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The Seneca Cliff of Energy Production

The Seneca Cliff of Energy Production thumbnail

The graph above was created by Gail Tverberg on her blog “Our Finite World“. It is, clearly, another case of what I called the “Seneca Cliff” (from the Roman philospher who said “the road to ruin is rapid). The Seneca Cliff takes this shape, when generated by a system dynamics model:

Gail’s forecast of the future of energy production is not the result of a the same model I developed, but the reasons behind the steep decline are the same. Gail explains it in a post of hers as:

All parts of our economy are interconnected. If parts of the economy is becoming increasingly inefficient, more than the cost of production in these parts of the economy are affected; other parts of the economy are affected as well, including wages, debt levels, and interest rates.

Wages are especially being crowded out, because the total amount of goods and services available for purchase in the world economy is growing more slowly. This is not intuitively obvious, unless a person stops to realize that if the world economy is growing more slowly, or actually shrinking, it is producing less. Each worker gets a share of this shrinking output, so it is reasonable to expect inflation-adjusted wages to be stagnating or declining, since a stagnating or declining collection of goods and services is all a person can expect.

At some point, something has to “give”.

Which is a good description of the mathematical model at the basis of the Seneca cliff idea. The burden on the economy of increasing costs becomes more and more heavy in times of diminishing returns (or, as Gail says, increasing inefficiency, which is the same). At some point, something “gives” and the whole thing comes down. Seneca rules.

Cassandra’s legacy by Ugo Bardi



30 Comments on "The Seneca Cliff of Energy Production"

  1. Mike999 on Fri, 9th Jan 2015 3:23 pm 

    What she’s explaining is the oil price bubble, and collapse, but forgot that there is a next bubble. Also, displacement of ICE vehicles with EV’s and the rapidly falling prices of solar and wind, alternatives now as cheap as coal.

    Why the rapid collapse in oil, the rapid drop in solar pricing. Solar now 5 cent per kWh across the bottom 10 southern states. Now, the redder the state, the more solar jobs will be lost, and the deeper the recession, but for the smart southern states There Will Be Jobs.

  2. Davy on Fri, 9th Jan 2015 3:46 pm 

    Mike, there is zero relationship between solar and oil. One is a liquid transport fuel the other a grid and end user electric power source. I am 100% for solar but let us not confuse and deceive ourselves that AltE will ever be more than a niche power source. We need every type of power source possible to negotiate the cliff ahead. Sadly nothing will mitigate the coming end of oil.

  3. Speculawyer on Fri, 9th Jan 2015 4:00 pm 

    So Gail thinks every fossil fuel AND nuclear AND renewables are all going to peak this year? Damn, Gail is really losing it. That is absolutely ridiculous.

  4. Davy on Fri, 9th Jan 2015 4:27 pm 

    Spec, if this economy shucks it all she wrote my friend. It is going to come down to economics at this point and things don’t look great. Gail is making a call that is possible IMO.

  5. GregT on Fri, 9th Jan 2015 4:32 pm 

    Spec,

    In case you missed it, here it is again: All parts of our economy are interconnected.

    Energy production is part of the economy.

  6. Mike999 on Fri, 9th Jan 2015 5:02 pm 

    Davy, you should be looking at what other countries are doing. Germany carbon fuel use is down, solar now 20-40% of it’s electric grid.

    Wind now displaces natural gas plants, saved consumers 2 Billion in additional charges in just 2 days in January, as the polar winds blowing down into the east coast doubled wind output.

    We’re seeing Gigawatt investments in India and China. China coal and oil imports are down. China shutting down it’s least efficient coal plants.

    EV uptake is increasing from 50%-100% per country.

    Solar will next year be cheaper then carbon in 42 US states.

    You may not know about the rapid advances in Solar, Wind, Ev’s and Batteries, but Saudi Arabia does.

    Solar counts for 50% of Clean energy investment:
    http://www.greentechmedia.com/articles/read/solar-accounted-for-nearly-half-of-global-clean-energy-investment-in-2014

    Also, storage solutions getting heavy investment, with a 25% drop in cost in one year.

  7. Speculawyer on Fri, 9th Jan 2015 5:08 pm 

    “Spec, In case you missed it, here it is again: All parts of our economy are interconnected. Energy production is part of the economy.”

    Uh . . . OK. So what is your point? Nothing in this words indicates massive doom. At least to most people.

    Meanwhile . . . in the real world . . . Nearly 3 million jobs. That’s how many positions employers added last year in the nation’s best year for job growth since 1999.

  8. J-Gav on Fri, 9th Jan 2015 5:49 pm 

    Mr Bardi is a clever fellow and remains attached to his ‘Seneca Cliff,’ a keystone of his thinking about where we’re going.

    It’s impossible to say he’s wrong because his “Seneca rules” is merely a restatement of the Law of Entropy or, if you prefer, the 2nd Law of Thermodynamics = (more or less) shit finds it easier to fall apart faster than shit finds it easy to come together.

    There is no doubt something to that. However, I wonder about the usefulness of that notion as a predictive tool in our present predicament. Determining exactly when, and just how bad, things will (soon?) get is beyond anybody’s reckoning as far as I can tell.

  9. Davy on Fri, 9th Jan 2015 6:01 pm 

    Mike, I don’t want you to think I am down on AltE. I am 100% for it. My point is what you described is all fine and dandy but it is up against limits of growth and diminishing returns. EROI growth is stalling compared to what is needed to grow AltE to the majority power source. Systematic integration is dropping with grid integration having limits and storage unimpressive. PO will reduce capex potential from an economic contraction that will hammer investment in AltE. AltE is too complex for the coming contraction to grow and breakout to make and support itself.

    There is no substitution for fossil fuels at this point. The energy intensity needed for hyper complexity that we have today is only through the result of the energy density and portability of fossil fuels. AltE is nothing more than a temporary bridge energy source. I pray much more of it will be invested in especially the low tech, dispersed, low cost, robustly reliable, and low complexity kinds. Good luck with your message and I hope you prove me wrong. Nothing would make me happier than to live in a shiny low carbon AltE world.

  10. Makati1 on Fri, 9th Jan 2015 6:47 pm 

    Some don’t seem to understand the FACT that the world economy determines the future. Not oil or alts or the dreams of techies. If you make widgets and need to sell them at $5 each to be able to make more widgets, and the economy tanks and no one can afford $5 widgets, it is game over for the widget maker. Or, if he has to sell 1,000 widgets per week and can only sell 600, ditto.

    Contraction of the world economy is already happening so there are fewer widget buys in the market. The emptying malls in the US are proof of this. It doesn’t matter how cheap solar gets if you cannot afford to buy the system. Or how cheap electric cars can be bought with government subsidy, if you cannot afford the payments.

    When the age of oil ends, it will be because it was not profitable to recover, not that there will not be any left in the ground. And when oil ends, so does the way of life the 1st world enjoys now.

  11. dave thompson on Fri, 9th Jan 2015 7:09 pm 

    http://sunweber.blogspot.com/2011/05/new-middle-ages.html

  12. GregT on Fri, 9th Jan 2015 8:38 pm 

    Good gracious. We’ve had this conversation so many times that it is becoming redundant. Is it so difficult to understand? Or is it that people are trying their best to not understand it?

    Gail’s graph above does not necessarily exactly reflect the reality of our situation. The peak could be this year, it could be 2016, or in my opinion it was really in or around 2010. It doesn’t really matter, and it really isn’t the point. The decline after the peak could also be slightly shorter or longer in duration depending on multiple different scenarios. The end result is always the same.

    Modern industrial society is fuelled by fossil fuels. We are not facing an energy crisis, we are facing a liquid fuels crisis. We will never run out of oil, we will run out of the quantity and/or the quality of oil useful to society. Electric power generation will not do for us what oil does for our economies, and electric power generation is a byproduct of fossil fuels usage. As is modern medicine, food production, resource extraction, transportation, manufacturing, the global financial system, and human population numbers.

    Infinite exponential growth in a finite environment is a mathematical and physical impossibility. Eventually we will hit limits to growth. Growth is not sustainable. We will either run out of useful resources, we will destroy the environment beyond repair, or both. It appears that we have chosen the latter. When growth ends, so do our financial systems, and with that modern industrial society.

    Save for perhaps a very tiny percentage of our populations with mental health issues, I don’t believe that anyone wants to see the end of civilization as we know it. What people fail to understand is that modern industrial society has been, and will be very short lived in a historical perspective. An extremely short period of time in the big scheme of things. My father grew up on a farm in Canada. As a youngster he had no running water, no automobile, no telephone, no plastics at all, and limited electricity. We have existed on this planet for tens of thousands of years without all of this ‘stuff’ and we lived comfortable, happy, healthy, and productive lives.

    Our situation is going to change dramatically. This year, next year, ten years from now, nobody really knows. But it is going to happen, and it is going to happen within the lifetimes of most, if not all of us on this forum. The opportunity is still available for those who decide to act in a proactive manner. Acting in a reactionary manner will not be pleasant, and probably not survivable for most people. Move away from largely populated areas, learn to be as self sufficient as possible, learn how to grow and preserve food, and get involved in a small local community.

    Time is running out.

  13. Perk Earl on Fri, 9th Jan 2015 9:03 pm 

    “When the age of oil ends, it will be because it was not profitable to recover, not that there will not be any left in the ground. And when oil ends, so does the way of life the 1st world enjoys now.”

    Well put, Mak. What some forget is cheap oil converted to high profits – now it’s the opposite and incrementally getting worse. The only question now is how bad can it get before some major economic dislocation occurs that cannot be corrected by central bank desperation policies? When it goes down for the count like it did temporarily in 08/09, there won’t be enough juice to jolt the sucker back into coherence and then contraction can no longer be avoided. Either you’re prepared to shift gears and hopefully muster a way to make it through the bottleneck, or you jump into the fray and run around like a chicken with your head cut off like most of the rest of your compatriots will be doing.

  14. Richard Ralph Roehl on Fri, 9th Jan 2015 10:04 pm 

    Stated below is the real nightmare. It is a monster locomotive that inexorably pulls humanity down a one way track toward EXTINCTION.

    Behold!

    Tens of thousands of heavily tattooed ‘children’ [sic] illegally cross the U.S./Mexican border EVERY month.

    Many of these alleged “undocumented immigrants” are pregnant… and each one shall drop 3 or more ‘anchor babies’ on U.S. soil.

    By 2050… the population in the continental United States will reach 500,000,000 sheeple (one half billion)… and by 2100 the population will exceed ONE BILLION Amerikan baboonies, the majority of them speaking Spanish as a first language.

    The Doctrine of Perpetual Growth is bizarre and utterly insane.

  15. Boat. on Fri, 9th Jan 2015 10:21 pm 

    Not true Richard Ralf. Population requires 1.9 units for sustainability. The US runs at 1.7. The growth in the US is controlled by legal immigration of over 1 million per year for decades. Some years much greater than that. Try Google

  16. Apneaman on Fri, 9th Jan 2015 10:23 pm 

    Not gonna happen like that Ralphy boy. Most of those people along with many Americans will be climate refugees up here in Canada by 2050 if not earlier. I’m still working on a derogatory handle to bark at y’all Yankees and Confederates when you come up here to “steal our jobs” use up all “our” clean water and try to fuck our women. I have my work cut out for me since white Americans have used up all the good immigrant and refugee put downs since their country’s inception. I’ll keep at it since I like to be prepared for every eventuality.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nW20EMJr6o4

  17. GregT on Fri, 9th Jan 2015 10:29 pm 

    Richard,

    The indigenous peoples of North America had a very good thing going here, before we came along and fucked everything up.

  18. Speculawyer on Fri, 9th Jan 2015 11:45 pm 

    Richard Ralph Roehl . . . that sounds pretty racist. If you don’t like the situation, the procreate more.

  19. Davy on Sat, 10th Jan 2015 6:59 am 

    Greg, your comment hit the spot above and yes it is redundant as many of my posts are. What is important is we stay on queue and do not weaken with the message. This is as much for others as ourselves. What we are facing is as challenging as has ever been faced in man’s history. I do not want to belittle other difficult periods. I am talking in general and in a macro sense. The extent of our overpopulation coupled with the carrying capacity overshoot places us in an awful position to hit limits of growth and diminishing returns. That is precisely where we are at. I think cusp is the best word for it:
    “Full Definition of CUSP: point, apex: as: a point of transition (as from one historical period to the next) : turning point; also : edge, verge ”

    What is more amazing is there is no historical context for the results of this cusp. Other periods had a trend this period has a cliff with darkness and an unknown bottom. We really have a range of possible scenarios playing out. This makes things exciting, hopeful, but also dark and brooding.

    I have mentioned before the doom message is solid among the believers. This is because reality is on our side. We have the benefit of science, history, and common sense. What could be more common sense than there are limits in a finite world? What is more apparent than every civilization that has ever been on this earth went through cycles of life and death. Our ecosystem demonstrates the cyclical nature of life.

    Greg, “yea-sa” there is redundancy but that redundancy is remaining on course. The scenario is developing so fast we must maintain our compass heading. The surreal part of this compass heading is BAU continues against all adversity. This is what amazes us doomers. How the Frig can something so screwed up manage to limp along? I try to relate to phase change of water and momentum of a large object. What is amazing about phase change is the time it takes to make the change but when that period of change happens it is swift. The momentum of a large object is also amazing how it can barrel through obstacles but then it doesn’t.

    I have been reading allot lately about the historical Alchemical spiritual science mainly in regards to the essence of time. One of the most spiritual aspects of man is the essence of time. Time is what is so important to us and so mysterious now. Man has a time value of existence. For us now do we have 3-5-10 years of normal or will we manage to get all the way out to 15? This is important because if we have 3 years before seismic changes occur then doom and prep is of the highest value. If our seismic changes are out 10 years or more our human time value is much different.

    The awful and magic position we are in is that at this point now there is no way to know how much time we have. The possibilities are too diverse. To the corns I say I don’t know when this will happen but I can tell you it is on its way and dooming and prepping is good risk management. We also know through science and history those places and activities which have little hope in a collapsed world. Why would you want to live in NY City or Las Vegas with collapse coming? Extend those circumstances to the rest of the world because these issues are common in our global world.

    I am not sure if there is any hope for a plan B. My thoughts keep coming back to a crisis, probably a liquid fuel crisis, just bad enough to change lifestyles and attitudes away from a train wreck. Any way I look at it BAU is finished and awful pain and suffering is ahead for many if not most. Yet, the degree and duration is debatable depending on enlightened actions and luck. I feel there is zero possibility of avoiding this cusp into an unknown. Some folks will be luckier than others. If you want to increase your odds then listen to us doomers and preppers otherwise if you remain a corn, friggen enjoy life fully and live large. Your days are numbered.

  20. karle on Sat, 10th Jan 2015 7:57 am 

    Mike, you wrote:

    “Davy, you should be looking at what other countries are doing. Germany carbon fuel use is down, solar now 20-40% of it’s electric grid.

    Wind now displaces natural gas plants, saved consumers 2 Billion in additional charges in just 2 days in January, as the polar winds blowing down into the east coast doubled wind output.”

    That is not correct. Here in Germany wind displaces gas, but not gas plants.

    When there is no wind, or a storm like today, wind turbine deliver nothing, and gas and coal run on full steam.

    More and more people begin to realize that wind and solar are useless for electricity.

    But still nature is getting destroyed like here in our area, check those terrible photos:
    http://kaufunger-wald.de/2015/01/05/eine-furchtbare-zerstoerung-gebilligt-vom-forst/

    The people who do that to nature are the same people that stop us from removing a small tree in our backyard since it could disturb a bird. Green fascists.

    I know some personally. They make so much money from the wind turbines that they dream of not having to work any more very soon.

  21. Davy on Sat, 10th Jan 2015 9:08 am 

    Karel, I am with you on the large scale complex and regional AltE. It would be far better focusing on small communities and end users with low cost, low tech, low power, and robust reliability. This must include attitude changes to accommodate the lifestyle changes this lower eroi technology requires. The large scale AltE people like Mike that see a shiny AltE world coming if we would just invest are deceived by technology, complexity, and substitution strategies. In reality nothing can substitute for the density and portability of fossil fuels “IN REGARDS TO” a hyper complex global interconnected world. That is the caveat. We can’t have a shiny AltE world and BAU.

    The greenies and the AltE people are just plain deceived by the same thinking economist have with growth. The problem with a switch to AltE and natural renewables found in earlier times is the transition from where we are today and where we need to be. This transition is a systematic collapse. We may not survive a systematic collapse. The overshoot of population and carrying capacity is so far off the charts as to limit any plan B effectiveness without collapse. We constantly get back to the Hirsh idea of we need 20 years are more to transition to post peak fossil fuel world. Include in this transition that this will not include BAU because without fossil fuels there is no BAU. Every indicator thus far points to no BAU without cheap abundant fossil fuels.

    Now with that said a new wind farm is better policy than a new football stadium. Currently the St Louis Ram owners are not satisfied with a recently built 15 year old dome stadium. This is the type of idiotic BAU thinking that has to stop. A wind or solar farm would be better investment from a “what benefits society” point of view. Now Karl you make a good point on the systematic disruption of the AltE into a nationwide grid so this could do more harm than good. This problem is an unfolding debate especially in Europe where many countries have achieve good AltE penetration. Without a robust storage system I fear economical AltE penetration is less than 20%. That will not help much long term. That kind of penetration will never achieve the breakout where AltE can support and replicate itself.

  22. GregT on Sat, 10th Jan 2015 11:34 am 

    Thanks for your post Karle,

    It is important for people to have some perspective from someone who actually lives in these places, as opposed to industry hype and MSM propaganda.

    I can understand to a certain extent why some people refuse to accept the gravity of our predicament. My sister recently completed a degree in environmental management. She spent five years studying everything from ocean acidification, climate change, and deforestation, to green building practices, alternate energy infrastructure, and waste management. I know that she ‘gets it’ because much of the course material that she was exposed to, she passed on to me. She doesn’t like to talk about what we both understand, and continues to pretend that the technology fairy is going to come along to save the day. When push comes to shove she concedes, and tells me that she understands the hopelessness of our situation, but she just doesn’t want to think about it. That being said, she has positioned herself by moving away from the city, her husband and herself have embraced gardening and food preservation, they have installed a solar system in their home, and they have cut back hugely on their personal consumption.

    I have learned that many people simply cannot handle dire news. They cling to any glimmer of hope, and will fight tooth and nail against anyone that threatens to shatter their illusions. While this may be good for self preservation, or some semblance of peace of mind, in reality it does nothing more than stop them from from taking proactive measures to mitigate the impacts of our approaching challenges.

    Solar, wind, hydro, geothermal, biomass etc. are all good things, and we should be building them out as much as possible while we still have the fossil fuels to do so, but they all have their limitations, and in no way will replace fossil fuels in electric power generation, never mind all of the other things that fossil fuels do for us.

    The challenges that we face are not going to be solved by ‘them’, our governments, industries, scientists, business leaders, etc., because they are all products of our current societal structure. It is ‘us’ that need to come up with solutions. Our top down systems are broken, our only hope lies in grassroots movements from the bottom up. The amount of energy available to society determines societal complexity. We are not heading towards a more energy intensive society, we are heading towards a vastly reduced energy future, and with that will come vastly reduced societal complexity.

    Alternate energy infrastructure can help us in our transition to the future, but they themselves are not in our long term future. We are going back to where we came from before we learned how to use fire to burn fossil fuels.

  23. Tom S on Sat, 10th Jan 2015 4:00 pm 

    Hi GregT,

    “Good gracious. We’ve had this conversation so many times that it is becoming redundant. Is it so difficult to understand? Or is it that people are trying their best to not understand it?”

    No, it’s not difficult to understand. Everyone else just sees through it. Your argument is so full of gigantic holes that it’s obviously incorrect. That is why the predictions keep failing.

    You’re wrong about almost everything you think on these topics. There are obvious substitutes for EVERY usage of fossil fuels, and there is VASTLY more time than is required for the economy to transition to them. That is why nobody who actually understands these topics is a member of this little doomsday sect.

    It should raise SERIOUS QUESTIONS in you, if almost all actual experts simply IGNORE these ideas. Bear in mind that being ignored by real experts is even worse than being refuted. Being ignored implies that real experts don’t even take these ideas seriously.

    …Many of you have already been here for 10 years or more, despite repeated and severely failed predictions. I think part of the reason you’re still here is because of the lack of falsifiable thinking. In another thread recently, I saw apnean write: “The predictions can fail a million times, and it makes no difference”, or something to that effect. That is a drastic lack of falsifiability, and I think it’s the reason you guys are still here.

    Most doomsday groups respond to failed predictions by evolving their ideas so that the ideas are unfalsifiable. This little doomsday group is no exception.

    “This year, next year, ten years from now, nobody really knows.”

    In which case, your theories fail the criterion of falsifiability and do not constitute a legitimate scientific theory. Also, it implies there can be another ten years of failed doomsday predictions, and you’ll still be here, provided you don’t die of natural causes first.

    GregT, what if you’re just wrong about all of this? What if you’ve been misled? What if you are not the gentleman-scientist who has everything figured out, but instead are the one guy who fell for this stuff when everyone else could see through it? When do you reach that conclusion?

    In another ten years, if civilization hasn’t collapsed because of peak oil, will you finally say “oops, I got everything wrong for the last 20 years?” Is there ANYTHING which could convince you that you’re wrong about these topics?

    I caution you strongly against reverting to the standard peak oil doomer response of pop psychoanalysis or hysterical name-calling. Instead of doing that, you should find out what falsifiability means and start asking serious questions about why the predictions keep failing and why all actual experts ignore this stuff.

    -Tom S

  24. Tom S on Sat, 10th Jan 2015 4:17 pm 

    Hi GregT,

    “I have learned that many people simply cannot handle dire news. They cling to any glimmer of hope, and will fight tooth and nail against anyone that threatens to shatter their illusions.”

    GregT, what if you’re the one who lives in an illusion? After all, it’s not “everybody else” who has gotten everything wrong over and over again for ten years in a row, like peak oilers have.

    Peak oilers have nearly a 100% failure rate of prediction going back many years. The only predictions they’ve ever gotten “right” were things which were inevitable for other reasons, such as “there will be a recession”.

    Since there has never been even a single correct, risky prediction from peak oil doomers, there can be no confidence in any of these ideas.

    -Tom S

  25. Tom S on Sat, 10th Jan 2015 4:26 pm 

    karle:

    “That is not correct. Here in Germany wind displaces gas, but not gas plants… When there is no wind, or a storm like today, wind turbine deliver nothing… More and more people begin to realize that wind and solar are useless for electricity.”

    That just doesn’t follow at all.

    Even if wind turbines aren’t running all the time, that doesn’t make them “useless” for electricity, because they’re generating electricity much of the time. They would only be “useless” for generating electricity if they never generated electricity.

    …If 75% of electricity were generated by renewables then Germany’s coal reserves would last for centuries. That is enough time to implement other technologies such as grid batteries or chemical storage.

    “Here in Germany wind displaces gas, but not gas plants…”

    Well, it’s gas we’re running out of (in the very long run), not gas plants. If we use gas only 5% of them time, when ALL renewables are aren’t generating and when and grid batteries are exhausted, then we have enough gas for a very, very long time.

    -Tom S

  26. Davy on Sat, 10th Jan 2015 5:30 pm 

    Tom, if I have been misled then no problem I love this life of getting back to solid values and as far away from sheepleness as possible.

    Your comment shows fear of what we are discussing and that tells me you are worried. If you stick around here you will convert. Everyone does eventually or you leave town like the NOo.

  27. GregT on Sat, 10th Jan 2015 7:03 pm 

    Welcome back Papa Smurf!

    Infinite exponential growth in a finite environment is a mathematical and physical impossibility. At least on the planet that humans beings live on. The planet Earth is bound to the laws of physics. Your world may be different.

  28. GregT on Sat, 10th Jan 2015 7:25 pm 

    Papa Smurf said:

    “There are obvious substitutes for EVERY usage of fossil fuels, and there is VASTLY more time than is required for the economy to transition to them. That is why nobody who actually understands these topics is a member of this little doomsday sect.”

    Except for perhaps the US Department of Energy?

    ‘Oil peaking represents a liquid fuels problem, not an “energy crisis” in the sense that term has been used. Motor vehicles, aircraft, trains, and ships simply have no ready alternative to liquid fuels. Non-hydrocarbon-based energy sources, such as solar, wind, photovoltaics, nuclear power, geothermal, fusion, etc. produce electricity, not liquid fuels, so their widespread use in transportation is at best decades away. Accordingly, mitigation of declining world oil production must be narrowly focused.”

  29. GregT on Sat, 10th Jan 2015 7:40 pm 

    But wait, more Smurfisms, with even more emphasis on non-reality:

    If 75% of electricity were generated by renewables then Germany’s coal reserves would last for centuries.

    International Business Times, January 7, 2015 18:00 GMT

    Third of oil reserves and 80% coal must be left in ground ‘to avoid dangerous climate change’

    http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/third-oil-reserves-80-coal-must-be-left-ground-avoid-dangerous-climate-change-1482388

    CBC, Jan 07, 2015 5:21 PM ET

    “Most of the Earth’s fossil fuels will have to be left in the ground if the world is to avoid catastrophic global warming, according to a new study published in the scientific journal Nature.”

    ht tp://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/climate-change-study-says-most-of-canada-s-oil-reserves-should-be-left-underground-1.2893013

    So you see Papa Smurf, here on planet Earth things are a little bit different than in your world. Human being have come to rely on energy sources that we can no longer afford to exploit.

    Human beings do not survive on ‘smurfberries’ and ‘sarsaparilla leaves’, like you do. Our predicament is a little bit more complicated.

  30. theedrich on Thu, 11th Feb 2016 5:38 pm 

    Just in case anyone is interested, Seneca’s original Latin (Epistula XCI {91:6} — with a slight modification of the orthography and punctuation by me) is:  « Esset aliquod imbecillitatis nostræ solacium rerumque nostrarum, si tam tarde perirent cuncta quam fiunt;  nunc, incrementa lente exeunt, festinatur in damnum. »
    My own translation is:  “It would be some solace for our weakness and our affairs if everything were to perish as slowly as it comes about.  (Right) now, growth proceeds slowly;  to ruin, it is a race.”

    It does indeed look like we are beginning the descent into the dreaded “bottleneck” of which biologists and paleoanthropologists speak.  We are not exempt from the laws of nature.

    As many have pointed out, after this ruination of civilization, we will never again rise to the present heights.  As Fred Hoyle once said, we had one chance, and once chance only, to attain a high, almost discontinuous uplift.  But the 19th-century, mechanistic materialism of scientists and intellectual elites, in reaction to an irrational Judeo-Christianity based upon lies, has thrown the baby out with the bath and denied the reality of the purposive inframind underlying nature.  The witch’s brew of a wishdream that all men be created equal and the slimy religious compassionism demanding the biological miscegenation of all human races into one grand, earth-destroying mudpie have now completed the crime against evolution.  The panicky refusal to recognize teleology in the rise of biological intelligence automatically results in a civilizational death march.

    Thus the goody-goodies and their associated hypocrites win.  The lower races are raised up and the highest one is pulled down.  And on the way to a population of perhaps ten billion mostly dark anthropoids, our space ship is depleted of resources and, after countless ages of struggle, the entire enterprise faces comparatively rapid extinction.  But the anti-Whites exult, since their real goal has now been reached:  the end of the civilization they hate.

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