Peak Oil News and Message Boards

Oops, premature submittal!

The upshot is the increase comes from blending oxygenates like ethanol into finished gasoline, not from refining, which actually produces a net loss in volume it looks like.

Pops (late response...thought this posted earlier) - I think part of the confusion comes from the fact that a certain amount of additional material beyond the oil volume is used to make some refined products (I think...like you I'm not a refinery guy). But as pointed out by others the "volume anomaly" would disappear if we used a weight and not the volume metric. The simplest analogy is water: a jug of water at 120 degrees has a different volume then a jug at 20 degrees. Granted not a very big difference but definitely different. But the two jugs, regardless of temp, weight the same. There would be a "volume gain" or "volume loss" depending on which way you're going. But it's still the same amount of water. Of course, if someone adds a cup of marbles to that jug both the volume and weight would change.

Mexico says Texas Governor Perry's border deployment politically motivated

AUSTIN Texas (Reuters) - The Mexican government has condemned the deployment of Texas National Guard troops to the U.S.-Mexican border, saying Governor Rick Perry authorized the move for political purposes.

"Mexico underscores that it is irresponsible to manipulate border security for political reasons," said the statement from the Mexican government and sent by its embassy in Washington on Thursday.

Perry, seen as a possible contender for the 2016 U.S. Republican presidential nomination, said he was sending up to 1,000 troops to the Mexican border to deter criminal activity caused by drug cartels, and accused President Barack Obama of not doing enough to secure the border.

"The unilateral measure taken by the government of Texas is undoubtedly mistaken and does not contribute to the efforts in which our two countries are engaged to build a safe border and create a solution to the phenomenon of migration," the Mexican statement said.

Perry said the deployment, which started in mid-August and is expected to cost at least $12 million a month, was needed because U.S. Border Patrol resources were being strained in managing a surge of children from Central America illegally crossing into the United States.

The Texas National Guard troops are working with the state's law enforcement in support roles, he said.
http://news.yahoo.com/mexico-says-texas-governor-perrys-border-deployment-politically-164056535.html;_ylt=AwrSyCTX0xFUV0QAH0XQtDMD

Well, if the Texas national guard is really helping do something about the cartel incursions, then I'm all for it. Obama admin sure hasn't done anything.

Well thought it appropriate to begin a discussion of Mexico and the sad state it is currently in because of how this country is now so much in the news. Their is a lot of literature now about this , so just let me contribute my two cents. Well where to start, Mexico has been exploited and abused first by Spain and then by the US for a long time already. Starting with annexing lots of it's former territory by the US. In the recent past the passing of NAFTA heralded a aggressive exploitation of labor and seizing sorry (trading) in Mexico natural resources. NAFTA opened the way to flood the market with cheap US corn which further impoverished the farmers of Mexico and left them with hardly any manner for self-sufficiency. Also, of course the drug trade and loose border encouraged trafficking of people and drugs with further destabilized Mexico. Also, you have an entrenched upper-ruling class that cares little about their country or it's people. The drug cartels along with corrupt police, military and politicians are now creating practically unlivable conditions in some parts of Mexico. Throw into the mix SAL loans made by the World Bank and International Monetary Fund with their perverse insistence on further impoverishing the masses and creating favorable conditions to basically almost ransack the country of it's resources. So you can see some reasons why Mexico finds itself in the condition it now does.
recommended book by Pulitzer Prize winner Andres Oppenheimer,
"Bordering on Chaos: Guerrillas, Stockbrokers, Politicians, and Mexico's Road to Prosperity"
Also, "The Case against Globalization"

In other words... Kill Whitey.

onlooker wrote:Well where to start, Mexico has been exploited and abused first by Spain and then by the US for a long time already. Starting with annexing lots of it's former territory by the US.

Oh please, cry me a river.

Where to start.

For starters, Mexico has done a "reconquista" of the old lands via immigration waves and in case you have not looked around you lately, we are and are becoming a Mexican nation ourselves.

I don't blame Mexicans though, it's our own fault for not getting control of the border like 60 darn years ago when we should have.

But anyhow what's done is done and I may have to finally learn Spanish.

And I don't have anything against latinos, other than the gang situation they import to here, but otherwise we're a melting pot and it's cool -- IT'S JUST BEEN TOO MUCH, TOO MUCH FROM ONE PLACE and we're becoming another Mexico.

About NAFTA -- Mexico is a mess, but nafta actually helped them a lot and brought a lot of jobs into there. At direct expense to jobs here, the US. Not that it was enough though, nothing is ever enough, just more waves of immigration come over.

About "the lost lands" -- they've got no right to them onlooker, for goodness sake, that was centuries ago now. Do you have any idea how empty the Mexican north america was?

It was utterly empty and unsettled. All this development was American. And this is all from another time and they don't have any more right to it than jolly England has any right to take Boston back.

"Mexico" only got its north American provinces because that was all New Spain and Spain had it.

If the US hadn't got it from them then the British just would have taken it, or Russia.

And it was Mexico that invited Americans into Texas to start with. They should have known better. Mexico was always a mess, that's not our fault -- what about that one emperor maximillian, what was he a Hapsburg or something? And then Napoleon put him on the throne of Mexico?

You can't blame Mexico's crazyness all on the US. All of this hemisphere's problems can't be all our fault. Look at Canada -- they do alright, they're not all messed up, right? Latin America's problems have a lot to do with their elite Spanish colonial history and all that oppression that went on. It ain't about us.

Lastly, a nice thing to say about Mexico -- it's where my favorite game comes from. Kerbal space program. I really am a global person and I'm pleased when something so innovative can come out of an unexpected place. Like skype coming from Estonia, and Iceland has done some cool things. It doesn't all have to be American. These are the benefits of globalism, seeing what the rest of the world can come up with that we never thought of.

So it's nice that Mexico has raised up enough now that they've got a tech industry and are doing some interesting innovation.

The drug cartel stuff though is a bunch of crap. The way that judges and prosecutors get shot. That's not our fault. That's a problem they've got, with their society, with their culture, with their history of corruption in politics.

Regarding corn: I'd say all the manufacturing jobs that Mexico got makes up for displaced corn farmers.

It's hard for me to believe that local corn was more expensive than American corn.

But anyhow look at it this way -- there's poor and hungry people in Mexico, and cheaper corn and a job at a Ford plant is a good thing you know? Not sure where that leaves American poor in Michigan who used to work at Ford, but it's been good for Mexico.

Mexico is actually a pretty nice place in the global scheme of things. Mexico is a middle income nation, and so not-hungry that they're the second fattest people on earth. The climate is nice, the food is great, and if they were next door to 90% of the countries on earth, they'd be looking pretty good in comparison.

Yeah King it's not bad, I've never been there and my only complaint is about the cartels though and that is spreading across the border and we have so many Mexican immigrants that Mexican cartels feel comfortable enough to put up "take the silver or take the lead" billboards in Texas, in Spanish. It's a warning for cops to to take their bribes.

They're trying to bring their system to here, and that's what we do not want. We want to keep our anglo culture and rule of law, we do not want to be a banana latin america republic, no matter how nice those places may be to vacation in.

I'm not a racist by the way, it just concerns me though, it's been too much immigration from one particular place and we're going to be forced into being a bilingual country.

Every culture is different. I struggle with this, I don't want to be racist, but shouldn't a Quebec get to keep its culture, and a west canada have their culture, and shouldn't we get to maintain ours?

If we get utterly overrun with latino immigration then it's just too much too fast and people stop assimilating and spanish is spoken, and not english, and english speakers can't find work sometimes unless they speak spanish too.

Random interesting fact about mexico, by the way.. the cultivation of corn that the natives did is one of the most amazing feats of genetic engineering in history. They started with just a little weed grass and created corn, from that, over centuries.

The inca did the same with potatoes, in south america. And potatoes, of course, became a staple crop for the old world.

Nobody would think you were a racist, since Mexicans are not a race, and in any case acknowledging inferiority where it exists is not racist.

The 'new' GOP annihilated blacks. Being an old (straight) white guy, I noticed.

Then, the GOP used the 'threat' of same sex marriage to get out the vote. I wondered how that would fly as there are as many 'gays' born into Republican families as Democratic. It worked on a so called 'base'.

Next, "Conservatives" double down on Climate Change, calling it a liberal hoax. GOP voted to prohibit
the DOD, NASA, from studying climate change, this way AGW will go away. (as issue)
http://www.dailyinterlake.com/opinion/d ... e3f36.html

"During the Bush Administration, there was no Ebola in the US"

Republicans never mention center right President O's nickname "Deporter in Chief". Why not?

President Bush, unlike President O had a strategy to rid the Mideast of terrorists.

President O gets a Republican, private health care, reform passed and is named a 'Socialist'.

House Republicans refused to put immigration reform to a vote. Instead, voted close to a billion dollars to build wall around Dick Cheney's undisclosed location.

Fifty five thousand Mexicans dead, only God knows how many killed in Guatemala, El Salvador and Honduras "War on Drugs". When a thousand war refugee children presented for asylum they are
interned in concentration camp like conditions or sent back at once. Children getting blame for American drugs demand or being Catholic ISIS infiltrators with deep tans.

Mexicans are sent 'home' at once. Mexicans do stay longer in the US then ANY Syrian of the three million war refugees or US Army hired Iraqi interpreters left to their own devices when US departed Iraq.

Mexico elects a conservative president who attempts to reform corrupt PEMEX . Too late. Oil, mostly all gone. Sold to grateful NORTH Americans.

Sixstrings wrote:They're trying to bring their system to here, and that's what we do not want.

That's the funny thing about the West. It wholesale imports 3rd worlders thinking they become ever thankful model citizens, not realizing that they turn the nation into the 3rd world shithole the came from.
And since politically correctness prevents anybody and especially any politician to do anything about it, one can only wonder where the Mexicans will migrate to illegally next, once they turned the US into mexico?

Forgive me for not have any sympathy whatsoever for Mexico and NAFTA. We're seeing a significant loss of manufacturing jobs here in Ontario and Mexico is where a lot of those jobs are moving to. This wasn't the case when NAFTA was first created. While Mexico did have cheaper labour I don't think the skill level and reliability of Mexican workers was high enough to attract much manufacturing. That has clearly changed over time and companies are now quite willing to move manufacturing to Mexico.

Bottom line: Mexico sucks because of Mexicans. It does not suck because of the United States, Canada, Spain or NAFTA. Indeed Mexico would be even worse off than it already is without the generous contributions of these parties.

yellowcanoe wrote:Forgive me for not have any sympathy whatsoever for Mexico and NAFTA. We're seeing a significant loss of manufacturing jobs here in Ontario and Mexico is where a lot of those jobs are moving to. This wasn't the case when NAFTA was first created. While Mexico did have cheaper labour I don't think the skill level and reliability of Mexican workers was high enough to attract much manufacturing. That has clearly changed over time and companies are now quite willing to move manufacturing to Mexico.

Do you blame the Mexicans for taking the jobs or Mr 1% for chasing more profits and not giving a stuff about the country he lives in or the people who live there.

So true what shaved monkey stated, because some of those so nice jobs as in worked like a slave for meager wages, have gone to China where they can extract even more savings ie. China workers willing to work even for less then Mexicans. Oh and the conditions are truly atrocious. So it really is a lose lose situation. We Americans exploited just not as bad as Third Worlders by the 1% who are exploiting all people not to mention the very Earth we all need to survive.

yellowcanoe wrote:Forgive me for not have any sympathy whatsoever for Mexico and NAFTA. We're seeing a significant loss of manufacturing jobs here in Ontario and Mexico is where a lot of those jobs are moving to. This wasn't the case when NAFTA was first created.

Hm, it's just now turned sour for Canada? NAFTA's been a loser for the US (working people anyway, not our capitalists) ever since it passed 25 whatever years ago.

Yes, you are right, you will lose all your manufacturing to Mexico.

We should have had a trade union with just Canada.

I still don't know how people were fool enough to get talked into this thing. They listened to Al Gore. They would not listen to Ross Perot. Al Gore told everyone Perot was crazy. Now Gore has moved on to climate change schemes.

Incidentally -- one of the principle globalist theories behind NAFTA was that if we raise Mexico up then they'll stop immigrating here so much. So we raised Mexico up. And now Mexico is just bigger and still immigrates here and has the jobs too.

And it's not just Mexico, by the way. Costa Rica has a large intel processor plant. We could use those jobs in maybe Alabama, ya know?

And our clothes are made in Honduras, and Nicaragua.

(oh! and of course Obama wants the PACIFIC free trade union now! Let's send what's left of the jobs to Vietnam, right? And have radiologists in India looking at xrays over the internet! It's brilliant, fantastic for capitalists and people working for the government. Not sure what everyone else is supposed to do, Walmart I guess, $7.25 and hour.)

Deputy Barnes wrote:Bottom line: Mexico sucks because of Mexicans. It does not suck because of the United States, Canada, Spain or NAFTA. Indeed Mexico would be even worse off than it already is without the generous contributions of these parties.

Agreed. We have the stop the guilt stuff and political correctness.

It's wise and appropriate for a place to manage its immigration and decide how many from where they want to let in.

We've just had TOO MUCH latino immigration, I'm sorry, it's just been too much. It really hit me the other day. I was in the cellphone store. And it occurred to me the clerk, the salesperson, and everyone else in the shop was all speaking Spanish.

I really felt like I was in a foreign nation and this is my own town. It's becoming the norm.

Nothing to do about it. I'll have to adjust. Too damn late for me to learn Spanish though and ever be fluent.

And I don't want to be racist, but here is the thing, if we do become another Mexico then there's still going to be a Mexico too so what has been lost? The USA has been lost.

That border SHOULD BE SEALED TIGHT and Democrats just won't do it!

And Repubicans use the issue but they never do it either! Argh. I don't mind all these different cultures, you can't just have so many from one place is all, you gotta have it slow enough so people assimilate and fit in and not create Nuevo Mexicos or Novo Russias around here.

(actually the Ukrainian and Russian immigrants I've ever met speak english. That's all I ask. Just that people speak english, is all, and then we keep a cap limiting how many coming in that don't speak english and give them time to assimilate and learn english.)

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-29858652
A US marine imprisoned in Mexico for driving a vehicle loaded with firearms across the border has been released.

The family of retired Marine Sgt Andrew Tahmooressi expressed their "overwhelming and humbling feeling of relief" in a statement.

A judge in Tijuana ordered his immediate release on Friday, eight months after he was jailed.

The 26-year-old from Florida had said he got lost on a California motorway and accidentally crossed the border.

How the Fúck did he "accidentally cross the border!

dolanbaker wrote:

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-29858652
A US marine imprisoned in Mexico for driving a vehicle loaded with firearms across the border has been released.

The family of retired Marine Sgt Andrew Tahmooressi expressed their "overwhelming and humbling feeling of relief" in a statement.

A judge in Tijuana ordered his immediate release on Friday, eight months after he was jailed.

The 26-year-old from Florida had said he got lost on a California motorway and accidentally crossed the border.

How the Fúck did he "accidentally cross the border!

Most of the Mexican/American border is open desert. The fenced sections are mostly in high traffic area's with cities on each side of the border.