experience.

[dohboi]

Nicely put, Timo and Newf.

The implication that people on this board haven't 'done something' and done and done and done...to death...that presumption is pretty f'n obnoxious.

Perhaps we should start a thread where we can all chronicle our history of frustrated attempts to make any impact on pretty much anything...nah, too depressing; so... BACK TO DOOM!!!

[onlooker]

Exactly and beside what can one or a few persons do against this tidal wave of consequences heading our way. Pretty presumptuous for anyone to question the actions or lack thereof of others. As the bible said "those who have not sinned throw the first stone"

[SeaGypsy]

What one can do is prepare. There is no preparation with any warrantee,

[Newfie]

Hence the boat.