[dorlomin]

2. The breakdown of the family unit, due to welfare taking the place of the family.

If you rely on the "family" unit you lose geographical mobility of the work force. One of the most important strengths of the American work force: its ability to travel to seek out the best work conditions.
You also will see a huge amount of money sucked out of circulation as people have to have large reserves available in case of job loss or so on. This is the "paradox of thrift", you end up with so much money being saved its a major drag on the economy and reduces the flow of capital to productive and risky enterprises.
Also countries with far more generous welfare programs have less issues with structural unemployment. I strongly suspect the failure is the underfunded schooling system that is maladapted to the low income urban poor, where the most resources should be targeted. A huge wealth of human capital is left to rot in the US ghettos.

[wildbourgman]

2. The breakdown of the family unit, due to welfare taking the place of the family.

If you rely on the "family" unit you lose geographical mobility of the work force. One of the most important strengths of the American work force: its ability to travel to seek out the best work conditions.
You also will see a huge amount of money sucked out of circulation as people have to have large reserves available in case of job loss or so on. This is the "paradox of thrift", you end up with so much money being saved its a major drag on the economy and reduces the flow of capital to productive and risky enterprises.
Also countries with far more generous welfare programs have less issues with structural unemployment. I strongly suspect the failure is the underfunded schooling system that is maladapted to the low income urban poor, where the most resources should be targeted. A huge wealth of human capital is left to rot in the US ghettos.

Are you kidding me? Families have migrated to where the work (food) was for thousands of years and in this day and age it happens even faster. Heck in America even illegal aliens eventually get entire families to move to where the work is. Even if the family is separated by thousands of miles poor uneducated people send billions of dollars back home (remittances) to family members in need every year, so that argument holds no water. It's called Western Union. People, even working poor people do depend and sustain with a strong family unit even when there is no government assisstance.

In America we throw a bunch on money into education and that alone hasn't repaired anything in certain areas. It's a much bigger problem than money and the fact that we are in such huge debt means we really don't have enough money.

[dorlomin]

Families have migrated to where the work (food) was for thousands of years and in this day and age it happens even faster.

Wow do you not understand the modern world.

You think that sisters and aunts and cousins all have to move if someone gets a job as an accountant in another city?

[wildbourgman]

Families have migrated to where the work (food) was for thousands of years and in this day and age it happens even faster.

Wow do you not understand the modern world.

You think that sisters and aunts and cousins all have to move if someone gets a job as an accountant in another city?

You think that it's modern to believe that they actually have to move together in order to have a strong family, a family that takes care of one another in times of need? Facebook! Western Union! Even email!

You have heard that the internet can be used for more than online discussions ? People can even transfer funds from the sisters checking account to a cousin in need with no need for welfare in that operation.

[wildbourgman]

Dorlomin, let me get this right are you saying we need a welfare state, because that helps people move away from thier family in order to find work?

[dorlomin]

Dorlomin, let me get this right are you saying we need a welfare state, because

lol.

[wildbourgman]

Dorlomin, let me get this right are you saying we need a welfare state, because

lol.

Is that an answer?

[dorlomin]

Is that an answer?

No, its me laughing at your inability to grasp the fact we no longer live in a world where entire families must move with anyone who has a new job. Your hatred for the poor is justified by thinking we all live in plains wagons with entire family units having to be together.

Yet many here will have stories of how they moved from where they were born without a whole family in tow.

You are lost and confused in a modern world.

[wildbourgman]

Is that an answer?

No, its me laughing at your inability to grasp the fact we no longer live in a world where entire families must move with anyone who has a new job. Your hatred for the poor is justified by thinking we all live in plains wagons with entire family units having to be together.

Yet many here will have stories of how they moved from where they were born without a whole family in tow.

You are lost and confused in a modern world.

Dorlomin, I said just the opposite. Here I'll make it easy for you. Re-read the quote pasted below. Here is my comment in a nutshell. In the modern age, with modern technology you can still have a strong family unit without living near your family. Now in certain situations such as illegal imigrants in the United State they do eventually bring their extended family to where the jobs are. If you don't know that or believe that your are willfully ignorant of the facts. I have no problem with poor people, I do have a problem trapping them in poverty and the people who's policies trap the poor in poverty are elitist snobs that have no real compassion.

You think that it's modern to believe that they actually have to move together in order to have a strong family, a family that takes care of one another in times of need? Facebook! Western Union! Even email!

You have heard that the internet can be used for more than online discussions ? People can even transfer funds from the sisters checking account to a cousin in need with no need for welfare in that operation.

[dorlomin]

You have heard that the internet can be used for more than online discussions ?

When you can email a crash pad when you are sofa surfing or email help when you are in cruches get back to me.

Otherwise your point is vacuous.

[wildbourgman]

You have heard that the internet can be used for more than online discussions ?

When you can email a crash pad when you are sofa surfing or email help when you are in cruches get back to me.

Otherwise your point is vacuous.

It seemed like you said that welfare is good because it enhances "geographical mobility of the work force" and that in the modern world you can't depend on the family as you could in the past. I think that's an old fashioned elitist way of thinking.

If that's not what you said then be clear and make your point.

[dorlomin]

[I think that's an old fashioned elitist way of thinking.

Elitist?

Jesus you are talking nonsense.

[wildbourgman]

[I think that's an old fashioned elitist way of thinking.

Elitist?

Jesus you are talking nonsense.

Make your point, and quit slow playing.

[ralfy]

Governments, like households, the military, and businesses, have as a primary purpose their continued existence. They will help the other groups only if it is in their best interest to do so.

Thus, governments will support initiatives to increase life expectancy rates, etc., because that allows for greater prosperity, and thus more income for households and more profits for businesses, which in turn means more tax revenues for governments. The same principle applies to households, the military, and others.

But when problems take place, then mutual support weakens. In this case, we have a country with large amounts of credit, which in turn was used to increase military spending needed to protect the petrodollar, and that spending may be connected to large prison systems, increased surveillance, and more spending for police and intelligence networks.

The credit was also used to foster consumer spending and the rise of a middle class, in turn leading to preferences for white collar jobs, increased debt and spending, etc.

As large amounts of credit lead to financial crisis, and in turn economic problems such as unemployment, bankruptcy, etc., and coupled with the effects of oil supply issues and global warming, then police and military organizations may become more alarmed, if not paranoid. This may lead to more "collateral damage" outside the country as well as more incidences of police brutality, fines, jailing or imprisonment, etc.

[wildbourgman]

Ralfy, can you make a clear point out of all that. I mean it, really, take me somewhere and quit beating around the bush brother!

[joesnufy]

If Eric Garner's killer can't be indicted, what cop possibly could? It's time to fix grand juries

If you are an ordinary citizen being investigated for a crime by an American grand jury, there is a 99.993% chance you’ll be indicted. Yet if you’re a police officer, that chance falls to effectively nil.

I have read elsewhere that once you are indited you have a 99% chance of conviction. What other countries can beat that? North Korea?

I'm going to repost this. I noticed it's gotten more attention with all the recent publicity around grand juries:

Police officer who killed 17 year old armed with a WII REMOTE will not face charges:

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2014/07/17/n ... ontroller/

http://www.deathandtaxesmag.com/224897/ ... -anything/

A grand jury in Euharlee, Georgia has decided not to indict Cpl. Beth Gatny in the shooting death of Christopher Roupe. Roupe was a member of his school’s ROTC and was hoping to join the military after graduation.

On February 14th, Valentine’s Day, Gatny and some other officers knocked on the door of the mobile home where Roupe lived, in order to serve his father with a warrant for violating his probation. Gatny said she heard what she “believed to be a firearm” before the door opened, drew her pistol at Christopher and shot, believing the Wii controller in his hand was a gun.

Here's the best part:

Although a previous grand jury found that Gatny’s use of force was unauthorized and that she should be subject to further prosecution, the new one decided that she should not be charged with either involuntary manslaughter or reckless conduct.

So we just summon a new grand jury when the previous one returns a recommendation we don't like?

The reason your Wii story has not gotten attention is because the family lied about the entire incident trying to get money from the city. The young man (17YO 2 or 3 time highschool sophmore) pointed a gun at the officer when he opened the door, he thought it was a buddy of his and was going to play a prank on him. The family also lied about his JROTC status and gave the news a 3 year old picture in uniform to stir the pot. That young man was in JROTC at another school when he was 14 for 2 or 3 months, he was kicked out of the program because he wouldn't participate in the events and did not wear the uniform when required. The news loves to run only one side of the story. Case in point, showing an old picture of a young man in a uniform he hadn't worn for 3 years. Additionally, the news didn't tell you the true story about the shooting the officer was involved in several years ago. They only told you that he was reaching for a back pack (partially true). The official report including what was caught on the dash cam shows the suspects, all reported as armed not complying with her orders to get on the ground. Finally 2 did what they were suppose to and the third began walking towards her, bladed his body and reached behind his back towards his waistband. Later after he was interviewed he stated he was reaching to take his back pack off, I don't know who takes off a back pack like that but if I'm looking down the barrel of a gun and being told to do something..... I think I might listen. Look at the evidence on euharleepoliceshooting(dot)com, there is also a link to the facebook page there with the audio from the back up officers that night and the subsequent interview with the father that prove the family lied.

[ralfy]

The government, businesses, the military, and households are all dependent on increased borrowing and spending, and they will support each other to ensure that.

When increased borrowing and spending leads to financial crisis, then economic problems worsen. That not only weakens a government that already has a powerful police and surveillance system, it also makes them more paranoid, if not aggressive, if only to justify amounts spent on police and military organizations.

The result is increased propensity not only to threaten other countries (especially those that have natural resources but also governments that want to move away from the U.S. dollar) but also to threaten its own local population: more fines, shoot and ask questions later, arrests for all sorts of violations, etc.

[wildbourgman]

Ralfy, now was that so hard?

I think that more and more I am in agreement with your comment and I don't like that at all. I don't think things have to be that way, but it certainly looks like it is that way.

[dissident]

http://www.pri.org/stories/2013-12-03/i ... ts-history

"The nation was in shock. This does not happen in our country," said Thora Arnorsdottir, news editor at RUV, the Icelandic National Broadcasting Service.

She was referring to a 59-year old man who was shot by police on Monday. The man, who started shooting at police when they entered his building, had a history of mental illness.

Iceland would be dead from shock if the sort of gross abuse of human rights by police that is routine in the USA occurred there. The above incident is perfectly justifiable but it is quite interesting that in the previous such cases (which there must have been since this scenario is not singular) they managed to get through it without a killing.

[wildbourgman]

I think Iceland would be in shock about alot of things in the United States. They would be even more shocked if they could understand what was being said by most people in America, but I don't think many in Iceland speak Spanish.