Register

Peak Oil is You


Donate Bitcoins ;-) or Paypal :-)


Page added on August 30, 2017

Bookmark and Share

I Was an Exxon-Funded Climate Scientist

I Was an Exxon-Funded Climate Scientist thumbnail

ExxonMobil’s deliberate attempts to sow doubt on the reality and urgency of climate change and their donations to front groups to disseminate false information about climate change have been public knowledge for a long time, now.

Investigative reports in 2015 revealed that Exxon had its own scientists doing its own climate modeling as far back as the 1970s: science and modeling that was not only accurate, but that was being used to plan for the company’s future.

Now, a peer-reviewed study published August 23 has confirmed that what Exxon was saying internally about climate change was quantitatively very different from their public statements. Specifically, researchers Geoffrey Supran and Naomi Oreskes found that at least 80 percent of the internal documents and peer-reviewed publications they studied from between 1977 and 2014 were consistent with the state of the science — acknowledging that climate change is real and caused by humans, and identifying “reasonable uncertainties” that any climate scientist would agree with at the time. Yet over 80 percent of Exxon’s editorial-style paid advertisements over the same period specifically focused on uncertainty and doubt, the study found.

The stark contrast between internally discussing cutting-edge climate research while externally conducting a climate disinformation campaign is enough to blow many minds. What was going on at Exxon?

I have a unique perspective — because I was there.

From 1995 to 1997, Exxon provided partial financial support for my master’s thesis, which focused on methane chemistry and emissions. I spent several weeks in 1996 as an intern at their Annandale research lab in New Jersey and years working on the collaborative research that resulted in three of the published studies referenced in Supran and Oreskes’ new analysis.

Climate research at Exxon

A scientist is a scientist no matter where we work, and my Exxon colleagues were no exception. Thoughtful, cautious and in full agreement with the scientific consensus on climate — these are characteristics any scientist would be proud to own.

Did Exxon have an agenda for our research? Of course — it’s not a charity. Their research and development was targeted, and in my case, it was targeted at something that would raise no red flags in climate policy circles: quantifying the benefits of methane reduction.

Methane is a waste product released by coal mining and natural gas leaks; wastewater treatment plants; farting and belching cows, sheep, goats and anything else that chews its cud; decaying organic trash in garbage dumps; giant termite mounds in Africa; and even, in vanishingly small amounts, our own lactose-intolerant family members.

On a mass basis, methane absorbs about 35 times more of the Earth’s heat than carbon dioxide. Methane has a much shorter lifetime than carbon dioxide gas, and we produce a lot less of it, so there’s no escaping the fact that carbon has to go. But if our concern is how fast the Earth is warming, we can get a big bang for our buck by cutting methane emissions as soon as possible, while continuing to wean ourselves off carbon-based fuels long-term.

For the gas and oil industry, reducing methane emissions means saving energy. So it’s no surprise that, during my research, I didn’t experience any heavy-handed guidance or interference with my results. No one asked to review my code or suggested ways to “adjust” my findings. The only requirement was that a journal article with an Exxon co-author pass an internal review before it could be submitted for peer review, a policy similar to that of many federal agencies.

Did I know what else they were up to at the time? I couldn’t even imagine it.

Fresh out of Canada, I was unaware that there were people who didn’t accept climate science — so unaware, in fact, that it was nearly half a year before I realized I’d married one — let alone that Exxon was funding a disinformation campaign at the very same time it was supporting my research on the most expedient ways to reduce the impact of humans on climate.

Yet Exxon’s choices have contributed directly to the situation we are in today, a situation that in many ways seems unreal: one where many elected representatives oppose climate action, while China leads the U.S. in wind energysolar powereconomic investment in clean energy and even the existence of a national cap and trade policy similar to the ill-fated Waxman-Markey bill of 2009.

Personal decisions

This latest study underscores why many are calling on Exxon to be held responsible for knowingly misleading the public on such a critical issue. For scientists and academics, though, it may fuel another, different, yet similarly moral debate.

Are we willing to accept financial support that is offered as a sop to the public conscience?

The concept of tendering literal payment for sin is nothing new. From the indulgences of the Middle Ages to the criticisms some have leveled at carbon offsets today, we humans have always sought to stave off the consequences of our actions and ease our conscience with good deeds, particularly of the financial kind. Today, many industry groups follow this familiar path: supporting science denial with the left hand, while giving to cutting-edge research and science with the right.

The Global Climate and Energy Project at Stanford University conducts fundamental research on efficient and clean energy technologies — with Exxon as a founding sponsor. Philanthropist and political donor David Koch gave an unprecedented US$35 million to the Smithsonian National Museum of Natural History in 2015, after which three dozen scientists called on the museum to cut ties with him for funding lobbying groups that “misrepresent” climate science. Shell underwrote the London Science Museum’s “Atmosphere” program and then used its leverage to muddy the waters on what scientists know about climate.

It may be easy to point a finger at others, but when it happens to us, the choice might not seem so clear. Which is most important — the benefit of the research and education, or the rejection of tainted funds?

The appropriate response to morally tainted offerings is an ancient question. In the book of Corinthians, the apostle Paul responds to a query on what to do with food that has been sacrificed to idols — eat or reject?

His response illustrates the complexity of this issue. Food is food, he says — and by the same token, we might say money is money today. Both food and money, though, can imply alliance or acceptance. And if it affects others, a more discerning response may be needed.

What are we as academics to do? In this open and transparent new publishing world of ours, declaration of financial supporters is both important and necessary. Some would argue that a funder, however loose and distant the ties, casts a shadow over the resulting research. Others would respond that the funds can be used for good. Which carries the greatest weight?

After two decades in the trenches of climate science, I’m no longer the ingenue I was. I’m all too aware, now, of those who dismiss climate science as a “liberal hoax.” Every day, they attack me on Facebook, vilify me on Twitter and even send the occasional hand-typed letter — which begs appreciation of the artistry, if not the contents. So now, if Exxon came calling, what would I do?

There’s no one right answer to this question. Speaking for myself, I might ask them to give those funds to politicians who endorse sensible climate policy — and cut their funding to those who don’t. Or I admire one colleague’s practical response: to use a Koch-funded honorarium to purchase a lifetime membership in the Sierra Club.

Despite the fact that there’s no easy answer, it’s a question that’s being posed to more and more of us every day, and we cannot straddle the fence any longer. As academics and scientists, we have some tough choices to make; and only by recognizing the broader implications of these choices are we able to make these decisions with our eyes wide open, rather than half shut.

DeSmog Blog



128 Comments on "I Was an Exxon-Funded Climate Scientist"

  1. Tom on Wed, 30th Aug 2017 9:21 pm 

    GregT;

    If you are a US citizen, then your way of life & standard of living is based upon preventing 3rd world countries from becoming developed to the point that they have to import oil.

    If you are an American, then all your privileges exists because those same privileges are denied to other people around the globe (usually in undeveloped countries).

    simple facts…

    I don’t like it either…

  2. Makati1 on Wed, 30th Aug 2017 9:22 pm 

    Tom, I hope you suffer in terrible pain for a very long time before you die. Then you can, maybe, relate to the world you plunder. YOU are why America is dying. YOU and the millions near the top that are nothing but spoiled, immoral brainwashed slaves to your greed. The rest of the world will cheer when the US goes down.

  3. Tom on Wed, 30th Aug 2017 9:28 pm 

    Agreed…

  4. Boat on Wed, 30th Aug 2017 9:52 pm 

    I don’t run any countries. I don’t set their regulations or hire their workers. I am but one in 320 million in just one country. Your hate loves to access blame a deflect your own shortcomings in others.

    Yea buddy, billions of people around the world want bad things to happen to me for building shyt in the area that they pay for. Remodels, barns, bath rooms and more. All the bad and none of the good of my country falls directly in my lap. Lol Read that in a book dude?

  5. GregT on Wed, 30th Aug 2017 10:35 pm 

    “Lol Read that in a book dude?

    No dude, what I read was this:

    “Third world countries. Let em die.”

    I have no respect for morally bankrupt degenerates like yourself. May you reap what you sow Kevin.

  6. Makati1 on Wed, 30th Aug 2017 10:57 pm 

    Boat, there is little ‘good’ left in America. That comes from an American who is ashamed of his country and its slothful, dumbed down, immoral, obese, greedy ‘citizens’. I left there to gain freedom and to enjoy my life in a new country that still is a democracy with real freedoms and no NSA watching and listening to everything I do.

    I have family in the US, but they too ignore my warnings about the future. Their indoctrination/brainwashing is too deep, I fear, so they will have to suffer along with the rest of you. I can do nothing to help them. It is enablers like you and Tom who keep the terrorist US alive. You too will suffer when it goes, and it will, and, it seems, soon. I will be watching the show from a safe place half way around the world.

  7. Boat on Wed, 30th Aug 2017 11:07 pm 

    greggiet,

    Look idiot, once again you didn’t grasp the comparison.

    Fine them, regulate them with triple hull storage shells. Thats when new laws happen and future fines happen, after a tragety. Part of fabric of life in the US. Third world countries. Let em die.

    The US adds regulations/safety and that drives up the cost after a tragedy. Third world countries save on costs and do not. That means they just let them die. That is not a wish but an observation. How many coal miners are moving to China for a safer work place. Now quit commenting on my posts when your to stupid to understand them.

  8. GregT on Wed, 30th Aug 2017 11:11 pm 

    Makati,

    There is a lot of good left in America, but as the old adage goes, one bad apple spoils the entire bunch.

    Unfortunately there are millions of Boats, Davys, and Toms in the U.S. I feel very badly for the rest of the people who do not subscribe to their exceptionalist points of view. If more people stood up to these assholes, the world wouldn’t be waiting with baited breath to see the demise of the entire U.S. Of A.

  9. Apneaman on Wed, 30th Aug 2017 11:23 pm 

    Boat, “Third world countries. Let em die.”?

    Have you looked outside recently? That complete fucking disaster is you crossing over to 3rd world. You are the one dying. Not new in the US. Nope, just makes you one of the most recent cities on the sacrifice zone list. It don’t all go at once. One neighborhood at a time – see Detroit, West Virginia, large swaths of New Orleans and on & on and on. Houston is going to be like Humptydumpty. It won’t all get put back together again. Y’all just stepped a rung or two down the ladder and not only will you never climb up again, you will continue to go down. Stubborn angry denial will make it go all the faster. It’s survival of the most adaptable and refusing to admit that what once worked, but no longer does, is classic collapse mentality. Everyone is going down. All that remains is in which order. The order is about the only thing the humans have any say in and even that’s not guaranteed, but the adaptable will have much better odds of lasting longer. Perhaps it’s better to go first instead of dragging it out?

  10. Makati1 on Wed, 30th Aug 2017 11:33 pm 

    GregT, there may be a few ‘good’ people left in America, but they are as guilty as the rest if they do not do something to stop their government. The French took to the streets and beheaded a lot of their problems. Too bad most Americans are sucking on the government teat and too greedy to do the same.

    “First they came for the Communists
    And I did not speak out
    Because I was not a Communist
    Then they came for the Socialists
    And I did not speak out
    Because I was not a Socialist
    Then they came for the trade unionists
    And I did not speak out
    Because I was not a trade unionist
    Then they came for the Jews
    And I did not speak out
    Because I was not a Jew
    Then they came for me
    And there was no one left
    To speak out for me”

    That is America today. Let someone else do it. Until…

  11. Apneaman on Wed, 30th Aug 2017 11:37 pm 

    Boat, what happens when they don’t pay the fines? You do. It’s called Superfund sites.

    “The NPL guides the EPA in “determining which sites warrant further investigation” for environmental remediation. As of February 27, 2014, there were 1322 Superfund sites on the National Priorities List in the United States. Fifty-three additional sites have been proposed for entry on the list.”

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Superfund_sites

    Superfunds sites are truly ‘just capitalism’.

    Just capitalism for the working man and ‘just socialism’ for the already super rich owners. That’s how it really works – privatize the profits and socialize the costs. Methinks Houston just got converted into the biggest externality in the country’s history.

  12. Makati1 on Wed, 30th Aug 2017 11:41 pm 

    Ap, most of the Huston area will never come back. It appears that only about 1 in 6 homeowners had flood insurance and that may not cover “Acts of God”. Maybe half, or more, of the population will never move back. The Huston tax base is decimated. The area loses skilled people. The area economy tanks. Stores close. Etc. That, as you said, is how America is becoming a 3rd world nation right under the noses of its citizens. And the hurricane season is only getting started. Another on is already on the way. This one from Africa, which will give it a lot of hot ocean to build to a … Cat 5? Is Texas the target again? We shall see.

  13. Boat on Thu, 31st Aug 2017 12:02 am 

    ape,

    When I was a kid our family was flooded. We moved and others moved into our old home. I learned to live on high elevation. While others in our subdivision flooded with 25 inches of rain our house was still 50′ above flood level.
    Hey if Cheeto wants advice you send him a list off grievances and tell him to contact me. I might add to that list and change the world. I’ll be waiting. Lol

  14. Simon on Thu, 31st Aug 2017 1:02 am 

    I find it amusing that whilst some people here are upset about the behaviour of others (the USA),a behaviour that could be classed as arrogance, some of the people on this board are espousing that the group of people(USA) changes its behaviour. Is this not arrogance ?

    The best you could say is, “I wish you would act the way that I wish.”

    hey ho

  15. Makati1 on Thu, 31st Aug 2017 1:17 am 

    Simon, I would call it necessity. The US is committing suicide by its arrogance, immorality and greed. The desire for the US to change is a normal response from rational people.

  16. Cloggie on Thu, 31st Aug 2017 1:41 am 

    “First they came for the Communists
    And I did not speak out
    Because I was not a Communist
    Then they came for the Socialists
    And I did not speak out
    Because I was not a Socialist
    Then they came for the trade unionists
    And I did not speak out
    Because I was not a trade unionist
    Then they came for the Jews
    And I did not speak out
    Because I was not a Jew
    Then they came for me
    And there was no one left
    To speak out for me”

    That is America today.

    You need a new text writer, makati. In America nobody is going after socialists (“feel the Bern”), trade unionist and certainly not after communists (neo-Trotzkyite neocohns) and their natural leaders the Jews, who run the place.lol. Since America is run by Jews, they want to conquer the entire world and the US per definition is a communist country (with a capitalist economic system). It is only the Constitution, or what’s left of it, that prevents the US from becoming a total tyranny yet. The coming armed standoff will be between Constitutionalist separatists and jewish-led neo-Bolsheviks who want to turn the US in a hardcore tyranny.

    Spare me the crocodile tears of this opportunistic pastor Martin Niemoeller, the one from the quote, who initially supported Hitler. And what’s so great about communists and Jews anyway? Study a little what they did to Russia and their tens of millions of non-communist victims. I couldn’t care less about 28,000 of them locked up in 1939. The US locked up 120,000 Japanese during the war.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martin_Niem%C3%B6ller

  17. Makati1 on Thu, 31st Aug 2017 1:54 am 

    Cloggie, the American Fascists are going after everyone who sees what they are doing to America and who are trying to warn others. It’s called ‘censorship’. TPTB are the American equivalent of the Nazi SS. There is no Constitution or Bill of Rights left in America. Nor are there many ‘freedoms’ left in Europe or Japan or Australia or New Zealand or any place that is a Western country. It is getting to the “There was no one to speak out for me” stage in the West. Wait and see. Denial doesn’t change reality, it only makes the consequences worse.

  18. Makati1 on Thu, 31st Aug 2017 1:56 am 

    Cloggie, your little piss ant country is going to dissolve in a puff of smoke when it all goes into the fan. But you will have a lot of company. All of the West will be in the same circle, heading down the drain.

  19. GregT on Thu, 31st Aug 2017 2:02 am 

    “I find it amusing that whilst some people here are upset about the behaviour of others (the USA),a behaviour that could be classed as arrogance, some of the people on this board are espousing that the group of people(USA) changes its behaviour. Is this not arrogance ?”

    Arrogance is one thing Simon, but when that arrogance crosses the line and espouses the mass murdering of other peoples, then it becomes an entirely different animal. And when that animal espouses an entirely different set of laws and rights towards those other peoples, then it becomes a question of morality. Pointing this out is not a matter of arrogance, but rather a matter of freedom, justice, liberty, and democracy.. Any free and democratic society that does not extend those same principals to other peoples, does not deserve to have them, and will ultimately lose them for themselves.

  20. GregT on Thu, 31st Aug 2017 2:08 am 

    “In America nobody is going after socialists (“feel the Bern”), trade unionist and certainly not after communists (neo-Trotzkyite neocohns) and their natural leaders the Jews, who run the place.”

    So who is ‘nobody’ going after in the US then Cloggie?

  21. Cloggie on Thu, 31st Aug 2017 2:22 am 

    Cloggie, the American Fascists are going after everyone who sees what they are doing to America and who are trying to warn others.

    You are just another shallow American with shallow understanding of history, totally brain-washed by the US empire, even if you think you are not. But regarding the history of the 20th century you are. You have only catched up with reality as far as the last 20 years are concerned.

    Even the encyclopedia of the NWO Wikipedia has to admit:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fascism

    Since the end of World War II in 1945, few parties have openly described themselves as fascist, and the term is instead now usually used pejoratively by political opponents.

    You haven’t a clue what a fascist is. It is simply an Italian authoritarian nationalist. But you use term pejoratively, like every American does. But try to let it sink in: there is nothing nationalist or “fascist” about present day America. There can’t be. Nationalism is about protecting the interests of an ethnic homogeneous group of people, who for many centuries live on a given territory, like the Italians in Italy. Italian Fascism in the early twenties was purely a reaction against the enormous communist threat that had gained a foothold in Russia, thanks to financial support from Jewish Wall Street circles and now threatened to engulf entire Europe. America no longer constitutes an ethnic homogeneous population and for that reason “fascism” can only mean white separatism (that could become very big in the coming years).

    I’m not a fascist for the simple reason that I’m a early 21st century liberal Dutchman, but I can very well understand why Italians of the twenties became Fascist. And on a humanitarian level they were not nearly as bad as the communists, who they opposed. But according to the logic of the American racial-communist empire we are supposed to have preference for the communists over the nationalists. Count me out on that one.

    Cloggie, your little piss ant country is going to dissolve in a puff of smoke when it all goes into the fan. But you will have a lot of company. All of the West will be in the same circle, heading down the drain.

    But your beloved Asia won’t, right? I still have a presumption that you could have a Filipino mother. It is the only way I can explain your excessive anti-American attitude. That you hate Washington, I can understand, I do that too. But you are wrong about the nature of Washington. The Bolsheviks had a police state too and used violence that vastly exceeded the level of violence in Italy or Germany.

    America is slowly turning into a neo-Bolshevik state, not a Fascist one.

  22. GregT on Thu, 31st Aug 2017 2:23 am 

    Would it be my father, the blond haired blued eyed liberal that became the brown haired blue eyed liberal later in life, my mother, the green eyed red headed conservative, my sister the blond haired blue eyed conservative, my other sister the red headed blue eyed liberal, or myself, the brown haired brown eyed centrist?

  23. Cloggie on Thu, 31st Aug 2017 2:29 am 

    So who is ‘nobody’ going after in the US then Cloggie?

    White nationalists. European-Americans in general.

    https://www.infowars.com/michael-moore-america-will-be-a-better-country-when-whites-are-a-minority/

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RC-Cqkq6zWc

    The entire officialdom of the US is announcing around the clock how great it would be if white Americans would be in the minority.

    Follow how the media are lying about the events in Charlottesville and who initiated the violence.

    It will be the same like in Soviet Russia, where the majority was terrorized by a minority of fanatical communists. These “antifa” clowns are the shock troops of the US deep state. The media will never condemn the hyper-violent antifa, but will go berserk against white interest groups.

  24. Cloggie on Thu, 31st Aug 2017 2:32 am 

    Would it be my father, the blond haired blued eyed liberal that became the brown haired blue eyed liberal later in life, my mother, the green eyed red headed conservative, my sister the blond haired blue eyed conservative, my other sister the red headed blue eyed liberal, or myself, the brown haired brown eyed centrist?

    Eventually they will go after them, yes, the silent majority, once they open their mouths. They are white, hence they need to disappear, preferably race-mix with non-whites. Only then they will be recognized as good communists.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bDaKFE_J_ug

  25. Anonymouse1 on Thu, 31st Aug 2017 2:35 am 

    Cloggen-fraud, what are you still doing here? Off to the kibbutz you go. All the little jew-lets would love to hear your endless and incredibly boring (and repetitive tales) of the flying, driverless cars Yahweh promised would carry you and your people to the promised land, you know, Palm Springs.

    Good luck, and bon voyage, Cloggen-stein. Don’t come back, or write, ever. Its not necessary, really.

  26. GregT on Thu, 31st Aug 2017 2:47 am 

    So Cloggie,

    How do you figure, that all of these different groups, with the same common advisary, will ever conquer that advisary, if they continue to be in conflict with one another?

  27. Cloggie on Thu, 31st Aug 2017 3:24 am 

    How do you figure, that all of these different groups, with the same common advisary, will ever conquer that advisary, if they continue to be in conflict with one another?

    What do you mean, “common adversary”? They have no common (kosher) adversary. The kosher run deep state is the skipper of most non-whites and white leftists who do not care about preserving their own kind.

    This is the real coming conflict:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dag6L7tnCEo

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8hFRLbFaJEw

    White America and its growing resistance against Washington as personified by Trump, against the kosher deep state and its followers. Very much comparable with the situation in Russia-1917 and the civil war between the Reds and the Whites.

    You Greg (or Davy), won’t take position in this fight with your detached ecological fundamentalism and Davy will probably end up in Italy, with his Italian wife and new acquired Italian passport.

  28. Cloggie on Thu, 31st Aug 2017 3:34 am 

    Cloggen-fraud, what are you still doing here? Off to the kibbutz you go. All the little jew-lets would love to hear your endless and incredibly boring (and repetitive tales) of the flying, driverless cars Yahweh promised would carry you and your people to the promised land, you know, Palm Springs.
    Good luck, and bon voyage, Cloggen-stein. Don’t come back, or write, ever. Its not necessary, really.

    Anonymouse, I know that you are not the brightest bulb in the Christmas tree, but you manage to set new standards for certified stupidity. Calling me a “Jew” is so unbelievable stupid that it beggars belief.

    At least paultard calls me a Natzi. Now I’m neither a Natzi (authoritarian nationalist, cornered by international Jewry and its Anglo and Soviet tools), nor a Jew, but compared to you, paultard is a genius.

    Now go back to your Louis Farrakhan books and read them again, this time slowly.

  29. Davy on Thu, 31st Aug 2017 4:44 am 

    “Ap, most of the Huston area will never come back.”

    LOL

  30. Davy on Thu, 31st Aug 2017 4:47 am 

    “US is committing suicide by its arrogance, immorality and greed.”
    So is Anglosphere, Asia and Europe. Why not look in the mirror?

  31. Davy on Thu, 31st Aug 2017 4:49 am 

    “Nor are there many ‘freedoms’ left in Europe or Japan or Australia or New Zealand or any place that is a Western country.”

    And there is freedom in Asia? LMFAO at a stupid old man

  32. Davy on Thu, 31st Aug 2017 4:52 am 

    geeze the nightly news needs help

  33. Makati1 on Thu, 31st Aug 2017 5:01 am 

    Davy, you are slipping into a world where only you exist. No rebuttals, only putdowns and name calling. It’s called insanity. Another virus spreading in America.

  34. Davy on Thu, 31st Aug 2017 5:09 am 

    “Davy, you are slipping into a world where only you exist. No rebuttals, only putdowns and name calling. It’s called insanity. Another virus spreading in America.”
    What’s da madder makat, am I having an effect on your rotten personality. I will make sure every one of your erroneous, nasty, and misguided comments gets called out. I will do this every day until you are gone. Being 75 and no healthcare that might not be long.

  35. Dredd on Thu, 31st Aug 2017 5:23 am 

    Denialism is a result of moral failure.

  36. Makati1 on Thu, 31st Aug 2017 5:45 am 

    Tut tut Davy, such language. BTW: I am not 75 nor am I in any danger of dying in the foreseeable future. No health problems. If you are healthy, you do not need doctors or “sickcare” like those stuck in America eating GMOs and enjoying the stress of just existing there. MY allergy meds cost $3 per month. I doubt that is going to break, my piggy bank. Oh, and I take a vitamin/mineral tab every day for another $3 per month. I spend more than that on coffee. LOL

  37. Davy on Thu, 31st Aug 2017 6:08 am 

    Oh, I am so happy for you makat, what a joke. You are human like the rest of us. When we get old we die. Get a grip. You do admit you are almost 75 right? Do I need to google the board and show where you have said your age? Stupid old man lusting for the fountain of youth. I know growing old is not for sissies and you are a sissy.

  38. Anonymouse1 on Thu, 31st Aug 2017 6:19 am 

    Cloggen-fraud, I found a site for you where you can keep up with all the latest trump gaffs and gossip. A place you can interact with others that actually give a shit about what Ivanka is wearing on president dumbldorfs various overseas trips. Now the people there don’t exactly have the highest IQ’s, even by amerikan standards, so you aren’t going to have any difficulties fitting right in, whatsoever.

    http://www.nationalenquirer.com/photos/president-donald-trump-deporting-criminals/

    Who knows, some of them might even find your boring, repetitive bullshit mildly interesting. And you’ll REALLY like it there CLoggen-stein, if only because unlike most of us here, the readership(and the owners even) are not really into fact-checking. Its just not a ‘thing’ with them. You know, just like you, cloggen-fraud.

    Off you go now….

  39. Darrell Cloud on Thu, 31st Aug 2017 7:56 am 

    The chattering class to which we all have a membership is indicative of the final stages of empire. A fascinating read on this can be found in The Fate of Empires by Sir John Glubb. https://www.docdroid.net/5CdrehR/the-fate-of-empires-by-sir-john-glubb.pdf

    His review of empires beginning with Assyria in 612 B.C. and ending with Britain in 1950 A.D. concludes the average life expectancy of an empire is approximately 250 years. During that 250 year life cycle, an empire goes through six stages of development. These stages are defined as The Age of Pioneers (outburst), The Age of Conquests, The Age of Commerce, The Age of Affluence, The Age of Intellect and finally The Age of Decadence.

    Based on our central focus on hedonism, it would be fair to say that the United States and much of Western Europe have entered the final stage of empire. One of the curious observations that Glubb made was the fact that in the final stages, the founding population became the minority within the capital city. They were displaced by foreigners. In the process the capital became more cosmopolitan and abandoned the mores and religion of the founding population. The founding population in turn fled to the hinterlands and the fringes of the empire. There in fly over country the founding population remained in the majority. This is why at the end of empire, the center of Roman and Greek knowledge fled to Ireland.

    Here in the United States, if you look at a county by county 2016 election map, you see that the city centers are dark blue and the surrounding counties are bright red. Had it not been for the brilliance of the Electoral College, these bright blue urban centers would have completely disenfranchised the rural minority.
    The civil war that is currently taking place in the U.S. is not state against state. It is urban against rural. The foreign born metropolitan populations of the city centers find themselves at odds with the descendants of the founder population residing in fly over country.

    Never before in the history of man, have urban centers been so precarious in their position. Historically food, fuel and water have always flowed from the countryside into the city centers. Oxcarts and sailing ships were the main modes of transport. What is different this time is the total dependence on petroleum based transport and electricity. Electricity is the Achilles heel of the system. Shut down the grid and the whole system falls apart.

    Shutting down the grid is simply an issue of motivation. A group of guys with a truck load of fertilizer or a hand full of battle rifles can take out a hand full of substations and it is lights out. Watch Texas as the full impact of this storm plays out. It is a preview of collapse.

  40. GregT on Thu, 31st Aug 2017 9:57 am 

    Thanks for the link Darrell. Interesting read.

  41. Kenz300 on Thu, 31st Aug 2017 11:28 am 

    How Exxon & The Koch Brothers Have Funded Climate Denial – YouTube
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qXm6ihnWN4A

    The Kochs Are Plotting A Multimillion-Dollar Assault On Electric Vehicles
    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/koch-electric-vehicles_us_56c4d63ce4b0b40245c8cbf6

    Inside the Koch Brothers’ Toxic Empire | Rolling Stone
    http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/inside-the-koch-brothers-toxic-empire-20140924?page=2

  42. Davy on Thu, 31st Aug 2017 12:07 pm 

    “Based on our central focus on hedonism, it would be fair to say that the United States and much of Western Europe have entered the final stage of empire.”

    What complicates this whole discussion is the nature of globalism today. You can’t compare previous civilizations now in the same way to today’s world. Yes there are some similarities but you can’t draw good conclusions because of the vast differences in today’s world to just 100 years ago. The US Empire is over. It was over the day the US walked into Iraq. We are now a multipolar world with vestiges of a too brittle to change globalism. We are no longer nations that have empires. We are now empires that span nations and within nations. It is far too complicated today to compare previous civilizations that were elementary in construction.

  43. GregT on Thu, 31st Aug 2017 12:23 pm 

    Out of the ashes will arise a new empire. It is just basic human nature. What that empire will look like, or how far reaching it will be, remains to be seen. If the last empire does not go down in a blaze of glory, or destroy what remains of the natural biosphere, my bet is on China.

  44. Hello on Thu, 31st Aug 2017 12:31 pm 

    >>>>> my bet is on China

    USA/europe will go down because of resource/energy shortages. If this is the case the rest of the world won’t be in much better shape. So there won’t be a follow empire for a long time. First comes the dark ages for several centuries.

  45. GregT on Thu, 31st Aug 2017 12:32 pm 

    “The new conquerors are normally poor, hardy and enterprising, and above all aggressive. The decaying empires that they overthrow are wealthy but defensive minded.”

    Sounds about right……

  46. GregT on Thu, 31st Aug 2017 12:35 pm 

    I would be extremely surprised if the current empire does not go out in a ‘blaze of glory’. It’s been trying it’s best to get a war started already, and it does not have the means by which to win that war.

  47. Simon on Thu, 31st Aug 2017 12:45 pm 

    Greg and Mak

    You are using the word Morals as if it is an objective value, I am afraid it is entirely subjective.

    You guys are actually as bad as the americans you despise, you are using words like morals and good and bad to try to enforce a mode of conduct you find pleasing on other people …. for shame 🙂

  48. GregT on Thu, 31st Aug 2017 1:30 pm 

    Simon,

    I live in Canada. Canada is for all intents and purposes an extension of the USA. I do not despise Americans, I do however despise warmongering, and mass murder. I consider that to be bad. YMMV.

  49. GregT on Thu, 31st Aug 2017 1:33 pm 

    And Simon,

    I consider the rights of other peoples to self determination, and peace on earth, to be pleasing.

  50. GregT on Thu, 31st Aug 2017 1:36 pm 

    And one more thing,

    I do not consider China rising up as the next world empire, to be in any way a good thing.

Leave a Reply

Your email address will not be published. Required fields are marked *