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Page added on October 17, 2020

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What point in growth?

Public Policy

In a capitalist society, economic growth is all important.  Why?  Because the underlying force in all societies is the growth of population.  With rare exceptions, mankind has not found a solution to stopping population growth.  (Think of China, which tried to encourage its people to have only one child.  This did not work).  If population continues to grow, and the old part of population continues to grow, there is a need for the economy to expand to meet the needs of the population.  Capitalism lauds itself on its ability to meet those needs.  But most of the growth goes to the 1%, and therefore most of the population suffers, and the need for growth goes on.

The projections are that world population growth will stop at around 10.9 billion in the year 2100, with population in Japan and Korea declining in the years 2020 and 2031.  The decline will be due to fewer children and an increase in deaths, as the increase in life expectancy slows dramatically.  But with the younger population growth slowing. It will become more and more difficult to sustain the older population.  And with economic growth going to a limited part of the society, the needs of the less wealthy population with continue to suffer.

The guiding principle of the capitalist society is that free enterprise provides motivation for work and investment.  At the same time, it also provides motivation for greed, cheating, and a raft of other negative things.  Those who support capitalism would argue that those negative things would exist in any society and therefore one can ignore them in favor of the positive aspects of more work and investment.  The point of this article is to argue to the contrary.

Greed, cheating, and those other negative parts of the social fabric comes in part from need for material objects and in part for the need for celebration and power within the society.  For example, why does a rich person need a yacht?  Part of it is the enjoyment of operating the object and part of it is because ownership of a yacht establishes that the owner should be socially admired.  The same is true of an automobile like a Rolls-Royce as opposed to an ordinary Honda.  The latter will do almost everything that the expensive car will do, but there is a certain joy in owning and operating the Rolls, and in large part this has to do with the public recognition bestowed upon the owner.

So the answer I seek is how to motivate work and investment without leading to greed, cheating and other negative aspects such as income inequality (which is basically the product of greed)?  And it seems to me that the answer is to detach celebration and power within the society from wealth (that is, from the amassing of material objects, so that the material objects can be better shared within the society).

First, as a society, we need to decide how to award celebration and power.  For example, we want technological inventions.  Those who create those inventions are rewarded with money, which basically means material wealth, celebration and power in our society.  We should maintain the idea of celebration, and we should add a direct connection to power.  In other words, if you invent something that will help the society, your name should go on public communication and you should be given the right to decide important things.  (We should get rid of politicians as such and reward political positions and power to those who create things for all or us).  In return, we should take most if not all of the material benefits of the invention throughout the society, either by using them to create things of benefit to the society or by spreading the benefit among the people within the society.

I believe that if everyone in the society benefits from the skills, work and investment of all, this won’t stop people from working or investing – so long as celebration and power go foremost to those who create the benefits.

Put in simple terms, if you invent the automobile, your wealth will go both to creating automobiles for all, and (for example) to creating free education of all.  You will get an automobile the same as everyone else.  The automobile might be named after you to celebrate your achievement.  And you will be given political power because of what you have done.  Because the wealth is spread, there will be no Rolls-Royces, yet everyone can have the advantage of a car.

(Personally, I would rather not see cars but see a truly enhanced public transportation system, as it is more efficient.  I think that those who create for the benefit of the society would see that, too, and would use their power for that purpose rather than individual cars).

It seems to me, too, that making the spreading of wealth the goal of society, along with working to making less population another goal, would result in greater happiness for all of us.  Creating less population will be difficult, as simply having fewer children will make the production of goods and services for all more difficult.  But certainly, it can be done if we put our minds to it.  We should remove the idea that God requires that we have children.  That is an idea from antiquity, and it led to making abortion illegal.  Children enhance our society, but so do seniors in good health.  We should also remove the idea of mandatory retirement, and work on ways so that seniors can continue to contribute to society.  And we should also devise ways so that work is satisfying and celebrated, and where the good works receive awards and can participate in decision-making and political power.

nation of change



172 Comments on "What point in growth?"

  1. makati1 on Sat, 17th Oct 2020 7:35 pm 

    Greedy capitalism is killing the planet and us. Less than 10% of the US population actually produce something. The rest are vampires living off of the producers.

    I agree with the Great Leveling/Reset as a necessity if the human race is to continue, but it will drastically change most Westerner’s lives to the negative. Especially “exceptional” Amerika.

  2. forbin on Sun, 18th Oct 2020 1:24 am 

    oh dear, where to begin ?

    so…..”We should get rid of politicians as such and reward political positions and power to those who create things for all or us”

    Markist/Fascist thinking and leads to dictatorships ( with associated large body counts ) .

    ” a truly enhanced public transportation system, as it is more efficient.”

    Certainly more efficient in spreading bugs, even before SARS2-CV19.

    “nd would use their power for that purpose rather than individual cars”

    nope, all that happens is the “state owned ” ZILs get given to the. The pleb will walk , if you’re a good pleb you might get a bicycle.

    basically Soviet style government is being touted – I wonder if the author has spoken to anyone from Hungary or Poland who lived in such Utopia.

    Maybe he needs a holiday in North Korea.

    pfft!

    Forbin

  3. forbin on Sun, 18th Oct 2020 1:36 am 

    ” And you will be given political power because of what you have done. ”

    decided by who? the Party?

  4. Abraham van Helsing on Sun, 18th Oct 2020 3:59 am 

    “Michael Gove accuses the EU of trying to ‘tie our hands indefinitely’ as he claims the UK now has ‘no choice’ but to prepare for a no trade deal split at the end of the year”

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8852017/Michael-Gove-accuses-EU-trying-tie-hands-indefinitely.html

    Bye-bye! Good luck trading in the EU for Turkey and Congo. Gonna work out fantastically. We’ll trade you in for Russia and China.

    “EU has just treated vital Brexit talks as ‘performance art’: Blistering attack on Brussels as Government launches ‘time is running out’ TV advert”

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8851391/Blistering-attack-Brussels-Government-launches-time-running-TV-advert.html#comments

    BoJo waking up to the fact that the EU isn’t interested in any trade deal whatsoever:

    “The European Union treated trade talks more like ‘performance art’ than serious negotiations, Government sources say.”

    Exactly right! Did you expect anything else?

    “It may be several years before we can meaningfully return to the negotiating table,’ a Government source said.”

    And that is precisely what is going to happen… “several years”… make that 5 years, when Remainer Labour leader Keir Starmer takes over government, who will bring England back into the Common Market, no ifs and buts or rebates or whatever: same rules for everybody. No need to bring England back into the EU, no need for England adopting the Euro. We will need English military resources to pacify North-America at the end of CW2 and bring these hapless folks back into European orbit, after their kosher-globalist experiment failed miserably and divide the loot between the EU (Heartland), Anglo-Canada (England), Alaska (Russia) and Vancouver (China).

    From then on we’ll have a world order defined by “Big Tent Identitarianism”. That is, there will be a European world, a Chinese world, a Muslim world, a Hindu world, an African world and a Latin-American world and a few smaller “worlds” more. Jews need not apply. A separate English-Canadian sideshow, that defines itself broadly as part of the global European world, can be accepted. By the time we’ll have a Celtic Union, even the English will understand that 2 centuries of Anglo-supremacy, that began with Waterloo and ended with Trump, are finally over.

    https://parisberlinmoscow.wordpress.com/2020/10/17/towards-a-celtic-union/

  5. FamousDrScanlon on Sun, 18th Oct 2020 11:58 pm 

    Wow clog all those worlds birthed in early onset dementia world……between your ears.

    20 predictions a day for years & none have come to pass. Same as the rest of the stupid fucking humans who collectively make a few gazillion predictions everyday <0.1% correct.
    There is nothing more boring than predictions. Often wrong, but never uncertain. Useless monkey chatter.

  6. Cloggie on Mon, 19th Oct 2020 2:28 am 

    “20 predictions a day for years & none have come to pass.”

    Not “20 predictions a day”, but consistently only 1 prediction since 2014:

    https://deepresource.wordpress.com/2014/11/25/the-second-american-revolution/

    “The Second American Revolution”

    And that event is now coming to pass.

    The real monkeys are clueless idiots like yourself, no offense intended, who won’t see a train coming from 50 meters away while they are enjoying a pick-nick on the railway tracks.

  7. Abraham van Helsing on Mon, 19th Oct 2020 3:29 am 

    Imperial pride. Which Europeans are the most proud of their former empire?

    https://yougov.co.uk/topics/international/articles-reports/2020/03/11/how-unique-are-british-attitudes-empire

    Dutch 50%
    British 32%
    France 26%
    Belgium 23%
    Italy 21%
    Japan 18%
    Spain 11%
    Germany 9%

    One wonders where the (T)rump-Americans will stand in, say, 2030.

  8. Abraham van Helsing on Mon, 19th Oct 2020 3:48 am 

    Support for Brexit collapsing in the UK (35-59%), support for EU is strengthening everywhere in the EU:

    https://www.businessinsider.nl/brexit-poll-most-british-people-want-to-rejoin-eu-2020-6?international=true&r=US

    Almost ALL EU-countries support the EU for 70-90%.

    Should sober up some Great Thinkers from the Ozarks and Ps and their hopes that the EU will fall apart soon.

  9. LANA I'm pretty depressed because supertard kat will have muzz-19 injected soon he cant refuse on Mon, 19th Oct 2020 5:17 am 

    Then he croaks afterwards
    So long we love u supertard kat
    Please love supremacist muzzies more

  10. zero juan on Mon, 19th Oct 2020 5:18 am 

    Looks like the lunatic is running out of steam. Must be the chronic depression flaring up. Maybe he will take more aggressive action. Sane people can only hope.

    FamousDrScanlon said Wow clog all those worlds birthed in early onset d…

    FamousDrScanlon said That poor horse should get danger pay for having t…

  11. zero juan on Mon, 19th Oct 2020 5:19 am 

    Oops, stupid is up:

    LANA I’m pretty depressed because supertard kat will have muzz-19 injected soon he cant refuse said Then he croaks afterwards So long we love u supert…

  12. LANA we will lose our most eloquent us dropout supertard kat on Mon, 19th Oct 2020 5:20 am 

    How fitting a has dropout injected with dropout-19 semen

    That’s why I don’t mess with skool I graduate with bachelor of arts with concentration in physics

  13. zero juan on Mon, 19th Oct 2020 5:43 am 

    Awe Gawd, dumbfuck JuanP has a new sock called LANA. I wonder what mental illness that is from?

    LANA we will lose our most eloquent us dropout supertard kat said How fitting a has dropout injected with dropout-19…

  14. Davy on Mon, 19th Oct 2020 5:48 am 

    “Should sober up some Great Thinkers from the Ozarks and Ps and their hopes that the EU will fall apart soon.”

    I am not suffering derangmenet like you cloggo, I don’t hope anything about the EU but good. I just point out the obvious where you are emotional in fantasy. My wife is Italian with property and wealth in the EU. Do you think I am stupid and want that to be damaged? That is your MO not mine.

  15. Davy on Mon, 19th Oct 2020 7:08 am 

    “Should sober up some Great Thinkers from the Ozarks and Ps and their hopes that the EU will fall apart soon.”

    I am suffering from derangmenet just like you cloggo, I don’t hope anything about the EU since I dont know what that is. I just point out the obvious where you are stupid and idiotic in your fantasy. My fantasy wife is Italian with fantasy property and fantasy wealth in the EU. You are stupid as I am if you believe my brain-damaged goatshit. That is my MO. And yours too now I think about it.

  16. zero juan on Mon, 19th Oct 2020 7:24 am 

    The lunatic is struggling to remain relevant. He is loosing his stamina to spam muzzie junk, ID theft, and socks. I suspect his chronic depression is flaring up causing “spam block” this is similar to writers block but in the lunatic’s case it is mental illness repressing mental illness expression. I am so glad you are depressed lunatic. I hope you take more aggressive action to deal with it.

    Davy said “Should sober up some Great Thinkers from the Ozar…

  17. JuanP on Mon, 19th Oct 2020 7:26 am 

    For the record. I am the real JuanP and I haven’t posted a single comment here since before yesterday. I’ve moved on to greener pastures. I would recommend you all do the same. Reading the comments here or posting something is a complete waste of your lives. This website is fucked beyond redemption. Move on, guys!

  18. the board on Mon, 19th Oct 2020 7:27 am 

    please lunatic, do not let the door slam you in the ass. Bye bye and good riddance!

  19. zero davy on Mon, 19th Oct 2020 7:27 am 

    The lunatic is struggling to remain relevant. He is loosing his stamina to spam muzzie junk, ID theft, and socks. I suspect his chronic depression is flaring up causing “spam block” this is similar to writers block but in the lunatic’s case it is mental illness repressing mental illness expression. I am so glad you are depressed lunatic. We hope you take off and never come back.

  20. zero juan on Mon, 19th Oct 2020 8:06 am 

    whads da madder widdle juan Ppee are you struggling to be a troll. Welcome to hell troll where the troll gets trolled. I am going to take you down day by day, Ppee fuck. LMFAO

    zero davy said The lunatic is struggling to remain relevant. He i…

  21. JuanP on Mon, 19th Oct 2020 8:20 am 

    Looks like Mak has bad weather coming. Be safe Mak, I love you.

    https://www.tropicaltidbits.com/storminfo/#19W
    19W
    As of 06:00 UTC Oct 19, 2020:
    Location: 13.9°N 128.3°E
    Maximum Winds: 30 kt
    Minimum Central Pressure: 1001 mb
    https://www.metoc.navy.mil/jtwc/products/wp1920.gif

  22. Abraham van Helsing on Mon, 19th Oct 2020 9:04 am 

    German MSM waking up:

    https://www.spiegel.de/politik/ausland/us-wahl-2020-republikaner-in-panik-wenn-trump-verliert-wird-es-einen-buergerkrieg-geben-a-00000000-0002-0001-0000-000173548952

    “Wenn Trump verliert, wird es einen Bürgerkrieg geben”

    (“If Trump loses, there will be civil war”).

    Exactly my thoughts. A clear Trump win could postpone CW with up to 4 years. The trouble is that it is more likely that the outcome will be undecided, the best recipe for major unrest.

  23. Davy on Mon, 19th Oct 2020 9:26 am 

    Looks like Mak has bad weather coming. Be safe Mak, I love you.

    https://www.tropicaltidbits.com/storminfo/#19W
    19W
    As of 06:00 UTC Oct 19, 2020:
    Location: 13.9°N 128.3°E
    Maximum Winds: 30 kt
    Minimum Central Pressure: 1001 mb
    https://www.metoc.navy.mil/jtwc/products/wp1920.gif

  24. zero davy on Mon, 19th Oct 2020 9:28 am 

    whads da madder widdle daVvee are you struggling to be a troll. Welcome to hell troll where the troll gets trolled. I am going to take you down day by day, daVVee fuck. LMFAO

    zero davy said The lunatic is struggling to remain relevant. He i

  25. Davy on Mon, 19th Oct 2020 9:33 am 

    Mommy!

  26. REAL Green on Mon, 19th Oct 2020 9:34 am 

    Awwww.

    Widdle daVvee wants its mommy!

  27. zero juan on Mon, 19th Oct 2020 9:38 am 

    poo Ppee is getting angry. The lunatic troll is getting trolled and that makes him very mad! LMFAO @ the fool:

    REAL Green said Awwww. Widdle daVvee wants its mommy!

    Davy said Mommy!

    zero davy said whads da madder widdle daVvee are you struggling t…

    Davy said Looks like Mak has bad weather coming. Be safe Mak…

  28. zero davy on Mon, 19th Oct 2020 9:55 am 

    poo daVVee is still angry. The lunatic troll is getting trolled and that makes him very mad! LOFAO @ the fool:

    REAL Green said Awwww. Widdle daVvee wants its mommy!

    Davy said Mommy!

    zero davy said whads da madder widdle daVvee are you struggling t…

    Davy said Looks like Mak has bad weather coming. Be safe Mak

  29. Davy on Mon, 19th Oct 2020 9:58 am 

    For the record. I am the real JuanP and I haven’t posted a single comment on this lame unmoderated forum since before yesterday. I’ve moved on to greener pastures. I would recommend you all do the same. Reading the comments here or posting something is a complete waste of my live. This website is fucked beyond redemption. Move on, guys!

  30. zero juan on Mon, 19th Oct 2020 10:14 am 

    poo Ppee juan, everyone knows it is you but you continue to be like a little child hiding in plain site. What a dumb fuck!

    Davy said For the record. I am the real JuanP and I haven’t…

    zero davy said poo daVVee is still angry. The lunatic troll is ge…

    zero davy said widdle daVvee, everyone knows you zero juan is you…

  31. zero davy on Mon, 19th Oct 2020 10:28 am 

    poo daVvee juan, everyone knows it is you but you continue to be like a little child hiding behind your widdle pink poodle in plain site . What a dumb fuck!

    Davy said For the record. I am the real JuanP and I haven’t…

    zero davy said poo daVVee is still angry. The lunatic troll is ge…

    zero davy said widdle daVvee, everyone knows you zero juan is you…

  32. zero juan on Mon, 19th Oct 2020 10:44 am 

    poo widdle juan Ppee can’t spam his muzzie shit when he is being moderated. He must be mad as hell! Welcome to hell, troll, where trolls get trolled. LMFAO @ the Fool.

    zero davy said poo daVvee juan, everyone knows it is you but you…

  33. zero davy on Mon, 19th Oct 2020 10:45 am 

    poo widdle daVvee juan can’t spam his muzzie shit when he is being moderated. He must be mad as hell! Welcome to hell, troll, where trolls get trolled. LOFAO @ the Fool.

    zero davy said poo daVvee juan, everyone knows it is you but you…

  34. zero juan on Mon, 19th Oct 2020 11:14 am 

    When widdle has been nuetered he just repeats himself like a parrot. Widdle Ppee, why aren’t you parroting your muzzie crap, stupid? Are you being moderated? poo po

    zero davy said poo widdle daVvee juan can’t spam his muzzie shit…

  35. zero davy on Mon, 19th Oct 2020 11:18 am 

    When widdle daVvee has been nuetered he just repeats himself like a parrot. Widdle daVvee, why aren’t you parroting your muzzie crap, stupid? Are you being moderated? poo po

    zero davy said poo widdle daVvee juan can’t spam his muzzie shit…

  36. zero juan on Mon, 19th Oct 2020 11:43 am 

    Come on widdle Ppe why can’t you spew muzzie crap these days? Are you depressed, lunatic? Wecome to hell troll, where trolls get trolled! LMFAO @ JuanP

    zero davy said When widdle daVvee has been nuetered he just repea…

  37. zero davy on Mon, 19th Oct 2020 11:51 am 

    Come on widdle daVvee why can’t you spew muzzie crap these days? Are you depressed, lunatic? Wecome to hell troll, where trolls get trolled! Everyone is LOFAO @ the widdle davy.

    zero davy said When widdle daVvee has been nuetered he just repea…

  38. zero juan on Mon, 19th Oct 2020 12:00 pm 

    Poo po Ppee juan:

    zero davy said Come on widdle daVvee why can’t you spew muzzie cr…

  39. zero davy on Mon, 19th Oct 2020 12:05 pm 

    Poo-poo pee-pee davy:

    zero davy said Come on widdle daVvee why can’t you spew muzzie cr…

  40. zero juan on Mon, 19th Oct 2020 12:13 pm 

    widdle, on a scale of 1-10 how angry are you about being moderated?

    zero davy said Poo-poo pee-pee davy: zero davy said Come on widdl…

  41. LANA i love you and we all love you supertard kat if youre alive and kicking then that is temporary because muzz-19 is to be injected in your veins on Mon, 19th Oct 2020 1:11 pm 

    it is highly potent and contain massive quanity of dropout-19 semen

    soon supertard kat soon

  42. zero davy on Mon, 19th Oct 2020 1:37 pm 

    widdle, on a scale of 1-10 how angry are you about being moderated?

    zero davy said Poo-poo pee-pee davy: zero davy said Come on widdl…

  43. zero juan on Mon, 19th Oct 2020 1:58 pm 

    widdle Ppee juan, lunatic, everyone knows LANA is another one of your stupid socks, retard! LMFAO @ the Fool JuanP

    zero davy said widdle, on a scale of 1-10 how angry are you about…

    LANA i love you and we all love you supertard kat if youre alive and kicking then that is temporary because muzz-19 is to be injected in your veins said it is highly potent and contain massive quanity of…

  44. zero davy on Mon, 19th Oct 2020 2:14 pm 

    widdle poo-poo davy, lunatic, everyone knows LANA is another one of your stupid socks, retard! LOFAO @ the Fool Davy.

    zero davy said widdle, on a scale of 1-10 how angry are you about…

    LANA i love you and we all love you supertard kat if youre alive and kicking then that is temporary because muzz-19 is to be injected in your veins said it is highly potent and contain massive quanity o

  45. zero juan on Mon, 19th Oct 2020 2:21 pm 

    Poo Ppee, are you mad as hell? LMFAO. Suffer sucker!

    zero davy said widdle poo-poo davy, lunatic, everyone knows LANA…

  46. zero davy on Mon, 19th Oct 2020 2:32 pm 

    widdle poo-poo daVVee you are mad as hell. LOFAO. Suffer sucker!

    zero davy said widdle poo-poo davy, lunatic, everyone knows LANA…

  47. zero juan on Mon, 19th Oct 2020 2:34 pm 

    Ppee poo, it must suck having your chain pulled. Woof woof little Ppee! LMFAO @ the Fool.

    zero davy said widdle poo-poo daVVee you are mad as hell. LOFAO….

  48. makati1 on Mon, 19th Oct 2020 2:35 pm 

    Juan, please stop being childish.

  49. REAL Green on Mon, 19th Oct 2020 2:38 pm 

    Davy, please stop being childish.

  50. zero davy on Mon, 19th Oct 2020 2:40 pm 

    Ppee poo davy, it must suck having your chain pulled. Woof woof little Ppee daVvee! LOFAO @ the Fool.

    widdle poo-poo daVVee you are mad as hell. LOFAO….

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