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John Michael Greer, James Kunstler, Chris Martenson, & Dmitry Orlov 3-25-2017

This is a repost of a panel with John Michael Greer, James Howard Kunstler, Chris Martenson, Frank Morris, and Dmitry Orlov at the CFPUP Summit in Lancaster PA, on March 25, 2017.

33 Comments on "John Michael Greer, James Kunstler, Chris Martenson, & Dmitry Orlov 3-25-2017"

  1. Midnight Oil on Sat, 1st Apr 2017 12:17 am 

    When is marmico, Bensen, Burton, Bozo and Buster going to post a panel discussion?
    Now that would be entertaining!

  2. Cloggie on Sat, 1st Apr 2017 3:07 am 

    Five leftists and heroes from the blogosphere trying to explain why Trump won. Obviously the concept of “identity” is ignored. Everything is explained from “poverty”, “neglected Rust Belt whites”. To their credit they avoid mocking Trump.

    The panel consensus was that America is in decline and that now even white Americans begin to understand that. Self-described poverty expert (lol) Frank Morris interjects that coloreds have always known what poverty is. Laughter.

    There is only one real reason why America is in decline: changing demographics. Whites with their feminism cancer and declining male-hood (both go hand in hand) no longer reproduce in sufficient numbers to keep up with other ethnicities; additionally they are programmed with MSM egalitarian brain software that “everybody can be a 1960-style American” on the very moment they set foot on American soil.

    But these are considerations are five six progressives would not dare to touch.

    What was interesting though was that both Kunstler and Greer said that after Trump people could pop up who are really ugly.

    And that’s exactly right. Trump is still a representative of the unofficial capital of the US New York, with one-and-a-half leg in the old business establishment, who discerned a political “gap in the electoral market”. What will come after Trump is a “Hitler from the Heartland” with only one objective: escape from Washington, if necessary with violence.

  3. observerbrb on Sat, 1st Apr 2017 4:16 am 

    BW Hill right again.

  4. Davy on Sat, 1st Apr 2017 5:30 am 

    John Michael Greer, James Kunstler, Chris Martenson, & Dmitry Orlov. I have all these guy’s books from 10 or so years ago. It is time we have new blood in our extinction awakening. Time is speeding up and they are slowing down.

  5. twocats on Sat, 1st Apr 2017 7:54 am 


    i sort of had it on in the background, and interestingly, chris martenson mentioned this generational gap issue in about the 25th minute. so this is not just this panel, this is a cultural-wide phenomenon where young people are shut out.

    I find it really weird that people still mention demographics as a huge issue. (and of course, a “losing our masculinity” line is just telling me you are old, poor, not good looking, and/or resentful. join a gym! get some exercise!)

    Beyond the fact that we have machines and robots to do much of the most rigorous and intense labor (in the recent past), what makes money and is considered productive in our society is highly specialized and in the hands of mostly older people.

    The 50+ crowd is killing it in terms of income. Being 20 – 35 is a complete waste of time in most places of the world. You are just waiting for one of those few spots at the top to open up (by taking on 100’s of 1,000s in debt) or you are mostly giving up and riding it out in the great unwashed middle of surplus labor. Or you were passed over in this model and are retirement age with 30 years left of your life and pretty much nothing to do. it sucks, but none of that has to do with demographics and everything to do with how labor is organized.

  6. Davy on Sat, 1st Apr 2017 8:42 am 

    Two cats, yea, the young get the double tap of little affluence and no power AND a destroyed planet to look forward to. If I were young I would be one pissed off MF, yet, the young have their toys and society is telling them techno optimism will save the day. What kind of future is that! Not one I remember when I was young. I had the marvels of techno global growth and the false promise of sustainable development. We were all going to get prosperous together, what a joke that was.

  7. Ghung on Sat, 1st Apr 2017 8:46 am 

    Greer, last week:

    “Finally, this will be the last post of The Archdruid Report for a while. I have a very full schedule in the weeks immediately ahead, and several significant changes afoot in my life, and won’t be able to keep up the weekly pace of blog posts while those are happening. I’m also busily sorting through alternative platforms for future blogging and social media—while I’m grateful to Blogger for providing a free platform for my blogging efforts over the past eleven years, each recent upgrade has made it more awkward to use, and it’s probably time to head elsewhere. When I resume blogging, it will thus likely be on a different platform, and quite possibly with a different name and theme. I’ll post something here and on the other blog once things get settled. In the meantime, have a great spring, and keep asking the hard questions even when the talking heads insist they have all the answers.”

  8. Midnight Oil on Sat, 1st Apr 2017 8:53 am 

    But Davy they have at least a way out

    When they have a physical dependence on a drug, it’s primarily opiates,” Jacobs explains.

    Jacobs said according to 2013 statistics from 16-24-year-olds in state-funded treatment programs, 49 percent reported their drug of choice was heroin, 12 percent said other opiates, and 21 percent said alcohol.

    She said by comparison, younger patients had a higher rate of opiate use than older groups.

    Jacobs said there is also a great concern about the amount of opiates being prescribed in emergency rooms, and the Governor’s Task Force is working on new guidelines.

    Jacobs said according to federal statistics, four out of five cases of heroin addiction start with prescription medications.

    There are no solid numbers on recent use of opiates by teenagers, but across the state, there is a movement to tackle this problem.

  9. Cloggie on Sat, 1st Apr 2017 11:49 am 

    In the Netherlands government building effort is underway after the March 15 national elections.

    Unique aspect: a lobby of large Dutch corporations, lead by a previous PM is pressing for a “Green Government”.

    OK, they are still corporations and hence demand hundreds of billions for the coming 20 years:

    Names: KLM, Heineken, Philips, DSM, AkzoNobel, Unilever, Shell and Friesland-Campina.

    Primary goal: making the Netherlands truly sustainable via green energy and circular enterprises. Second motive: future profitability and export opportunities.

    There needs to be a national plan for energy and climate. It is remarkable that corporations are pushing this agenda.

  10. Apneaman on Sat, 1st Apr 2017 12:50 pm 

    Clog, no one here or On the entire N American continent gives two fucks about the Netherlands. DO NOT KNOW & DO NOT CARE & NEVER WILL. That’s why you Euro tards need to come here and none of us go on any Euro site except maybe English speaking UK ones occasionally .DO NOT KNOW YOUR LANGUAGES & DO NOT CARE. DON’T HAVE TO.

  11. Cloggie on Sat, 1st Apr 2017 1:05 pm 

    Clog, no one here or On the entire N American continent gives two fucks about the Netherlands.

    Why do you pretend to have a mandate to speak for all posters here? You don’t.

    I understand that I obstruct your relentless effort to peddle the message that there is no hope, but that’s your problem. You are just a little nihilist who can’t carry his own weight and can only yell “we’re fucked, we’re fucked”. That’s not how a master race talks, that’s how losers wine.

    Now why don’t continue to play weatherman and report that somewhere in Thailand a cellar has been inundated and that hence we are all f*.

    That’s why you Euro tards need to come here and none of us go on any Euro site except maybe English speaking UK ones occasionally.

    If I were you, I would not advertise too much that your brain is too small to encompass more than one language. You have this entirely provincial outlook that somehow backwater Alberta is the center of the world. The point is: it isn’t. Not in a long shot.

    Europe has always been the center of the world and will be again soon, now that the British volunteered to leave the white world. You are just a circumcised bush ranger. Got that?

  12. twocats on Sat, 1st Apr 2017 1:13 pm 

    ap – not sure why clog’s post got you so worked up. I’m interested in what’s going on in the world. I still appreciate hearing that some countries (at least rhetorically) care about the environment. whether its better than the “standing with a shotgun balls deep in pig guts” situation we have here, remains to be seen. but at least its different.

  13. Hawkcreek on Sat, 1st Apr 2017 1:38 pm 

    “Europe has always been the center of the world and will be again soon, now that the British volunteered to leave the white world. ”
    Now that is funny. And not too accurate, or smart.
    Looks to most that the Brits decided to leave largely because they wanted to stay more white than their Euro overlords approved of.

  14. DerHundistlos on Sat, 1st Apr 2017 3:59 pm 

    @ Midnight Oil

    I don’t discount what you are saying, but for many Americans the opposite scenario exists. An elderly Black gentleman who worked for us for many, many years was diagnosed with advanced lung cancer, a death sentence, yet incredibly, his oncologist refused to prescribe opiates for relief from the incessant pain so we visited his doctor together. The best I could do was obtain a 30 script for oxycontin- what a prick. Why? He was Black and poor. Fortunately, a doctor friend prescribed his narcotics thus allowing this poor soul to die with dignity.

  15. makati1 on Sat, 1st Apr 2017 5:45 pm 

    Power has moved West for millenia. China to Mesopotamia to Egypt to Europe to the US and now back to China. NOT to Europe as Cloggie dreams of. Europe seems to be entering a new Dark Ages, along with the rest of the Western countries and their wannabees. lol

  16. Davy on Sat, 1st Apr 2017 6:32 pm 

    You must mean this as power makati. I would call it handicap.

    “Does Size Matter? Visualizing The Population Of Every Country (In Bubbles)”

  17. makati1 on Sat, 1st Apr 2017 7:46 pm 

    Davy, population is not the only means to measure future ability to survive and thrive. The total picture includes food production and skills. Something that is going to be in very short supply in America when the SHTF and the oil stops flowing to corporate/private farms and the burbs. About 200 million people live in U$ cities and they will be coming to the farms for food when the trucking stops.

    The U$ is way over populated if you take away FF farming, especially corporate farming, and food, equipment and parts imported for that production. Less than 5% of U$ population are farmers and most are retirement age. That does not look good for the future. But you will never see (admit) the cliff edge you live on until you are pushed over it.

  18. Davy on Sat, 1st Apr 2017 7:59 pm 

    I would agree with you makati until a threshold level is breached then a large population becomes very dangerous. Asia is there now. I also agree with you on the US and when the trucks stop there will be pain and suffering but nothing can approach Asia with huge populations and destroyed ecosystems. I am sorry for you that you place your eggs in that basket.

  19. makati1 on Sat, 1st Apr 2017 10:38 pm 

    What “threshold”? Based on whose numbers? I think the U$ is past its “threshold” to carry its population without the input of 18 million barrels of oil per day to feed and support 320+ million people. The oily support will fail soon and then what happens? The Ps uses 400,000 bbls/day, mostly for airlines, boats, ships, and trucking, not farming.

  20. makati1 on Sat, 1st Apr 2017 10:46 pm 

    Davy, don’t feel sorry. You are the one in the pot of heating water, not me. You lump all of Asia in one small basket, when there si more diversity here than in all 50 states of the u?$ and skills that have not been forgotten but are used everyday to survive. 99% of Americans would not know how to survive 3 days without their ATMs and the local food market. Those are a luxury here that most never use.

  21. DerHundistlos on Sun, 2nd Apr 2017 12:51 am 

    What idiot decided to stop the recording at the most prescient point in the conversation?????

  22. Theedrich on Sun, 2nd Apr 2017 3:02 am 

    The Health Care fiasco is Tainteresque doom.  Those who are interested are aware that the bleating of the herd for universal, “free” and perfect medical salvation means lethal complexification for the nation.  It amounts to what Jonathan Gruber famously called “the stupidity of the American voter.”  The mendaciously titled “Affordable Care Act” is now cemented into American law and, like the student loan scheme with its tertiary-education beneficiaries, enriches the medical syndicates beyond belief.  A few Republicans blocked the attempt to prolong the ACA under another name, and were denigrated for doing so, mainly because their projected revision (“repeal and replace”) would never have passed the Senate with the cuts they demanded.

    The ACA Ponzi scheme, with which a Jew-backed Negro kingpin entrapped the nation, is only one more step into the quicksand of civilizational catastrophe.  It adds to the insuperable debt caused by having almost half of the nation on some type of welfare, by a rotting physical infrastructure, by insane foreign military adventures, by unhinged political judges issuing legislatorial decrees which defy facts of any type, and by various owed sums which can never be repaid.

    In the case of the sob-story-based promise of eternal life for all sentient beings, the problem is made utterly intractable by the fact that the medical industry has no option but to charge exorbitant fees for bandaids because of the exorbitant costs of everything involved with it:  the Congress-bribing tort lawyers who bring absurd lawsuits against doctors and demand grotesque punishment rewards for trival booboos, the medical education scheme, the drug/narcotics companies, the insurance companies, and on and on.  If any single one of these “Leonardo Sticks” is pulled out of the tottering idiotic complex, the entire structure will collapse.  Furthermore, the complexity must continue growing in order to avoid implosion.

    All of the legislators and politicoes know this fact, but they are themselves ensnared in the same suicidal dance.  This is probably the real reason why the Demonic Party and its MSM shills, including RINO obsessives such as Senator John McCain, are pushing for war with Russia.  For war will allow them to take savage measures that are impossible in a peacetime governed by a blind herd.

  23. Davy on Sun, 2nd Apr 2017 4:53 am 

    Makati as usual you are in denial of hard numbers with soft personal emotions. No I don’t deny what I face. I have many worries. My local and region face many issues. I talk about these. You never discuss your risks. It is always someone else who is at risk. You live within the gauntlet of death and choose to be a braggart and attack other while you “splain” away your risk.

  24. Cloggie on Sun, 2nd Apr 2017 5:30 am 

    ap – not sure why clog’s post got you so worked up.

    Apneaman hates incursions of Europeans into North America, into what he, not entirely without merit, considers as his territory. He knows his ethnic group never had a chance to take over Europe with their communist parties (well, not from the inside at least)…

    Here Swedish cabinet ministers openly mocking Trump:

    And here the very same Swedish women creeping for Muslims in Iran:

  25. Cloggie on Sun, 2nd Apr 2017 5:33 am 

    Mixed up posts; the content begin from “Here Swedish…” belonged in a different post.

    My apologies.

  26. makati1 on Sun, 2nd Apr 2017 6:04 am 

    Davy, you want to believe that other places are worse than the U$. So be it. I cannot change your mind. But you are so full of U$ propaganda that you will never see the real world. You live in the backwater flyover America that is being ignored by the powers that be, for now. Losing your freedoms one at a time while your buying power declines day by day. Thanks to the exchange rate, my buying power increased this year way past the inflation rate here.

    No I do not read your long rants. You use a lot of words to say little. No fact or references for the most part. Just Davy’s negative view of the rest of the world with some hopium thrown in. Asia is NOT as portrayed in U$ MSM sources. Come and visit and see for yourself. Get off the tourist trail and experience the real world.

    I DO know America. All too well. I decided that here in the Ps is the best place to be while the U$ collapse’. It is a Christian, English speaking nation between the West and East and moving more East every day. A good thing. Asia is the future, if the world survives the Empire’s death throes. A nuclear war is getting more and more likely every day as the insane DC mafia gets more and more desperate.

    I am lucky in that I am not tied to anything in the U$ other than family, and they are so scattered across the U$ that I would not see them anyway, if I lived there. No debt. No taxes. No slavery to the system. Yes, I get S.S. but I can do without that when it ends. I am prepared for that eventuality. It is only a matter of time. Good luck on the farm. At least you may be eating after the SHTF. So will I.

  27. Cloggie on Sun, 2nd Apr 2017 6:31 am 

    Hawkcreek says Now that is funny. And not too accurate, or smart.
    Looks to most that the Brits decided to leave largely because they wanted to stay more white than their Euro overlords approved of.

    That’s the general misconception in Britain that prefers to blame the EU for third world immigration. Nothing could be further from the truth. The EU is indeed responsible for 3 million Europeans migrating to Britain, people who btw generally work and pay taxes.

    But the fact that London is now majority non-white has nothing to do with the EU but everything with New Labour:

    If the Brexit deal will contain that continental Europeans will have to leave Britain, London will rapidly become even darker than it already is.

    And it is the work of British politicians only.

  28. Cloggie on Sun, 2nd Apr 2017 6:52 am 

    Makati says Power has moved West for millenia. China to Mesopotamia to Egypt to Europe to the US and now back to China. NOT to Europe as Cloggie dreams of. Europe seems to be entering a new Dark Ages, along with the rest of the Western countries and their wannabees. lol

    Have you ever been to Europe recently? If not, study the lists of towns where the quality of life is the highest: no US, but no Asian city either:

    7 European, 1 Canadian, I Australian and 1 New-Zealand.

    Global minimum wage distribution:

    (converted in euro)



    China is nowhere near taking over from Europe in terms of income per capita.

    Europe is the “continent” that has the most future oriented ideas about sustainable living and lives up to those ideas. China tries to keep up with Europe and is doing a remarkable job, but is severely handicapped by its too large population. Trying to increase wealth for the huge Chinese population and at the same time fight environmental deterioration are conflicting goals. And besides, China may produce at lot, but most is low complexity Walmart stuff. They still can’t produce for instance a globally successful car like the Koreans can.

    Russia is patiently waiting for the end of the American Era so it can apply for full membership of Europe, like it has aspired to do for centuries since Peter the Great. EU + Russia is more than enough to balance China.

    This is the future:

    Greater Europe and China dominating in a multi-polar world.

    And there is no need for Europe and China to become enemies if they agree on a post-ideological world, based on identitarianism and ancient traditions (Christianity, Islam, Confucianism, etc.), replacing the ideologies of 20th century communism, liberalism and eternal material progress.

    But yes, the center of political gravity will move from North-America back to Eurasia.

  29. Davy on Sun, 2nd Apr 2017 6:58 am 

    “Davy, you want to believe that other places are worse than the U$.”
    BS, makti, I discredit extremist like you who only discuss the US problems. I routinely talk about my problems. That is what rational people do when they want to find answers. You are not rational you are delusional. You want to talk away your problems and talk up yourself then you talk down others. There is a word for that psychopath. Some like you here because this is an anti-American site. You like to be popular that is why you are here.

    “No I do not read your long rants. You use a lot of words to say little.”
    Makti, have you ever analyzed your rants. You write as much as I do but you say nothing in multiple little comments on people like boat. You have your buddies here you seek support from because of your very lonely life. You cut people down and talk yourself up in a redundant copy past format. You try to be the authority telling people they are right or wrong. Saying anything about anything requires more than a few lines. The reason you never say anything at length is because it is quite difficult to lie for a very long stretch and not look like a fool so what you do is little snippets. You do long extended copy and pasting of headlines and links without explanations that are more like a Kenz dumps.

    “Thanks to the exchange rate, my buying power increased this year way past the inflation rate here.”
    Like I said, you are a braggart makati. So what about your buying power when all you get is a small social security stipend. LOL and you brag about that like a millionaire…millionaire wanna be.

    “Asia is the future”
    Yea, makati, the first place for collapse. What a wonderful future. Populations levels are the BEST indicator for a location of the next collapse and you are right in the middle of it.

    HOWS THE FANTASY FARM makati. WHEN IS THE LAST TIME YOU HAD YOUR HANDS IN DIRT? Can you hear me anything above the drone of noise of the 20MIL people bellow your 27th floor in the center of Manilla? You talk about a sanctuary and a refuge but you are in the jaws of death waiting to be some stew meat for a group of young Filipinos. LOL

  30. Cloggie on Sun, 2nd Apr 2017 7:05 am

    Britain 2016; 90k praying in Birmingham and 25k in London. These scenes have not yet arrived to continental Europe yet and perhaps never will. Populism is possibly too strong there; populism in the UK of the UKIP variety is mainly directed against the EU. Farage always kept the European populists at a distance as “too extreme”:

    Recently he has warmed up to Marine le Pen, but only for the purpose of trying to initiate a Frexit.

    The BNP is nowhere in Britain. The Brits simply lack the will to defend themselves. Let them die in peace and submit to the Muslims and become the next Al-Andaluz. The Houses of Parliament will probably be the Great Mosque of London by 2030 on orders of major Khan.

  31. makati1 on Sun, 2nd Apr 2017 7:57 am 

    Dream on Davy. You have no idea what population means until it hits you in the face. Wait and see. The U$ is NOT self sufficient in anything these days and never will be again. Too many greedy, obese, armed, fruitcakes running around there to be safe when the SHTF. Not to mention an insane government leadership. A growing suicide rate. Increasing drug use. And a crumbling infrastructure. Third world in all but name.

    My farm is as real as yours. Maybe more so as you probably have huge debts to pay and are a slave to the IRS. I’m free. You never will be.

  32. Davy on Sun, 2nd Apr 2017 8:25 am 

    Yadda, yadda, Makati on everything including the fantasy farm you give $2 a day to. That’s a makti style farm. Live in his cheap club med apartment with a friend with benefits and talk about the farm over beer by the pool. Are you top bunk or bottom? Donating $2 a day to a fantasy farm is not farming. I watch you very closely and I know you have not been to fantasy acres in over a year. No internet on the farm per your words. You have been here everyday except for you high carbon trip to the US. Lol, you are so paranoid that you didn’t even check in with your friends here while in the US. Afraid Makati, that is the story of your life running away from the fear of dying. How old do you think you will make it to? Last you posted it was 90 or better. Yea sure, who is going to wipe your ass in 10years at 85? Double lol dumbass.

    I agree with what you say on the US. So what’s your point? I still insist population size is the number one killer variable and your club med is off the friggen charts Makati. I have plenty to worry about myself. This site specializes in anti-American articles and a significant amount of people posting are anti-American. There is no need for me to be redundant on what I face. I am not a lying coward who can’t achnowledge the obvious like you.

  33. Cloggie on Sun, 2nd Apr 2017 8:29 am 

    Only very few here speak German, but I post it anyway to illustrate the mood in Germany:

    Representatives of the media and politics elite assembled to talk about the “Nervous Republic”. The third from the left, Frauke Petry of the populist AfD, is the only “black sheep”.

    Core theme: the German elite is very “nervous” about the hostile reaction from the German population against the elite supported immigration policies.

    The inducement for the panel discussion was the recent documentary “The Nervous Republic” which paints a dark picture of the mood in Germany:

    The situation is comparable with that in Easter Europe shortly before 1989. The coming Soviet style collapse of the US global empire will go hand in hand with the collapse of the multicult 1968 regimes in Europe.

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