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Economics and Suicides

Discussions about the economic and financial ramifications of PEAK OIL

Re: Economics and Suicides

Unread postby Cog » Sat 01 Apr 2017, 17:13:46

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Re: Economics and Suicides

Unread postby onlooker » Sat 01 Apr 2017, 17:26:43

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Re: Economics and Suicides

Unread postby Ibon » Sat 01 Apr 2017, 18:05:49

pstarr wrote:"The early saplings of a generation with a spine and integrity is emerging. Take heart all, the times they are changing and a generation with nothing to lose is on the rise."

So true Ibon. Real rebellion doesn't wear false flags and spout slogans. The young here in the US today have been sold a bill of goods.They don't vote or participate because they know it doesn't count. The economic trajectory is down for them.

They are nothing like the old white Tea Party types believe they have taken control of the US government. Laughable. The Freedom Caucus is a complete joke. Those idiots are owned by the US Chamber of Commerce and Goldman Sachs just like the rest of the Repubs, Dems and media. The young don't buy it. They are quietly formenting revolution, not as a theory or plan or group think, but just plain out cynicism. It will be a simple spark that will set it off. Trust me. We won't even see it coming.


I resonated with your whole post except for the last line. This idea of an uprising I think is a legacy of your and my generation thinking of a social movement uprising the way we remember this back in the 60's / 70's. If I observe my millennial daughters and their friends and all the young millennials who pass through our project (many as volunteers) I think they are doing exactly what Hawkcreek and others here are advocating, simply choosing to not feed the beast.

Back in the 60's the beast was still robust, what followed the 60's and 70's was Reagan and as much as all the aging hippies hated him most capitulated and went full speed down the Yuppie highway that followed.

This time around there is not that wealth to distract the masses, there is instead this growing disparity of wealth. As you said Pstarr the young are disengaging from the process. They are rejecting the bill of goods as sick and increasingly irrelevant. The status quo is a sick puppy and you don't rise up and make a revolution against a paradigm that is dying. You move on and create something from within your own communities and tribal resources. This is what the young will continue to do. I do not see a major protest shit hitting the fan social movement coming up as you suggested in the last line of your post. I might be wrong, but when your adversary is already sick and dying you go out and start creating other arrangements, there is not this strong and resilient power structure to rebel or protest against. Treating the elite as irrelevant is actually a far more potent form of protest IMO.

Stop feeding the beast really does represent the sentiment that I primarily hear and feel coming from the emerging young generation.
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Re: Economics and Suicides

Unread postby Ibon » Sat 01 Apr 2017, 18:12:30

baha wrote:
I realized that the PTB wanted to suck the life out of me and give me nothing in return so by divorcing myself from it I have taken control and they have lost it. I watch the talking heads talk about banks failing and taxes rising and I just grin.

I am hoping to enter into poverty in the next few years and totally eliminate my tax burden :)


Notice everyone how this sentiment does not really have a party affiliation.
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Re: Economics and Suicides

Unread postby onlooker » Sat 01 Apr 2017, 18:19:46

Agreed, the status quo system is dying of its own accord. It is becoming evident. Disengaging - not feeding the beast is weakening it more. However , danger exists in that like a wounded animal, our elite power brokers can become dangerously desperate at the prospect of losing priviledge/power and lash out with the instruments of force which the govt. monopolizes
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Re: Economics and Suicides

Unread postby Hawkcreek » Sat 01 Apr 2017, 18:43:56

pstarr wrote:We should be very scared. The old white guys are about to take to the street.

I may be 70, but I can still put 10 out of 10 into the black at 500 yards.
All I need is some young person to carry my rifle and 200 rounds. :-D :)
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Re: Economics and Suicides

Unread postby shortonoil » Sat 01 Apr 2017, 22:00:38

I may be 70, but I can still put 10 out of 10 into the black at 500 yards.
All I need is some young person to carry my rifle and 200 rounds.


Find a sword bearer, and we'll go together. I just brought down the coye dog that was eating my cats at 200 yards. The rest of the pack left, and haven't been back! As they say shoot one than the rest will take notice!
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Re: Economics and Suicides

Unread postby Ibon » Sun 02 Apr 2017, 07:47:17

baha wrote:
So here I am spoiled as shit and thumbing my nose at 'the man'. There is a great advantage to being able to tell him to F*** off.


Nice post. I could share similar stories. I am going to point out upstream of this thread Cog's simple post advising any young person to stay out of debt and live frugally.

It is exactly when you live without debt and without being burdened by car loans and house loans that you are unchained and you can then negotiate with an employer from a position of strength.

As Baha's post demonstrates he was willing to take the consequences and leave. Imagine how difficult this is if you are stuck with debt and feeling imprisoned and beholden to your employer because of monthly payments. It is a prison, a golden one for many who are rich in consumption but enslaved.

We know this and are preaching a bit to the choir here but it is important to reinforce this lesson.
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Re: Economics and Suicides

Unread postby SeaGypsy » Sun 02 Apr 2017, 07:59:23

The drug test regimes are flipping stupid, about cultural bias not anything real about productivity or safety. When I worked in nursing there were no drug tests, still aren't- but drugs were rife, including surgeons on cocaine or meths, nurses on stolen pharmaceuticals- in charge of life & death decisions every day. As a truck driver- most companies have random testing, plus the police & roads authority have both random & targeted testing- supposedly all about safety- but they only test for THC & meths- despite there being no solid of either being key inebriants in crashes- with zero tolerance. They don't test for valium, opiates, cocaine, SSRIs, which are proven to cause dangerous impairment.

(I used to smoke a lot of herb, my drug of choice, but these days I don't, do any drugs except a beer or two. I like my job too much to blow it over herb. Also I find once it is all out of my system I don't enjoy it- the first hour or so is great, but the 3 days hangover effect is not.)

Ibon- my mother is pushing me to 'buy' a house- (ie-she pays deposit & I pay a loan- here that's $300,000+) I'm not interested & she can't understand why. I basically live out of my car, camp on the fringes of the city, or on a friend's farm, or stay with friends or at my wife & kid's home- never stay 2 consecutive nights anywhere. I love it. I can be in a tent in the forest at 6am, at work on the edge of the city at 7am, drive a truck around until 2-3pm, go to a city gym on the beach & swim, spa, sauna, weights, cardio routine done by time peak hour is over, go have dinner with my kids & be back out in the bush or camped on the beach by 9-10pm. I have no debts. I can save half my wage easily & still do right by my kids. I don't care if people think I'm mad, just explaining to mother that I think most people are is, well, complicated.
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Re: Economics and Suicides

Unread postby Ibon » Sun 02 Apr 2017, 11:31:54

SeaGypsy wrote: I don't care if people think I'm mad, just explaining to mother that I think most people are is, well, complicated.


:)

Well, for those of you out there contemplating how to navigate the future SeaGypsy is a fellow who thrives in the cracks between everyone else's consensus reality.

As I mentioned in another post I am seeing more and more millennials choosing this strategy to varying degrees.
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Re: Economics and Suicides

Unread postby Hawkcreek » Sun 02 Apr 2017, 11:43:14

I smoked pot almost every day when I was in Vietnam. Then I self-medicated with various substances for the next 40 some years, until I retired.
Now I don't do any of that, partially for medical reasons, but mainly because I just don't feel the need.
Hah, wonder if drug use could possibly be related to the stress of working? :-D
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Re: Economics and Suicides

Unread postby Outcast_Searcher » Sun 02 Apr 2017, 14:00:56

Cog wrote:If there is any advice I could give a younger guy is to take on minimal debt, live below your means, save money, and have another marketable skill besides the one you work in. You can ride out a lot of bad situations if you do this.

This is very powerful. One of the biggest benefits (and I know because I lived this way from the start -- lucky me, brought up by depression era parents) is that once a simple lifestyle is normal, there is little to no feeling of sacrifice or self deprivation with "doing without". It's just normal.

I remember when reading "The Millionaire Next Door", one example was that the "frugal" brother was content with a 4 year old Honda Accord, while his high-living brother had (as I recall) three expensive luxury cars, like a BMW Seven Series "to impress clients".

I remember thinking: A 4 year old Honda Accord -- that's as good as it gets! (I was driving a 14 year old Toyota Celica, utilizing plenty of coat hangers, duct tape, patience, and lots of visits to the mechanic, but it still beat car payments). I didn't want to impress anyone, just reliably get from point A to point B.
Given the track record of the perma-doomer blogs, I wouldn't bet a fast crash doomer's money on their predictions.
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Re: Economics and Suicides

Unread postby evilgenius » Sun 02 Apr 2017, 14:18:46

The thing I was talking about, I called it the need to control, isn't just reserved for old white guys. I think it permeates us all. We can recognize it, and take steps to act in other ways, but we can't really shed it. It's insidious. If you think you are free from it, then you will find it intertwined in your alternative ways, as you arrange to do as you please.

The ability to achieve intimacy with life, to engage others in a manner where you know them and can be known by them, requires involvement. It takes the faith to be able to lose, and still trust that it is for the better. The faith to say to what you apprehend as the wrong thing happening in your life that you aren't certain it is wrong. That you don't know right from wrong, not really, because all you really know is centered on yourself. That's the beginning of finding out why you do what you do, and why the things that bind you hold such power over you. When you come to that you will see how your need to control, to make right be right by virtue of how it relates to you, has been at work forming who you are.

This is what 'consider the lilies of the field' is really all about. How 'taking no thought for tomorrow' really works. It doesn't mean you can't have things. The universe isn't asking you to become a hermit and wear a hair shirt. It is asking you to seek the kingdom of heaven (a different centering) first, though, and its righteousness, and then all of those other things will be added unto you.
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Re: Economics and Suicides

Unread postby SeaGypsy » Sun 02 Apr 2017, 17:47:25

baha wrote:This is the bottom up approach...I did what SG does for while and loved it. I only gave it up after I crafted a plan to re-enter the workplace without allowing the hooks to be set. I lived in my RV for the first year as a solar installer and saved money. I bought a house with a 100% VA loan and then paid it off as fast as possible. I drove an antique car to avoid payments. I tackled a new industry partly because I got to call the shots.
When my PV array is done I may focus on making Duke Power miserable :) I see great opportunities there after I remove my dependence.


I lived in a motorhome for 3 years, working in outback aboriginal communities as an art centre/ gallery manager. I've probably lived in tents for about 12 years all up, houseboats & yachts for 5 years, bush shacks on friend's properties for another 10 years. Maybe 5 years paying rent like a 'normal person'- all while hooked up with women who required 'normalcy'.

Working in the city, driving 200km a day from one side to the other & back, my 'normal' is restored by camping out at the end of the day. The last year or so is the first time I've managed to handle working in a big city yet hold onto what I call sanity. The job I'm in now has 6 weeks paid flexible leave a year, so I'm getting to the point of considering travel plans again.
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Re: Economics and Suicides

Unread postby SeaGypsy » Mon 03 Apr 2017, 06:27:47

I had a few partners who gypsied with me, the longest was 7 years. I've been married nearly 10 years, we are coparenting & still close, just cannot live together. I'm way too busy for another relationship, & I'm Asianised so in 10 years when the current two are grown up I may consider doing it all again. I will be 60. One of my close friends is 72, with a 32 yo partner & 4 year old son.
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