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Page added on February 21, 2018
Vision 2030 & the Political Costs of Saudi Reforms
A pillar of the Saudi social contract has been the allocation of oil rents to the population in exchange for loyalty and fidelity to the Saud clan. A key weakness of Vision 2030 is its lack of focus on the potential political consequences of economic reforms. The plan seems to assume that its ramifications will be easily borne by the Saudi population.
However, the IMF postulates that the potential failure of the reforms to produce economic growth and ultimately private sector jobs for Saudis may lead either to rising unemployment and social pressures or increased public employment, which would have negative fiscal implications. If the government becomes unable to sustain its current level of payouts to the population, this will almost certainly result in rising public dissatisfaction.
As more austerity measures are pursued, the social contract between the population and the government is likely to come under unprecedented stress. According to a report by Chatham House, an effective renegotiation of the social contract is critical if the government is to secure the public’s buy-in on the socioeconomic changes that it is attempting to make.
This renegotiation is already unfolding. While it is unlikely that Saudi Arabia will democratize soon, the recalibration of its authoritarian bargain may mean greater avenues for involving the public in decision-making and some increased transparency and accountability.
Seven years after the Arab uprisings, chaos has resulted in some of the region’s countries affected by changes brought on in 2011. Consequently, Saudi Arabia’s argument for stability holds strong sway.
The government is presenting itself as a bulwark against regional instability. It has also encouraged hyper-nationalistic discourse, which was evident in the 2017 National Day celebrations, and its rhetoric regarding the ongoing GCC crisis.
According to the Arab Gulf States Institute, this push to reinforce the Saudi identity is part of a long-term effort by Gulf states that aims to increase a sense of national belonging, where loyalty to the state takes precedence over the tribe, region, or sect.
The arrest of a number of Saudi princes and business tycoons in November 2017, besides helping Prince Mohammed consolidate his power, is also designed to show the population that King Salman and his son are serious about fighting corruption, however selective this fight may be.
Overall, the government needs to increase its levels of transparency and openness. While all these new monitoring and reporting institutions are admirable, they are still government bodies. For Vision 2030 to have a chance for success, there has to be involvement from civil society actors and more freedom of the press.
The exact opposite has been happening as the government has cracked down on dissent and has jailed many of its critics, including a number of journalists and writers.
Barriers to transformation: Education and training
As a result of the government’s push to increase the employment of Saudis in the private sector, companies are facing substantial difficulties in hiring and retaining suitable local talent. Education and training remain key issues as the Saudi educational system—despite going through a multitude of reforms—is still unable to provide enough graduates who are able and willing to work in the private sector.
Saudi workers demand higher wages and underperform in the private sector, creating an array of issues for multinational firms operating in the country that need to meet their Saudization quotas.
By 2030, a full half of the Saudi population is expected to be under the age of 25. Educating, training, and placing those youth in economically productive jobs is one of the biggest challenges Saudi policymakers face in the coming decade.
Significant investments in education over the past two decades have led to a sharp increase in university enrollment figures, making the kingdom a regional leader in terms of educational attainment.
However, the quality of Saudi education remains a key issue. Primary and secondary education has historically been biased toward religious subjects at the expense of STEM (science, technology, engineering and mathematics) subjects.
In the 2015 Trends in International Mathematics and Science Studies (TIMSS) global rankings which take place every four years, Saudi students ranked in the lowest tenth percentile in both mathematics and science. Similar to other Arab countries, the Saudi education system encourages memorization over the development of problem-solving and creative thinking skills.
At the university level, increased investment has led to a rise in the number of graduates, but the Saudi economy is increasingly unable to absorb them into the workforce. Sustained economic growth over the past two decades has indeed increased the number of white-collar private-sector jobs. However, many of these new positions are being filled by expats.
Saudi women: the fight for equality continues
In the World Economic Forum’s 2016 Gender Gap Report, Saudi Arabia ranked 141, ahead only of Syria, Pakistan, and Yemen. The male guardianship system in the kingdom remains a major obstacle toward equality. Saudi women need their male guardian’s approval to access healthcare, get married, travel, work, or open a business.
Over the past decades, Saudi Arabia has made incredible progress in terms of women’s education and currently more than half of all university graduates are women. Despite this progress, the unemployment rate for women is 32.7 percent. Saudi women continue to face formidable cultural and regulatory barriers of entry to the labor market.
Women tend to work in a limited number of sectors such as healthcare and education. There are also restrictions on mixed gender workplaces, which further constrains employment options for women.
The Vision 2030 document states that the goal is to increase women’s participation in the workforce from 22 percent to 30 percent. The end of the driving ban for Saudi women is a step toward achieving that goal, and signals the government’s willingness to pursue socioeconomic liberalization and face down pressure from the religious establishment and more conservative elements of society.
In addition to the end of the driving ban, the government has moved to remove a number of restrictions on women over the past years including the ability to access some public services and attend sports events in stadiums. The next phase for the fight for women’s rights in the kingdom is to dismantle the male guardianship system. This will be the true litmus test for Saudi modernizers in the government.
Neom: Desert dreams
The plan to build Neom, a city operated by artificial intelligence, manned by naturalized Saudi robots, and powered by the sun, is certainly ambitious, but the plan raises more questions than answers.
To start with, aside from the robots, who will build and work in the city? The Saudi government already struggles to convince Saudis to work in the private sector, and executing a plan of this magnitude will certainly require, at least in the short to medium term, a surge of foreign consultants and contractors to build, then operate such a city.
Secondly, Saudi Arabia’s technology and industrial sectors do not have the capacity to undertake such an endeavor, meaning that all the necessary technology and equipment will have to be imported.
Thirdly, the costs of building and sustaining such a city can easily consume much of the amounts raised from the ARAMCO IPO and other revenue-generating initiatives, and there is no guarantee that the city would generate the types of returns needed to attract outside investment.
Such urban megaprojects have had mixed results in Saudi Arabia. The six “New Economic Cities” announced in 2005 are yet to be populated and as a result are not operating as intended. The most advanced of them in terms of development and infrastructure, King Abdullah’s Economic City (KAEC), has not been able to attract the projected number of residents, businesses, or investors. So far, nothing about Neom shows that it may have a different fate.
A prince with a plan, or a plan with a prince?
Central to Saudi Arabia’s drive to reform and Vision 2030 is Prince Mohammed, who was promoted to Crown Prince in June 2017 in what was considered a bloodless coup against a respected and powerful veteran prince, Mohammed Bin Nayef. Is Saudi Vision 2030 a historical attempt at reforming the kingdom, or is it a vehicle for an ambitious young prince to become king and rule Saudi Arabia for decades to come?
The truth is likely somewhere in the middle. The combination of lower oil prices and demographic changes has certainly increased the pressure on Saudi policymakers to attempt to deal with these issues before they come to a head at a later stage.
To that end, Prince Mohammed is the right prince at the right time to attempt to push through some of these much-needed reforms. However, should the plan stall or fall short of realizing its ambitious goals, the Prince Mohammed brand is likely to be tainted—domestically, regionally, and internationally.
The internal cohesion of the Saudi royal family remains an issue in light of Prince Mohammed’s moves to consolidate power, most recently by removing Prince Mutaib Bin Abdullah from command of the Saudi Arabian National Guard and arresting him with a number of other princes, technocrats, and businessmen.
While such moves may endear Prince Mohammed to the Saudi public as a fighter of corruption, internally they may add to Saudi royals’ resentment over the meteoric rise of Prince Mohammed. Should Vision 2030 stall or fail to achieve some of its stated objectives, it is likely the prince would face increased internal opposition from disgruntled elites resentful of his meteoric rise and the ongoing purges.
The relentless speed at which Prince Mohammed and his team are trying to remake Saudi Arabia is a cause for concern. According to IMF’s Director of Middle East and North Africa Masood Ahmed, “the transformation of oil-exporting economies is no easy task and will be a long-term project. It will require a sustained push for reforms and well-thought-out communication.” The kingdom would be better served by pursuing reform plans that proceed at a slower but more sustainable pace.
Saudi Arabia faces a number of long-term structural obstacles in education and employment, which may take generations to fully overcome. Doing so will require strong political will, flexibility, a willingness to reassess goals along the way and the public’s acceptance of the reforms, as they will take years to bear fruit. Time will tell if Prince Mohammed has the patience, or aptitude, for a slow-paced but sustained transformation of the kingdom.
*This piece originally appeared in The Cairo Review of Global Affairs.
81 Comments on "Vision 2030 & the Political Costs of Saudi Reforms"
MASTERMIND on Wed, 21st Feb 2018 12:31 pm
Check out the website for the Saudi Vision!
http://vision2030.gov.sa/en/node
I can’t wait to visit a new Saudi entertainment hub! /sarc
MASTERMIND on Wed, 21st Feb 2018 12:32 pm
The collapse of Saudi Arabia is inevitable
http://www.middleeasteye.net/columns/collapse-saudi-arabia-inevitable-1895380679
Saudi Aramco CEO sees oil supply shortage coming as investments, discoveries drop
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-aramco-oil/aramco-ceo-sees-oil-supply-shortage-as-investments-discoveries-drop-idUSKBN19V0KR
Saudi Arabia’s Energy Minister Warns of World Oil Shortages Ahead
https://www.wsj.com/articles/saudi-minister-sees-end-of-oil-price-slump-1476870790
Saudi Arabian oil reserves are overstated by 40% – Wikileaks
https://www.theguardian.com/business/2011/feb/08/saudi-oil-reserves-overstated-wikileaks
Hello on Wed, 21st Feb 2018 12:47 pm
>>> The collapse of Saudi Arabia is inevitable
Yes. Everything collapses eventually. Even europe, china and the us.
The question is when.
Kenz300 on Wed, 21st Feb 2018 1:14 pm
And the population keeps growing……
demanding more resources.
MASTERMIND on Wed, 21st Feb 2018 1:37 pm
Hello
Within the next decade..
Peer Reviewed Study: Society Could Collapse In A Decade, Predicts Historian (Turchin, 2010)
https://www.nature.com/articles/463608a
NASA Peer Reviewed Study: Industrial Civilization is Headed for Irreversible Collapse (Motesharrei, 2014)
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0921800914000615
The Royal Society: Peer Reviewed Study, Now for the First Time A Global Collapse Appears Likely (Ehrlich, 2013)
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3574335/
Peer Reviewed Study: Limits to Growth was Right. Research Shows We’re Nearing Global Collapse (Turner, 2014)
http://sustainable.unimelb.edu.au/sites/default/files/docs/MSSI-ResearchPaper-4_Turner_2014.pdf
Peer Reviewed Study: Financial System Supply-Chain Cross-Contagion: Global Systemic Collapse (Korowicz, 2012)
http://www.feasta.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/Trade-Off1.pdf
MASTERMIND on Wed, 21st Feb 2018 1:43 pm
Number of US hate groups rises 20 percent in three years
http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/374878-splc-number-of-us-hate-groups-rises-20-percent-in-three-years
GregT on Wed, 21st Feb 2018 2:28 pm
Peer Reviewed Study: Society Could Collapse In A Decade, Predicts Historian (Turchin, 2010)
https://www.nature.com/articles/463608a
In reality, this article is titled “Political instability may be a contributor in the coming decade”, and the author is referring to the US and Western Europe.
GregT on Wed, 21st Feb 2018 2:31 pm
NASA Peer Reviewed Study: Industrial Civilization is Headed for Irreversible Collapse (Motesharrei, 2014)
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0921800914000615
This article is actually titled: “Human and nature dynamics (HANDY): Modeling inequality and use of resources in the collapse or sustainability of societies“
GregT on Wed, 21st Feb 2018 2:34 pm
The Royal Society: Peer Reviewed Study, Now for the First Time A Global Collapse Appears Likely (Ehrlich, 2013)
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3574335/
This article is titled: “Can a collapse of global civilization be avoided?”
From the conclusion:
“Do we think global society can avoid a collapse in this century? The answer is yes, because modern society has shown some capacity to deal with long-term threats, at least if they are obvious or continuously brought to attention (think of the risks of nuclear conflict).”
GregT on Wed, 21st Feb 2018 2:43 pm
Peer Reviewed Study: Limits to Growth was Right. Research Shows We’re Nearing Global Collapse (Turner, 2014)
http://sustainable.unimelb.edu.au/sites/default/files/docs/MSSI-ResearchPaper-4_Turner_2014.pdf
This article is in reality titled:
“Is Global Collapse Imminent? An Updated Comparison of The Limits to Growth with Historical Data”
GregT on Wed, 21st Feb 2018 2:45 pm
Peer Reviewed Study: Financial System Supply-Chain Cross-Contagion: Global Systemic Collapse (Korowicz, 2012)
http://www.feasta.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/Trade-Off1.pdf
This article is titled correctly, and in my opinion, presents to most likely path forward.
Highly recommended read.
Hello on Wed, 21st Feb 2018 2:52 pm
Thank you guys for the interesting links.
Is there also some later work, 2016 or 2017 maybe, which also takes new development into consideration? Short term predictions change frequently based on the latest situations.
GregT on Wed, 21st Feb 2018 2:53 pm
MM,
Anybody who so wishes can read the reports that you repeatedly link to.
Please stop misrepresenting other peoples’ work. It lends nothing to your credibility, and only leads others to question your intellectual abilities, or lack thereof.
Thanks
MASTERMIND on Wed, 21st Feb 2018 3:10 pm
All Trump did with his tax cuts was accelerate the insolvency of this country. I welcome it because the chain of events that led to the French Revolution was catalyzed by the French royal government going bankrupt – we need a revolutionary situation if we have any hope at all of addressing the problems facing us in any serious way.
GregT on Wed, 21st Feb 2018 3:14 pm
Conclusion from the 2012 Korowicz paper, which by the way MM, is not a peer reviewed study.
“Our immediate concern is crisis and shock planning. It should now be clear that this is far more extensive than merely focussing on the financial system. It includes how we might move forward if a reversion to current conditions proves impossible. That is we also need transition planning and preparation. Even while subject to lock-in and the reflexivity trap, this will be most effective if it works from bottom-up as well as top-down.”
Some of us ARE planning and preparing for a transition MM, from the bottom-up.
Just saying dude.
GregT on Wed, 21st Feb 2018 3:18 pm
“All Trump did with his tax cuts was accelerate the insolvency of this country.”
Trump is not responsible for the situation we find ourselves in. This has been evolving since at least the early 70s, and could easily go on for at least couple of more decades.
MASTERMIND on Wed, 21st Feb 2018 3:19 pm
Greg is triggered!
https://imgur.com/a/G4lSB
You are going full blown schizo! LOL You fundamentalist doomie preppers are so funny!
MASTERMIND on Wed, 21st Feb 2018 3:20 pm
Greg
I never said Trump was responsible for the full situation. I said he was responsible for speeding up the process. Greg I am noticing a pattern with you. That you see and hear whatever you want..Regardless of the facts.
MASTERMIND on Wed, 21st Feb 2018 3:25 pm
Greg
A couple more decades? LOL keep dreaming pal..We have permanent oil supply shortages coming in a few years combined with global debt of around 330 percent of GDP..The shortages are going to cause an economic collapse….
https://imgur.com/a/6dEDt
http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v481/n7382/full/481433a.html
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0301421509001281
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S030142151300342X
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0016236114010254
http://www.geo.cornell.edu/eas/energy/the_challenges/peak_oil.html
http://www.energybulletin.net/sites/default/files/Peak%20Oil_Study%20EN.pdf
http://www.scribd.com/document/367688629/HSBC-Peak-Oil-Report-2017
GregT on Wed, 21st Feb 2018 3:30 pm
MM,
How do you ever expect anybody to take anything that you say at all seriously, if you are unable to tell the truth?
Get with the program dude. You’re not fooling anyone, and only making yourself look like a complete idiot. If you do possess any semblance of intelligence, you certainly have not expressed it here.
MASTERMIND on Wed, 21st Feb 2018 3:49 pm
The End of the Oil Age is Imminent!
Recently, the HSBC oil report stated that 80% of conventional oil fields were declining at a rate of 5-7% per year. This means that there will be an oil shortage of ~30 million barrels per day by 2030 and ~40 million barrels per day by 2040.
http://www.scribd.com/document/367688629/HSBC-Peak-Oil-Report-2017
What is mentioned far less often is that annual oil discoveries have lagged annual production since the 1980s.
https://imgur.com/a/6dEDt
Now, this problem has nothing to do with the recent decline in the oil price, which started in 2014. This has been an on-going problem for the past 30 years. Now, the IEA is predicting oil shortages by ~2020 due to declining exploration.
https://www.wsj.com/articles/iea-says-global-oil-discoveries-at-record-low-in-2016-1493244000
Here, the IEA blames this problem on the low oil price. But, this problem started in the 1980s. The problem is geological: we are running out of conventional cheap oil. Shale and tar sands are not the answer, either. Those resources are far too expensive, compared to conventional oil, because the global economy is based on cheap conventional oil. Expensive oil is not a replacement for cheap oil.
Based upon the HSBC report and the IEA, the End of Oil Age will start around ~2020: there will be a dramatic economic depression due to exhaustion of cheap oil. This will cause a global economic collapse.
GregT on Wed, 21st Feb 2018 5:19 pm
A couple more decades? LOL keep dreaming pal..We have permanent oil supply shortages coming in a few years combined with global debt of around 330 percent of GDP..The shortages are going to cause an economic collapse….”
https://imgur.com/a/6dEDt
http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v481/n7382/full/481433a.html
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0301421509001281
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S030142151300342X
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0016236114010254
http://www.geo.cornell.edu/eas/energy/the_challenges/peak_oil.html
http://www.energybulletin.net/sites/default/files/Peak%20Oil_Study%20EN.pdf
http://www.scribd.com/document/367688629/HSBC-Peak-Oil-Report-2017
I have already provided quotes from both the abstracts and conclusions of all of those reports MM.
None of them come to the same conclusions as you have.
MASTERMIND on Wed, 21st Feb 2018 5:24 pm
Greg
You sure have you quoted the legal disclaimer at the bottom of the HSBC study..LOL how pathetic..Just tell yourself none of them come to the conclusions..That is called “Make Believe”..
GregT on Wed, 21st Feb 2018 5:37 pm
“Based upon the HSBC report and the IEA, the End of Oil Age will start around ~2020: there will be a dramatic economic depression due to exhaustion of cheap oil. This will cause a global economic collapse.”
Based upon my interpretations of the HSBC report and the IEA, the End of Oil Age will start around ~2020. I believe there will be a dramatic economic depression due to exhaustion of cheap oil. In my humble opinion this will cause a global economic collapse.
There, fixed it for you MM.
GregT on Wed, 21st Feb 2018 5:39 pm
HSBC Global Research is an investment advisor MM. The take away? Invest in oil and gas.
MASTERMIND on Wed, 21st Feb 2018 5:47 pm
Greg
Based on the report above.. You have twist everything around…And lie! You are pathetic! They are not an investment adviser they are the worlds fifth largest banking institution..Dont you ever get tired of using straw mans? And I noticed you totally blew off the IEA and their warnings as well. You are just like a climate denier! LOL
There are three classes of people in this world. Those who see, those who see when shown, and those who do not see..
-Leonardo Da Vinci
MASTERMIND on Wed, 21st Feb 2018 5:49 pm
As M. King Hubbert (1956) shows, peak oil is about discovering less oil, and eventually producing less oil due to lack of discovery.
https://imgur.com/a/6dEDt
IEA Chief warns of world oil shortages by 2020 as discoveries fall to record lows
https://www.wsj.com/articles/iea-says-global-oil-discoveries-at-record-low-in-2016-1493244000
Saudi Aramco CEO sees oil shortage coming as investments, oil discoveries drop
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-aramco-oil/aramco-ceo-sees-oil-supply-shortage-as-investments-discoveries-drop-idUSKBN19V0KR
Peak Oil Vindicated by the IEA and Saudi Arabia
The last law of nature says: that any creature that despoils and out-breeds its natural habitat will be culled to bring its numbers under control and restore a stable environment.
MASTERMIND on Wed, 21st Feb 2018 5:52 pm
Greg
Based on the MIT limits to growth models and the German Army peak oil study, this oil shortage will cause a global economic collapse..There I fixed it for ya.
http://sustainable.unimelb.edu.au/sites/default/files/docs/MSSI-ResearchPaper-4_Turner_2014.pdf
http://www.energybulletin.net/sites/default/files/Peak%20Oil_Study%20EN.pdf
GregT on Wed, 21st Feb 2018 6:07 pm
I’m beginning to think that you’re insane MM.
Lets try this again, shall we?
I have read all of these reports long before you linked to them MM. I opted out of my former career because I see extremely troubling times ahead. I peg a collapse at/or around 2025, give or take a few years. In that respect, you are preaching to the choir. Not exactly a brilliant thing to do.
You have come to the conclusion that a major global economic downturn equates to a human extinction event. Nowhere to run and nowhere to hide. The goons will hunt you down and have their ways with your daughters/wives etc. Mass starvation, every human social program ever devised completely collapsing in perfect synchronization.
None of your linked reports come to the same conclusions as you. I do not come to those same conclusions either.
If you have an opinion that you would like to make, and would like to provide direct quotes from others’ works that you believe back up your opinion, then by all means do so.
Own your own opinion, and stop misrepresenting other peoples’ work.
MASTERMIND on Wed, 21st Feb 2018 6:17 pm
Scientific American: Apocalypse Soon: Has Civilization Passed the Environmental Point of No Return?
https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/apocalypse-soon-has-civilization-passed-the-environmental-point-of-no-return/
Peer Reviewed Study: Society Could Collapse In A Decade, Predicts Historian (Turchin, 2010)
https://www.nature.com/articles/463608a
NASA Peer Reviewed Study: Industrial Civilization is Headed for Irreversible Collapse (Motesharrei, 2014)
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0921800914000615
The Royal Society: Peer Reviewed Study, Now for the First Time A Global Collapse Appears Likely (Ehrlich, 2013)
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3574335/
Peer Reviewed Study: Limits to Growth was Right. Research Shows We’re Nearing Global Collapse (Turner, 2014)
http://sustainable.unimelb.edu.au/sites/default/files/docs/MSSI-ResearchPaper-4_Turner_2014.pdf
Peer Reviewed Study: Financial System Supply-Chain Cross-Contagion: Global Systemic Collapse (Korowicz, 2012)
http://www.feasta.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/Trade-Off1.pdf
MASTERMIND on Wed, 21st Feb 2018 6:18 pm
Simple really….when the World Economy Collapses everything shuts down…the end… We’re talking about grids down all over the world and 7.5B people dropping like f*** flies in short order. The collapse will be absolutely horrible..There is no collapse or horror movie ever produced that has even come close to imagining what the collapse of BAU might look like. I’m talking about every corporation and every social program going bankrupt at once. I’m talking about people eating people. I’m talking about the Worst Catastrophe to ever happen in the history of mankind. Nothing has ever, or will ever come close….
The End of the Human Race will be that it will Eventually Die of Civilization
–Ralph W Emerson
GregT on Wed, 21st Feb 2018 6:29 pm
There are obviously very good reasons why so many here ‘affectionately’ refer to you as micromind, or muddymind.
You aren’t playing with a full deck dude.
Sissyfuss on Wed, 21st Feb 2018 7:32 pm
Greg, minimind is a linker, not a thinker.
makati1 on Wed, 21st Feb 2018 7:40 pm
I see the US economic/financial crash happening about 2019 to 2021. I think that TPTB want it to happen on Trump’s watch. That gives us another 2 1/2 years or so, unless the insanity in America gets deeper and they reelect him to another four years. OR, we have a world war. Always that black swan.
I do NOT see the ‘whole world’ crashing and burning at the same time. I see capitalist globalization contracting, leaving the US isolated and its wannabees scrambling to put out the financial fires the US started. Adjustment. Lower world GDP, but not the pain America will be going thru. Definitely survivable, IF you are prepared and NOT in the American gulag.
“Tomorrow you will wish you had started today”. Prep now!
makati1 on Wed, 21st Feb 2018 7:49 pm
BTW: Today is moving day! See you in the jungle! 100+ kilometers from Manila. Be back when settled in and connected again. (Sorry Davy, they DO have internet in the jungle. lol)
GregT on Wed, 21st Feb 2018 7:58 pm
“minimind is a linker, not a thinker.”
He does provide a decent quote now and then:
The End of the Human Race will be that it will Eventually Die of Civilization
–Ralph W Emerson
Notice how Emerson said ‘OF’ civilization and not the absence of civilization. I see it in much the same way. I don’t believe that we’ll ever wean ourselves off of fossil fuels, and civilization will ultimately cause environmental collapse.
Boat on Wed, 21st Feb 2018 8:42 pm
Mak,
With open windows how do you keep the mold and rust down. Does the humidity affect your electronics? Living in Georgia stuff on the back porch which was not climate controlled had these problems.
GregT on Wed, 21st Feb 2018 8:45 pm
“BTW: Today is moving day!”
Good for you makati!
GregT on Wed, 21st Feb 2018 8:53 pm
“Living in Georgia stuff on the back porch which was not climate controlled had these problems.”
That sounds pretty awful Boat. How did people solve those problems before climate control?
MASTERMIND on Wed, 21st Feb 2018 8:53 pm
Madkat
Too bad you won’t get any pussy where you are going! Or ever again for that matter…You fucking do gooder too bad you couldn’t do good in marriage…LOL
Cloggie on Wed, 21st Feb 2018 9:01 pm
“BTW: Today is moving day! See you in the jungle! 100+ kilometers from Manila. Be back when settled in and connected again. (Sorry Davy, they DO have internet in the jungle. lol)”
Good luck and time for a (virtual) house-warming party afterwards.
Cloggie on Wed, 21st Feb 2018 9:06 pm
“minimind is a linker, not a thinker.”
Siss always delivers with his well-crafted one-liners.
Cloggie on Wed, 21st Feb 2018 9:14 pm
“Simple really….when the World Economy Collapses everything shuts down…the end… We’re talking about grids down all over the world and 7.5B people dropping like f*** flies in short order. The collapse will be absolutely horrible..There is no collapse or horror movie ever produced that has even come close to imagining what the collapse of BAU might look like. I’m talking about every corporation and every social program going bankrupt at once. I’m talking about people eating people.”
Yes, indeed. On top of that your d*ck will fall off and you will get the plague and beriberi on the same day:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thiamine_deficiency
It’s going to be awfull.
MASTERMIND on Wed, 21st Feb 2018 9:20 pm
SIS
Time makes more converts than reason..
-Thomas Paine
MASTERMIND on Wed, 21st Feb 2018 9:25 pm
I am a linker because I am a man of reason..Unlike Madkat who have no evidence that the collapse will only be the west..
Cloggie on Wed, 21st Feb 2018 9:58 pm
“Unlike Madkat who have no evidence that the collapse will only be the west..”
The US will be hit most because it is still pretending to be a first world country, where in reality it is well en route to become a third world country.
https://youtu.be/aOMsCUeZ6rw
America will have to retreat to the B-league as a result of its decades long insane immigration policies.
makati1 on Wed, 21st Feb 2018 10:02 pm
Boat, if there is always air circulation, mold is not a problem. Being along the Pacific Ocean, there is always a breeze.
Rust is a problem if you do not keep bare ferrous metals painted. That happens anywhere. Just because it is a tropical climate does not mean it is more humid.
Average humidity in the Ps is 79%.
Average humidity for my home state, PA, is 78%
https://www.timeanddate.com/weather/philippines/manila/climate
https://www.currentresults.com/Weather/Pennsylvania/humidity-annual.php
Average temperature in the Ps is 82F/28C.
Average temp for PA is 54F/12C. I prefer to be warm, not cold. lol
MASTERMIND on Wed, 21st Feb 2018 10:04 pm
What insane immigration policy clogg? I think you are just a deluded idiot who falls for right wing media scaremongering.
https://imgur.com/a/tvKmo
makati1 on Wed, 21st Feb 2018 10:16 pm
FYI: “The United States attracts the largest number of immigrants in the world, who join the fabric of U.S. society through avenues such as citizenship, becoming legal permanent residents (LPRs), or by seeking humanitarian protection. This chart tracks the number of people who annually are granted legal permanent residence (also known as getting a green card). Green-card holders are permitted to live and work in the country indefinitely, to join the armed forces, and to apply for U.S. citizenship after five years (three if married to a U.S. citizen).”
They average ~1,000,000 ‘legal’ immigrants per year since 2000.
Only God knows how many illegals. lol
makati1 on Wed, 21st Feb 2018 10:25 pm
“Too bad you won’t get any pussy where you are going! Or ever again for that matter.”
Sorry it took so long to reply MM, but I had to get my breath back, I was laughing so hard at that remark. So uneducated and inexperienced in the real world!
I have been propositioned by so many females here that it is not funny/ Even my lady dentist wanted to hook me up with her 40 something cousin. Americans are in demand here for many reasons, so do not assume that I am celibate or without ‘companionship’. You would be dead wrong. Even my business/farm partner has an aunt that flirts with me. I am well taken care of in that department, thank you. You should be so lucky. LMAO