[Cynus]

I just finished it. I thought it was OK. I think Kunstler intentionally set it in the type of place he sees as most promising in the future. He could have set it in a city if he had wanted to write a pitch black and hopeless novel, but he wanted the novel to have a hopeful tone. He does allude to many horrors taking place in the country and he sets it after most of the nightmares such as a huge die off have already taken place. If the novel was much longer he could have walked us through the entire process, but again I think he was trying to write a book about new beginnings. Strangely, the die off was from disease, not starvation. I never quite understood his reasons for the electricity being off most of the time, I don't think it was set post peak-coal or peak natural gas. Perhaps he thought that the economic collapse from peak oil took out the ability to fund electricity generation. Also odd was that it was terrorism that caused the economic collapse, not peak oil itself.

[Revi]

The novel was set about 20 years post peak. Twenty years post peak will be a strange time, but things will have settled out a bit. I think Kunstler is right, and it will be a slow fuzz out. We'll have a harder and harder time keeping the lights on, keeping the roads maintained, and keeping our cars running.

The hunger will come soon. Worldwide surpluses are gone now. In the next 10 years they won't be refilled.

Kunstler's world is maybe a bit optimistic, but it is really engaging. I am hoping for a sequel.

[Tucker]

I just checked on getting World Made by Hand from our library. There are none available and 16 holds on it. I guess I will have to help Kunstler get closer to the bank.

...The other thing that really struck me was his descriptions of specific places in cities. He keeps mentioning places where I have recently been to. ...This book has simply hit too close to home, and now I'm having trouble sleeping at night.

I have the exact same problem with Patriots by James Wesley, Rawles. It takes place in the rural part of Northern Idaho where I grew up and includes the town I lived in from birth. His descriptions of the area are spot on so he has spent a lot of time there. The book does have lots of prep ideas but not necessarily peak oil related.

[Revi]

A couple of my friends read World Made by Hand, and liked it a lot. I think it takes this kind of thing to get peak oil into the zeitgeist. We aren't really aware of things until it enters the popular conciousness. There are a lot of people who don't know about peak oil still. They don't really have to know everything, but a book like this gets it out there a little more.

Most people can't understand what's going on still, but it's a start.

[Tucker]

Just fyi for all you Portlander's. Kunstler will be at Powell's in Beaverton, Oregon on April 21st at 7pm.

http://www.powells.com/biblio/9781135844325

Cool beans!

[patience]

Thanks Pheba. No point in wasting my time with World Made By Hand. Authors lose me instantly the first time they try to float some bogus idea in a field that I know about. Big mistake. They lose knowledgeable people and misinform the rest.

[careinke]

I thought the book was a fun read. It was after all, fiction.

Cliff (Start a rEVOLution, grow a garden)

[TheDude]

Just fyi for all you Portlander's. Kunstler will be at Powell's in Beaverton, Oregon on April 21st at 7pm.

http://www.powells.com/biblio/9781135844325

Cool beans!

Cool. I'll shove a copy of our Suggestions thread in his face!



Maybe we could use the occasion for a po.com Stumptown "Meet," as it's termed in popular depictions of the Mafia.

Like Pheba I was a bit let down by WMBH. It's what British SF author Brian Aldiss termed a "cosy catastrophe," where the world comes to an end and the protagonist has a rollicking good adventure in the ruins. He lays in plenty of detail - perhaps too much, does it really advance the plot or build character to know that the windows in Robert's house still work perfectly? I was dismayed by the band of religious zealots at first as well - these are your antagonists? Not exactly subtle, but as the book progressed I came to enjoy it more. The ending was quite an anti-climax though, I couldn't suspend my disbelief an iota there. The mayor and minister head off totally unarmed into the den of [s]The Toecutter[/s] [s]Humoungous[/s] Wayne Karp to serve a warrant for his arrest - and they're surprised at being captured when he declines the invite? Made less than no sense. Was also puzzled by the quasi-magical touch of Karp meeting his end in precisely the same fashion as Minor - so this is a fantasy novel? Will he write about LOTR in Clusterfuck now?

So overall, down on my list of doomer porn. Definitely no Road, or even a Postman or Alas, Babylon or Warday, even though Jim's prose isn't as stiff as Pat Frank's. It was way better than Lights Out, which is only available online for a reason, or Resurrection Day, which bored me, or Dies the Fire, which was so contrived I tossed it aside.

Surprised that he wrote more about Old Time fiddling than peak oil, too. Or that jihad bombing - for all we know that could've been a rumour or MSM fabrication that was accepted as fact (c.f. Jericho, where nukes blow up various US cities). The murkiness of information, or the random bursts of electricity, are the type of details I did enjoy.

[ShinyOldLady]

Just finished World Made by Hand a couple of days ago, and was a bit letdown. Most of it was pretty believable, but I didn't think he needed to add the paranormal/supernatural stuff about the Hive Queen, disappearing Brother Jobe, magically appearing parallel wounds in the Motorhead king. He seemed to have quite a few loose ends.

Maybe I'm too jaded from reading science fiction all my life. Still one of my favorite post-armageddon books, rarely mentioned by anyone is "Gate into Women's Country," by Sheri S. Tepper. It's got your crazy religious nuts, realistic and intelligent responses to limited resources, aptly warlike groups of men, etc. Anyone read it?

[Tucker]

Just fyi for all you Portlander's. Kunstler will be at Powell's in Beaverton, Oregon on April 21st at 7pm.

Maybe we could use the occasion for a po.com Stumptown "Meet," as it's termed in popular depictions of the Mafia..

Well, you wouldn't have seen me at the event.

I left work early to attend and asked the lady at Powell's what the format would be since I've never been to a book signing before. She said he would be reading and answering questions and then sign. Since I knew I couldn't stay that long, I asked if it might be possible to get him to sign The Long Emergency and WMBH before the event. She said the authors are very gracious and referred me to Miles who was setting up the event.

I found Miles and Kuntsler was there too. I patiently waited for a break in the conversation between Kuntlser and a lady that was there. The lady looked up and smiled at me and was giving me an opportunity to talk. Kuntsler immediately started talking to her again, grabs her arm, and guides her in turning her and his back on me.

Ok. I take the hint. I walk out without buying the book and told the Powell's people what I thought about their guest. Maybe I was being rude for wanting to talk to him outside the event?*

*[sub]More likely, Kuntsler was being an arrogant ass. [/sub]

[TheDude]

Just fyi for all you Portlander's. Kunstler will be at Powell's in Beaverton, Oregon on April 21st at 7pm.

Maybe we could use the occasion for a po.com Stumptown "Meet," as it's termed in popular depictions of the Mafia..

Well, you wouldn't have seen me at the event.

I left work early to attend and asked the lady at Powell's what the format would be since I've never been to a book signing before. She said he would be reading and answering questions and then sign. Since I knew I couldn't stay that long, I asked if it might be possible to get him to sign The Long Emergency and WMBH before the event. She said the authors are very gracious and referred me to Miles who was setting up the event.

I found Miles and Kuntsler was there too. I patiently waited for a break in the conversation between Kuntlser and a lady that was there. The lady looked up and smiled at me and was giving me an opportunity to talk. Kuntsler immediately started talking to her again, grabs her arm, and guides her in turning her and his back on me.

Ok. I take the hint. I walk out without buying the book and told the Powell's people what I thought about their guest. Maybe I was being rude for wanting to talk to him outside the event?*

*[sub]More likely, Kuntsler was being an arrogant ass. [/sub]

Maybe he was trying to get laid?

You need to be more direct. As he advised during the talk, the future won't be kind to crybabies. His term. "HEY CLUSTERFUCKER! YOU'RE NOT GOING ANYWHERE!" You could smack him in his chrome dome to get his attention. Rude? The guy said Shit and Fuck into the PA a couple times.

[Tucker]

Maybe he was trying to get laid?

You need to be more direct. As he advised during the talk, the future won't be kind to crybabies. His term. "HEY CLUSTERFUCKER! YOU'RE NOT GOING ANYWHERE!" You could smack him in his chrome dome to get his attention. Rude? The guy said Shit and Fuck into the PA a couple times.

The only way I couldn't have been more direct would have been to say "don't turn your back on me! I bought your books and I want them signed now."

Oh well. I'm glad that you went. I would have loved to talk to you! Did he answer any of your questions or address the suggestions?

[TheDude]

Maybe he was trying to get laid?

You need to be more direct. As he advised during the talk, the future won't be kind to crybabies. His term. "HEY CLUSTERFUCKER! YOU'RE NOT GOING ANYWHERE!" You could smack him in his chrome dome to get his attention. Rude? The guy said Shit and Fuck into the PA a couple times.

The only way I couldn't have been more direct would have been to say "don't turn your back on me! I bought your books and I want them signed now."

Oh well. I'm glad that you went. I would have loved to talk to you! Did he answer any of your questions or address the suggestions?

He took a few queries, mine was whether he thought the govment would ever get their act together to revitalize our rail system. "Don't count on it" I think sums up his reply, seeing how great a job they've done with NOLA, which is my feeling too unfortunately. Also that you can't count on the Left to do any better job than the Right. Just thought of a good analogy for partisan politics: Forget Wings, we've evolved into a Moa!

Sorry you got the snub. Striking thing about the crowd was the lack of young bucks. Everyone looked late 30s+. I know we have a few high schoolers on the board, wonder what the overall PO demo is?

[mgibbons19]

{thread merged by emersonbiggins}

Hello all,

I offered to review Kunstler's new book for my blog. It is posted here:

World Made by Hand

And I'll post the text if anybody is interested in discussing it.

Kunstler's World Made by Hand

Kunstler's new book is an interesting read in several ways. As a piece of dystopian fiction, it certainly stands on its own two feet. The book opens in an upstate New York town after the collapse of modern society. In its rurality, the slow pace of life almost reads like a Wendell Berry of the future. Through the book we find however that it is neither necessarily peaceful, nor idyllic. Through the story our protagonist is drawn out of the shell of his former life and into a leadership position pulling his reluctant community together. This eventually sets him up for the dominant conflict of the book. The main antagonist is the group of remnant bikers living out by the dump/junkyard, who make their living scavenging useful bits and pieces from the garbage of the 20th century. The book certainly has a plot line and drive, and takes the reader through some disturbing visions as it wends it way toward the end.

As a piece of peak oil literature (for lack of a better term) it is quite interesting. The peak oil crowd wastes a lot of energy, and sacrifices some credibility, debating when the peak is/was/will be, trumpeting that every drop in production proves their case. Also among the peakers is a concurrent discussion of what the current economic climate portends. These include Kunstler who holds forth on his blog that as oil peaks economic activity also will peak, and the result will be a permanent contraction. Whether this is true or not, only future history will say for sure. Further, Kunstler also made this and all the other associated arguments for what peak will imply as we roll over the top in The Long Emergency. Instead, Kunstler (wisely) sets this piece of fiction far enough into the future, that such speculation surrounding the peak itself isn't really meaningful. It is clearly meant to be a fictional exploration, and I will focus here on some of the deeper implications I read into Kunstler's work.

Of interest is the political organization Kunstler provides. It is positively medieval, made up mostly of small chiefdoms with no official organization left in place, except for the one mad official in Albany who is attempting to hold the government together with his typewriter. Instead we are faced with the biker chiefdom, the capitalized farmer's peasantry, the religious organization of brother Job, and the monopolized mobster trading post down the river in Albany. What is implied that the religious leader is named Job and the last remnant governmental official is both mad and impotent?

Economics and labor in an energy scarce environment are dealt with as well. The protagonist is a carpenter and a musician, who used to be a computer professional. He barters his work to meet his needs, as do others in town. As life gets more difficult, more of the characters join up with the different factions around town. What trade is done with money is done with precious metal coins. These became valuable when the dollar was hyperinflated to oblivion – not surprising if one is familiar with the peak oil and associated literature. Production and trade are intensely local. Long distance trade is by barge shipping only 30 miles down the river. Many/most residents have gardens and very many of them are employed in the labor of agriculture.

The capitalized farmer is one of the more pleasant prospects to join with, and represents an interesting character himself. He runs a profitable little enterprise, providing food and shelter for his laborers. The laborers bring their families and move onto his place. It is feudal, but his is a generous reign. Importantly, he was 'peak aware' before the calamities hit and prepared for life after oil. Thus he was well capitalized, had important hand tools, and had been stocking up on heirloom seeds and old fashioned farming methods. When the calamities hit, his was one of the few places with excess capacity and the ability to help people.

The religious zealot is more sensible than I would have expected Kunstler to portray him. His followers are clean cut and helpful, but as we find out later, they are not afraid of violence when necessary. The religious group has traveled far, escaping persecution and trouble in the south, then in the DC area, and finally finding peace in upstate New York. Sort of a Mormon migration eastwards if you will. They take over the abandoned high school and start converting it to their quarters. Their numbers add a critical mass to the town which had been drifting aimlessly prior to the start of the novel. While the religious group is sensible and helpful, they are not above pure weirdness. This is illustrated by their building essentially a beehive for their queen bee oracle who appears to have some sort of supernatural powers. I have not figured out yet what the she means in the novel.

The criminal element is represented by the biker crowd out at the junkyard. In the novel they are scavenging off the remnants of the 20th century economically. They would appear to stand in for the less savory elements of modern society. First, they have taken over the junkyard/dump by simply by force. There is some discussion that the junkyard/dump should be a resource for all, but they stepped up and monopolized it first. Second, they are entertained by the most crass forms of public entertainment. In the absence of the vulgarity of TV, this crowd improvises, creating its own low-brow entertainment.

In the sociopolitical vacuum slowly being filled by these feudal peasants, religious compounds, and tribal warlords, our protagonist is (accidentally) instrumental in rebuilding the community that is the optimal solution to the problem of oil peaking. Our protagonist finally leaves his sadness for the past behind him, and takes over the leadership role forced upon him. He is instrumental in setting up peaceful relationships between the town and the farm, as well as the religious group. He is also key in eradicating the power base of the criminal element at the junkyard, removing their threat to the town. Personally, he also accepts the family responsibilities thrust upon him in the novel.

The novel thus resolves the central conflict and shows a path forward. Kunstler does not sugar coat the difficulties that his vision suggests. People die for lack of medical care, protective city, state, and federal security are non-existent. The lack of easy travel and communication that such a scenario forces on the town is extreme in its isolation. At the same time, by rebuilding communities, focusing on local production and trade, and building relationships with our neighboring communities, it seems Kunstler is suggesting that there is a way to deal effectively with the problem of energy scarcity.

[mgibbons19]

Thanks for moving it to the appropriate place.

[emersonbiggins]

We already have a thread for reviews of World made by hand.

the link gives this error:
The topic or post you requested does not exist

I merged the old thread into the new, b/c of the more descriptive title; therefore, the old one doesn't exist anymore.

[Jenab6]

Good day from Pheba, from the farm:
Sorry folks, but I did not like this book. I breezed through this short novel in just one evening. I found the writing simple. The descriptions were pat and seemed like they were copied from a "writing for Dummies" book.
For starters, having "terrorists" nuke two American cities fits right into chapter 3 of Kunstler's "Long Emergency". The last thing this country needs is more fear mongering "evildoers", "terrorists" propaganda being spoon-fed to them through shoddy fantasy novels like "World Made By Hand".
I easily saw that Kunstler envisioned himself in the role of the town mayor. Our hero defeats the bad guys, saves a woman and child from a burning building, helps the religious right set up camp, and then helps install running water in the town. What next? Raising the dead? walking on water?
Everybody gets along so beautifully. Life is perfect. Food is perfect.
Our hero has sex with a lusty 47 year old every week. And, being the perfect hero figure, he only does this because he feels sorry for her. Her husband, yes she is married, is not up to the task.
What a bunch of silly nonsense.
Of course, later on, he ends up with a perfect new family. The woman he saved from the burning building moves in with him.
Even the two bad guy groups in the book, the trailer trash truck drivers, and the religious fanatics, are good guys in disguise.
This is the most unrealistic cornucopian dream like post apocalyptic fantasy I have ever read.
How wonderful that both the small town dentist and the doctor survived the combined effects of Peak Oil, a killer virus, nuclear explosions, and assorted other hardships.
"World Made By Hand" is Kunstler's personal dream vision of his perfect world.
This is not the best peak oil book I have ever read. This is not even a good novel. Mercifully, "World Made By Hand" is short. That is the only good thing I can say about it.
My husband could not finish the book. He had to put it down.
We are farmers, and most of his assertions about growing food were not accurate and some were just plain silly.
I paid $24.95 for the book. Fortunately I purchased it from a co-op that supports anti-war efforts, including a peace march this weekend. Unfortunately I could have bought a much better book for 24.95. I reccomend getting this drivel from the library if you really want to zip through it.
Pheba.

Thanks for saving me that much money. I didn't have a high opinion of Kunstler from reading The Long Emergency. I have plenty of fantasy already, mostly written by people who make their living writing fantasy and have earned literary recognition thereby: George R.R. Martin, Robin Hobb, Katharine Kerr, Raymond E. Feist, Robert Jordan, etc. I've quit buying books, unless I hear that something is really special, because I already have 1700 novels, and that's more than I'll probably read in the remainder of my lifetime.

[BigTex]

Good day from Pheba, from the farm:
Sorry folks, but I did not like this book. I breezed through this short novel in just one evening. I found the writing simple. The descriptions were pat and seemed like they were copied from a "writing for Dummies" book.
For starters, having "terrorists" nuke two American cities fits right into chapter 3 of Kunstler's "Long Emergency". The last thing this country needs is more fear mongering "evildoers", "terrorists" propaganda being spoon-fed to them through shoddy fantasy novels like "World Made By Hand".
I easily saw that Kunstler envisioned himself in the role of the town mayor. Our hero defeats the bad guys, saves a woman and child from a burning building, helps the religious right set up camp, and then helps install running water in the town. What next? Raising the dead? walking on water?
Everybody gets along so beautifully. Life is perfect. Food is perfect.
Our hero has sex with a lusty 47 year old every week. And, being the perfect hero figure, he only does this because he feels sorry for her. Her husband, yes she is married, is not up to the task.
What a bunch of silly nonsense.
Of course, later on, he ends up with a perfect new family. The woman he saved from the burning building moves in with him.
Even the two bad guy groups in the book, the trailer trash truck drivers, and the religious fanatics, are good guys in disguise.
This is the most unrealistic cornucopian dream like post apocalyptic fantasy I have ever read.
How wonderful that both the small town dentist and the doctor survived the combined effects of Peak Oil, a killer virus, nuclear explosions, and assorted other hardships.
"World Made By Hand" is Kunstler's personal dream vision of his perfect world.
This is not the best peak oil book I have ever read. This is not even a good novel. Mercifully, "World Made By Hand" is short. That is the only good thing I can say about it.
My husband could not finish the book. He had to put it down.
We are farmers, and most of his assertions about growing food were not accurate and some were just plain silly.
I paid $24.95 for the book. Fortunately I purchased it from a co-op that supports anti-war efforts, including a peace march this weekend. Unfortunately I could have bought a much better book for 24.95. I reccomend getting this drivel from the library if you really want to zip through it.
Pheba.

Thanks for saving me that much money. I didn't have a high opinion of Kunstler from reading The Long Emergency. I have plenty of fantasy already, mostly written by people who make their living writing fantasy and have earned literary recognition thereby: George R.R. Martin, Robin Hobb, Katharine Kerr, Raymond E. Feist, Robert Jordan, etc. I've quit buying books, unless I hear that something is really special, because I already have 1700 novels, and that's more than I'll probably read in the remainder of my lifetime.

Jenab6, how old are you?

[PrairieMule]

I'm on chapter 2 and this is one real downer. Very hard core.

[cipi604]

I think i'm gonna' buy it.