[KaiserJeep]

This is what we are talking about:

The years when actual yields varied above/below the trendline on the chart represent primarily the impact of rainfall totals. You plan for the average rainfall and then take what you get.

"Agricultural Science" started to happen in the early 1940's when a labor shortage caused by WW2 had to be overcome by technological improvements. These included crop-specific machinery such as tractor widths configured for corn rows and corn-specific harvesters. I remember harvesting corn by hand on my Grandfather's dairy farm in the late 1950's, I don't think there was a corn harvester then anywhere in Arkansas. But I will say that walking down a row of corn, surrounded by other family members, wearing gloves and stripping ears to toss into the horse drawn wagon, is pretty near the bottom of my list of favorite things. Turning the cast iron "cob stripper" crank back at the barn wasn't any fun either.

Even then, my Grandfather was using heirloom corn varieties that were intended to dry on the stalk and get harvested by hand, and the totally dry kernels placed in a simple wooden "corn crib" in the barn. He was growing corn that was mixed with hay for cattle feed. The cows ate grass most of the year and got a scoop of feed as an inducement to stay still and be milked. In the Winter they got feed exclusively and shoveling manure was a daily misery. Part of the harvest was saved for the following years seed. In the real grain belt states there was corn that was harvested and stripped off the cob and put into concrete "silos" with electric ventilation to finish drying. (I lived and went to school in Illinois and worked Summers on the farm in Arkansas.)

Grandfather also grew "sweet corn" in the "truck garden" for eating and canning and selling to the townies. He grew popcorn and stripped it on the cob stripper and partially dried it in the sun on canvas then stored it in a separate wooden cask in the barn. (Getting maximum pop was an art.) Both Sweet Corn and popcorn seeds were bought annually in small 5lb. cloth sacks.

The steady upward trend after 1960 reflects both improved hybrid varieties and improved fertilizer tech (including field-specific soil testing). I don't actually think any of the yield improvement is due to laboratory genetic modifications, but there are many corn hybrids for many microclimate variations. IIRC the Monsanto Roundup-resistant corn is for a "no-till" crop that requires less fuel to plant and then substitutes Roundup application for between-row cultivation that suppresses weeds. The primary benefit is the oil-sourced fuels it saves. It also conserves topsoil.

In any case, the yield improvements between 19th Century corn and animal power (25 bushels/acre) and oil-powered machinery and specific hybrids (150 bushels/acre) can be seen, a six-fold increase.

[PrestonSturges]

Done a lot of plant breeding, have you?

[SeaGypsy]

To this day most food grown where most people are is heirloom seed, gas fed nitrates, ancient birdshit for phosphate. Adding new heirlooms is not Monsanto or any other GM seed producer's business, in fact the opposite.

Coconuts thrive on mostly seawater, from latitude 20. New rice species are being developed as heirloom (community property) phu k Monsanto. Heirloom will win this war for the same reason we need air & water.

[onlooker]

But that is what really gets me. The audacity of Monsanto to attempt to corner the market on most food. This is the extent to which capitalism as come to. It really is perverse. I do not care if people brand me as communist or something quaint like that. This greed probably more then anything is what has bought us to this point. Sorry for the rant. That is the ultimate irony we may need to expertise of Monsanto folks to ultimately be able to feed humanity.

[Pops]

GMOs are in everything from your bruise resistant potato to your underwear, from your cheese to your vitamin A fortified rice, your milk and your sugar. They increase resistance to drought, viruses, pests,and so increase yields and reduce pesticide and fuel use.

This meta-study says

On average, GM technology adoption has reduced chemical pesticide use by 37%, increased crop yields by 22%, and increased farmer profits by 68%. Yield gains and pesticide reductions are larger for insect-resistant crops than for herbicide-tolerant crops. Yield and profit gains are higher in developing countries than in developed countries.

As far as Monsanto, they are no different in my book than any other corporation. They are out to make a profit at whatever cost. What is the surprise in that?

But whatever, arguing pinhead dancefloor angel capacity is a waste of time.
Have at it!
LOL
.

[fleance]

There countries that do not considers GMO as safe. They still choose non-GMO on foods.

[PrestonSturges]

There countries that do not considers GMO as safe. They still choose non-GMO on foods.

Countries like china, because pretending to care about food safety is easier than actually caring about food safety.

In the US for example, millions of people get sickened by food-borne illnesses every year and several thousand die. And exactly zero fucks are given by our supposed food safety activists.

[KaiserJeep]

Either you believe in technology, or you don't. Most advances in medicine and science have been regarded with skepticism by at least some people.

I have always been a believer. I have no doubt that even if it is not presently the case, eventually laboratory type GMO's will account for a major portion of our food supply.

Logically, we will also modify humans to live in space and on other planets or microgravity environments. Hopefully we won't be building genetic soldiers without qualms about killing - at least I hope we can avoid it.

As for assurances for safety - there are no such things. We live on a polluted planet among literally thousands of rapidly spreading toxins. Natural systems are breaking down under too many people and too many food animals and too much crop monoculture. This legacy of technology literally cannot be escaped no matter how far into the bush you flee. Nor is it any longer possible to distinguish the impact of individual chemical contaminants. Carson's Silent Spring was written 53 years ago, and nobody learned much from it.

Those who reject GMOs eventually get the choice between accepting such GMO food or starving, because of the productivity aspects of the modifications. We still are growing in numbers, natural systems are under more stress, and our options are dwindling.

As has been the case for 200+ years.

[Keith_McClary]

MAY 19, 2015
The End-Game for GMOs?
Are Monsanto’s Worst Fears Coming True?
by JONATHAN LATHAM

The decision of the Chipotle restaurant chain to make its product lines GMO-free is not most people’s idea of a world-historic event. Especially since Chipotle, by US standards, is not a huge operation. A clear sign that the move is significant, however, is that Chipotle’s decision was met with a tidal-wave of establishment media abuse. Chipotle has been called irresponsible, anti-science, irrational, and much more by the Washington Post, Time Magazine, the Chicago Tribune, the LA Times, and many others. A business deciding to give consumers what they want was surely never so contentious.
...
The first issue follows from the recent US approvals of GMO crops resistant to the herbicides 2,4-D and Dicamba. These traits are billed as replacements for Roundup-resistant traits whose effectiveness has declined due to the spread of weeds resistant to Roundup (Glyphosate).

The causes of the problem, however, lie in the technology itself. The introduction of Roundup-resistant traits in corn and soybeans led to increasing Roundup use by farmers (Benbrook 2012). Increasing Roundup use led to weed resistance, which led to further Roundup use, as farmers increased applications and dosages. This translated into escalated ecological damage and increasing residue levels in food. Roundup is now found in GMO soybeans intended for food use at levels that even Monsanto used to call “extreme” (Bøhn et al. 2014).

The two new herbicide-resistance traits are set to recapitulate this same story of increasing agrochemical use. But they will also amplify it significantly,

The specifics are worth considering. First, the spraying of 2,4-D and Dicamba on the newer herbicide-resistant crops will not eliminate the need for Roundup, whose use will not decline (see Figure).

That is because, unlike Roundup, neither 2,4-D nor Dicamba are broad-spectrum herbicides. They will have to be sprayed together with Roundup, or with each other (or all of them together) to kill all weeds. This vital fact has not been widely appreciated.

Confirmation comes from the companies themselves. Monsanto is stacking (i.e. combining) Dicamba resistance with Roundup resistance in its Xtend crops and Dow is stacking 2,4-D resistance with Roundup resistance in its Enlist range. (Notably, resistance to other herbicides, such as glufosinate, are being stacked in all these GMO crops too.)

The second issue is that the combined spraying of 2,4-D and Dicamba and Roundup, will only temporarily ease the weed resistance issues faced by farmers. In the medium and longer terms, they will compound the problems. That is because new herbicide-resistant weeds will surely evolve. In fact, Dicamba-resistant and 2,4-D-resistant weeds already exist. Their spread, and the evolution of new ones, can be guaranteed (Mortensen et al 2012). This will bring greater profits for herbicide manufacturers, but it will also bring greater PR problems for GMOs and the food industry. GMO soybeans and corn will likely soon have “extreme levels” of at least three different herbicides, all of them with dubious safety records (Schinasi and Leon 2014).

[PrestonSturges]

I believe that most weed and pest control will be tasked to robots at some point, because they will cheaper to operate than commercial sprayers.

They'll be playing the role of these guys, who do things like wading into the koi pond to polish each of the rocks on the bottom to keep them shiny and free of algae.

[Plantagenet]

...Chipotle has been called irresponsible, anti-science, irrational, and much more by the Washington Post, Time Magazine, the Chicago Tribune, the LA Times, and many others.....

So what?

Most people are ignorant about science and easily frightened by the names of chemicals and scientific processes they don't understand.

Its all part of the dumbing down of America.


GMOs are bad. Gimme more Chipotle burritos.

[PrestonSturges]

It's going to be harder to pin this all on monsanto since 2,4-D has been around 70 years etc, etc.

[Keith_McClary]

...Chipotle has been called irresponsible, anti-science, irrational, and much more by the Washington Post, Time Magazine, the Chicago Tribune, the LA Times, and many others.....

So what?

Most people are ignorant about science and easily frightened by the names of chemicals and scientific processes they don't understand.

Its all part of the dumbing down of America.

Pretty soon you will be as dumb as those Euros who ban GMO.

The point is, if it's GMO it has been doused with Roundup (and soon 2,4-D and Dicamba). You trust assurances from gubmint (department of ag promotion) officials that residues are at perfectly safe levels.

[onlooker]

Well, it seems to be like our use of antibiotics. We give more to patients to thwart illness but that in turn created resistant germs. So with herbicides and pesticides. The widespread use is so that more plants survive to in turn feed more people the problem is the toxicity levels get higher with more use and more types of Herbicides as Keith points out. We solve a problem short term but how will it affect life in the long term. Well in the long term it could certainly spell dire problems for all life.

[onlooker]

It seems truly a chimera to believe we can continue much longer to feed current population levels much less even higher population levels. Here are five outstanding stresses on ability to feed everyone:

We’re “running out completely of potassium (potash) and phosphorus (phosphates) and eroding our soils … Their total or nearly total depletion would make it impossible to feed the 10 billion people …
“Potassium and phosphorus are necessary for all life; they cannot be manufactured and cannot be substituted for …
“Globally, soil is eroding at a rate that is several times that of the natural replacement rate …
“Poor countries found mostly in Africa and Asia will almost certainly suffer from increasing malnutrition and starvation. The possibility of foreign assistance on the scale required seems remote.
“Many stresses on agriculture will be exacerbated … by increasing temperatures … increased weather instability … frequent and severe droughts and floods.”
So food miracles are running out. Unless Monsanto and others can find a way to create food out of thin air or perhaps utilize the most abundant food source ourselves.

[PrestonSturges]

It seems truly a chimera to believe we can continue much longer to feed current population levels much less even higher population levels. Here are five outstanding stresses on ability to feed everyone:

I could cruise the net asking this question a hundred times a day if I had time - if GMOs aren't the real problem, why are you wasting your life focused on GMOs if they are the wrong problem?

[Subjectivist]

Corn Plastic to the Rescue

Behold NatureWorks: the largest lactic-acid plant in the world. Into one end of the complex goes corn; out the other come white pellets, an industrial resin poised to become—if you can believe all the hype—the future of plastic in a post-petroleum world.

The resin, known as polylactic acid (PLA), will be formed into containers and packaging for food and consumer goods. The trendy plastic has several things going for it. It’s made from a renewable resource, which means it has a big leg up—both politically and environmentally—on conventional plastic packaging, which uses an estimated 200,000 barrels of oil a day in the United States. Also, PLA is in principle compostable, meaning that it will break down under certain conditions into harmless natural compounds. That could take pressure off the nation’s mounting landfills, since plastics already take up 25 percent of dumps by volume. And corn-based plastics are starting to look cheap, now that oil prices are so high.

http://www.smithsonianmag.com/science-n ... 126404720/

[Tanada]

I remember reading about a GMO form of sweet corn about 15 years ago that produced plastic sludge instead of sugar in the kernels. The problem was the corn lacked the enzymes to break down the sludge so the seeds were all sterile, making it costly because every year they had to take seed corn and inject each kernel with the genetically modified DNA. So far as I know they gave up on it around 2000 when the USDA grant money dried up.