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Gail Tverberg: Understanding Our Pandemic – Economy Predicament
The world’s number one problem today is that the world’s population is too large for its resource base. Some people have called this situation overshoot. The world economy is ripe for a major change, such as the current pandemic, to bring the situation into balance. The change doesn’t necessarily come from the coronavirus itself. Instead, it is likely to come from a whole chain reaction that has been started by the coronavirus and the response of governments around the world to the coronavirus.
Let me explain more about what is happening.
[1] The world economy is reaching Limits to Growth, as described in the book with a similar title.
One way of seeing the predicament we are in is the modeling of resource consumption and population growth described in the 1972 book, The Limits to Growth, by Donella Meadows et al. Its base scenario seems to suggest that the world will reach limits about now. Chart 1 shows the base forecast from that book, together with a line I added giving my impression of where the economy really was in 2019, relative to resource availability.
Figure 1. Base scenario from 1972 Limits to Growth, printed using today’s graphics by Charles Hall and John Day in “Revisiting Limits to Growth After Peak Oil,” with dotted line added corresponding to where the world economy seems to be have been in 2019.
In 2019, the world economy seemed to be very close to starting a downhill trajectory. Now, it appears to me that we have reached the turning point and are on our way down. The pandemic is the catalyst for this change to a downward trend. It certainly is not the whole cause of the change. If the underlying dynamics had not been in place, the impact of the virus would likely have been much less.
The 1972 model leaves out two important parts of the economy that probably make the downhill trajectory steeper than shown in Figure 1. First, the model leaves out debt and, in fact, the whole financial system. After the 2008 crisis, many people strongly suspected that the financial system would play an important role as we reach the limits of a finite world because debt defaults are likely to disturb the worldwide financial system.
The model also leaves out humans’ continual battle with pathogens. The problem with pathogens becomes greater as world population becomes denser, facilitating transmission. The problem also becomes greater as a larger share of the population becomes more susceptible, either because they are elderly or because they have underlying health conditions that have been hidden by an increasingly complex and expensive medical system.
As a result, we cannot really believe the part of Figure 1 that is after 2020. The future downslopes of population, industrial production per capita, and food per capita all seem likely to be steeper than shown on the chart because both the debt and pathogen problems are likely to increase the speed at which the economy declines.
[2] It is far more than the population that has overshot limits.
The issue isn’t simply that there are too many people relative to resources. The world seems to have
- Too many shopping malls and stores
- Too many businesses of all kinds, with many not very profitable for their owners
- Governments with too extensive programs, which taxpayers cannot really afford
- Too much debt
- An unaffordable amount of pension promises
- Too low interest rates
- Too many people with low wages or no wages at all
- Too expensive a healthcare system
- Too expensive an educational system
The world economy needs to shrink back in many ways at once, simultaneously, to manage within its resource limits. It is not clear how much of an economy (or multiple smaller economies) will be left after this shrinkage occurs.
[3] The economy is in many ways like the human body. In physics terms, both are dissipative structures. They are both self-organizing systems powered by energy (food for humans; a mixture of energy products inducing oil, coal, natural gas, burned biomass and electricity for the economy).
The human body will try to fix minor problems. For example, if someone’s hand is cut, blood will tend to clot to prevent too much blood loss, and skin will tend to grow to substitute for the missing skin. Similarly, if businesses in an area disappear because of a tornado, the prior owners will either tend to rebuild them or new businesses will tend to come in to replace them, as long as adequate resources are available.
In both systems, there is a point beyond which problems cannot be fixed, however. We know that many people die in car accidents if injuries are too serious, for example. Similarly, the world economy may “collapse” if conditions deviate too far from what is necessary for economic growth to continue. In fact, at this point, the world economy may be so close to the edge with respect to resources, particularly energy resources, that even a minor pandemic could push the world economy into a permanent cycle of contraction.
[4] World governments are in a poor position to fix the current resource and pandemic crisis.
In our networked economy, too low a resource base relative to population manifests itself in a strange way: It appears as an affordability crisis that leads to very low prices for oil. It also appears as terribly low prices for many other commodities, including copper, lithium, coal and even wholesale electricity. These low prices occur because too large a share of the population cannot afford finished goods, such as cars and homes, made with these commodities. Recent shutdowns have suddenly increased the number of people with low income or no income, pushing commodity prices even lower.
If resources were more plentiful and very inexpensive to produce, as they were 50 or 70 years ago, wages of workers could be much higher, relative to the cost of resources. Factory workers would be able to afford to buy vehicles, for example, and thus help keep the demand for automobiles up. If we look more deeply into this, we find that energy resources of many kinds (fossil fuel energy, nuclear energy, burned biomass and other renewable energy) must be extraordinarily cheap and abundant to keep the system growing. Without “surplus energy” from many sources, which grows with population, the whole system tends to collapse.
World governments cannot print resources. What they can print is debt. Debt can be viewed a promise of future goods and services, whether or not it is reasonable to believe that these future goods and services will actually materialize, given resource constraints.
We are finding that using shutdowns to solve COVID-19 problems causes a huge amount of economic damage. The cost of mitigating this damage seems to be unreasonably high. For example, in the United States, antibody studies suggest that roughly 5% of the population has been infected with COVID-19. The total number of deaths associated with this 5% infection level is perhaps 100,000, assuming that reported deaths to date (about 80,000) need to be increased somewhat, to match the approximately 5% of the population that has, knowingly or unknowingly, already experienced the infection.
If we estimate that the mean number of years of life lost is 13 years per person, then the total years of life lost would be about 1,300,000. If we estimate that the US treasury needed to borrow $3 trillion dollars to mitigate this damage, the cost per year of life lost is $3 trillion divided by 1.3 million, or $2.3 million dollars per year of life lost. This amount is utterly absurd.
This approach is clearly not something the United States can scale up, as the share of the population affected by COVID-19 relentlessly rises from 5% to something like 70% or 80%, in the absence of a vaccine. We have no choice but to use a different approach.
[5] COVID-19 would have the least impact on the world economy if people could pay little attention to the pandemic and just “let it run.” Of course, even without mitigation attempts, COVID-19 might bring the world economy down, given the distressed level of today’s economy and the shutdowns experienced to date.
Shutting down an economy has a huge adverse impact on that economy because quite a few workers who are in good health are no longer able to make goods and services. As a result, they have no wages, so their “demand” goes way down. If the economy was already having an affordability crisis for goods made with commodities, shutting down the economy tends to greatly add to the affordability crisis. Prices of commodities tend to fall even lower than they were before the crisis.
Back in 1957-1958, the Asian pandemic, which also started in China, hit the world. The number of deaths was up in the range of the current pandemic, relative to population. The estimated worldwide death rate was 0.67%. This is not too dissimilar from a death rate of 0.61% for COVID-19, which can be calculated using my estimate above (100,000 deaths relative to 5% of the US population of 33o million).
Virtually nothing was shut down in the US for the 1957-58 pandemic. When doctors or nurses became sick themselves, wards were simply closed. Would-be patients were told to stay at home and take aspirin, unless a severe case developed. With this approach, the US still faced a short recession, but the economy was soon growing again. Populations seemed to soon reach herd immunity quite quickly.
If the world could somehow have adopted a similar approach this time, there still would have been some adverse impact on the economy. A small percentage of the population would have died. Some businesses might have needed to be closed for a short time when too many workers were out sick. But the huge burden of job loss by a substantial share of the economy could have been avoided. The economy would have had at least a small chance of rebounding quickly.
[6] The virus that causes COVID-19 looks a great deal like a laboratory cross between SARS and HIV, making the likelihood of a quick vaccine low.
In fact, Professor Luc Montagnier, co-discoverer of the AIDS virus and winner of a Nobel Prize in Medicine, claims that the new coronavirus is the result of an attempt to manufacture a vaccine against the AIDS virus. He believes that the accidental release of this virus is what is causing today’s pandemic.
If COVID-19 were simply another influenza virus, similar to many we have seen, then getting a vaccine that would work passably well would be a relatively easy exercise. At least one of the vaccine trials that has been started could be reasonably expected to work, and a solution would not be far away.
Unfortunately, SARS and HIV are fairly different from influenza viruses. We have never found a vaccine for either one. If a person has had SARS once, and is later exposed to a slightly mutated version of SARS, the symptoms of the second infection seem to be worse than the first. This characteristic interferes with finding a suitable vaccine. We don’t know whether the virus causing COVID-19 will have a similar characteristic.
We know that scientists from a number of countries have been working on so-called “gain of function” experiments with viruses. These very risky experiments are aimed at making viruses either more virulent, or more transmissible, or both. In fact, experiments were going on in Wuhan, in two different laboratories, with viruses that seem to be not too different from the virus causing COVID-19.
We don’t know for certain whether there was an accident that caused the release of one of these gain of function viruses in Wuhan. We do know, however, that China has been doing a lot of cover-up activity to deter others from finding out what actually happened in Wuhan.
We also know that Dr. Fauci, a well-known COVID-19 advisor, had his hand in this Chinese research activity. Fauci’s organization, the National Institute for Allergy and Infectious Diseases, provided partial funding for the gain of function experiments on bat coronaviruses in Wuhan. While the intent of the experiments seems to have been for the good of mankind, it would seem that Dr. Fauci’s judgment erred in the direction of allowing too much risk for the world’s population.
[7] We are probably kidding ourselves about ever being able to contain the virus that causes COVID-19.
We are gradually learning that the virus causing COVID-19 is easily spread, even by people who do not show any symptoms of the disease. The virus can spread long distances through the air. Tests to see if people are ill tend to produce a lot of false negatives; because of this, it is close to impossible to know whether a particular person has the illness or not.
China is finding that it cannot really contain the virus that causes COVID-19. A recent South China Morning Post article indicates that roughly 14 million people are to be tested in the Wuhan area in the next ten days to try to control a new outbreak of the virus.
It is becoming clear, as well, that even within China, the lockdowns have had a very negative impact on the economy. The Wall Street Journal reports, China Economic Data Indicate V-Shaped Recovery Is Unlikely. Supply chains were broken; wholesale commodity prices (excluding food) have tended to fall. Joblessness is increasingly a problem.
[8] If we look at deaths per million by country, it is difficult to see that lockdowns are very helpful in reducing the spread of disease. Masks seem to be more beneficial.
If we compare death rates for mask-wearing East Asian countries to death rates elsewhere, we see that death rates in mask-wearing East Asian countries are dramatically lower.
Figure 2. Death rates per million population of selected countries with long-term exposure to the virus causing COVID-19, based on Johns Hopkins death data as of May 11, 2020.
Looking at the chart, a person almost wonders whether lockdowns are a response to requests from citizens to “do something” in response to an already evident surge in cases. The countries known for their severe lockdowns are at the top of the chart, not the bottom.
In fact, a preprint academic paper by Thomas Meunier is titled, “Full lockdown policies in Western Europe countries have no evident impacts on the COVID-19 epidemic.” The abstract says, “Comparing the trajectory of the epidemic before and after the lockdown, we find no evidence of any discontinuity in the growth rate, doubling time, and reproduction number trends. . . We also show that neighboring countries applying less restrictive social distancing measures (as opposed to police-enforced home containment) experience a very similar time evolution of the epidemic.”
It appears to me that lockdowns have been popular with governments around the world for a whole host of reasons that have little to do with the spread of COVID-19:
- Lockdowns give an excuse for closing borders to visitors and goods from outside. This was a direction in which many countries were already headed, in an attempt to raise the wages of local workers.
- Lockdowns can be used to hide the fact that factories need to be closed because of breaks in supply lines elsewhere in the world.
- Many countries have been faced with governmental protests because of low wages compared to the prices of basic services. Lockdowns tend to keep protesters inside.
- Lockdowns give the appearance of protecting the elderly. Since there are many elderly voters, politicians need to court these voters.
[9] A person wonders whether Dr. Fauci and members of the World Health Organization are influenced by the wishes of vaccine and big pharmaceutical companies.
The recommendation to try to “flatten the curve” is, in part, an attempt to give vaccine and pharmaceutical makers more time to work on their products. Is this really the best recommendation? Perhaps I am being overly suspicious, but we recently have been dealing with an opioid epidemic which was encouraged by manufacturers of Oxycontin and other opioids. We don’t need another similar experience, this time sponsored by vaccine and other pharmaceutical makers.
The temptation of researchers is to choose solutions that would be best from the point of their own business interests. If a researcher gets much of his funding from vaccine and big pharmaceutical interests, the temptation will be to “push” solutions that are beneficial to these interests. In some cases, researchers are able to patent approaches, even when the research is paid for by governmental grants. In this case they can directly benefit from a new vaccine or drug.
When potential solutions are discussed by Dr. Fauci and the World Health Organization, no one brings up improving people’s immunity so that they can better fight off the novel coronavirus. Few bring up masks. Instead, we keep being warned about “opening up too soon.” In a way, this sounds like, “Please leave us lots of customers who might be willing to pay a high price for our vaccine.”
[10] One way the combination of (a) the activity of the virus and (b) our responses to the virus may play out is as a slow-motion, controlled demolition of the world economy.
I think of what we are experiencing as being somewhat similar to a toggle bolt going around and around, moving down a screw. As the toggle bolt moves around, I picture it as being similar to the virus and our responses to the viruses hitting different parts of the world economy.
Figure 3. Image of how the author sees COVID-19 as being able to hit the economy multiple times, in multiple ways, as its impact keeps impacting different parts of the world.
If we look back, the virus and reactions to the virus first hit China. China’s recovery is moving slowly, in part because of reduced demand from outside of China now that the virus is hitting other parts of the world. In fact, additional layoffs occurred after Chinese shutdowns ended, because it then became clear that some employers needed to permanently scale back operations to meet the new lower demand for their product.
Commodity prices, including oil prices, are now depressed because of low demand around the world. These low prices can be expected to gradually lead to closures of wells and mines extracting these commodities. Processing centers will also close, making these commodities less available even if demand temporarily rises.
As one country is hit by illnesses and/or shutdowns, we can expect supply lines for manufacturing around the world to be disrupted. This will lead to yet more business closures, some of them permanent. Debt defaults tend to happen as businesses close and layoffs occur.
With all of the layoffs, governments will find that their tax collections are lower. The resulting governmental funding issues can be expected to lead to new rounds of layoffs.
Natural disasters such as hurricanes, tornadoes, floods, earthquakes and forest fires can be expected to continue to happen. Social distancing requirements, inadequate tax revenue and broken supply lines will make mitigation of all of these disasters more difficult. Electrical lines that fall down may stay down permanently; bridges that are damaged may never be repaired.
Initially, rich countries can be expected to try to help as many laid-off workers as possible with loans and temporary stipends. But, after a few months, even with this approach, many individual citizens and businesses will likely not be able to pay their rent. Default rates on home mortgages and auto loans can be expected to rise for a similar reason.
We can expect to see round after round of business failures and layoffs of employees. Financial systems will become more and more stressed. Pensions are likely to default. Death rates will rise, in part from epidemics of various kinds and in part from growing problems with starvation. In fact, in some poor countries, lower-income citizens are already having difficulty being able to afford adequate food. Eventually we can expect collapsing governments (similar to the collapse of central government of the Soviet Union) and overthrown governments.
Longer-term, after this demolition ends, there may be some surviving pieces of economies. These new economies will be much smaller and less dependent upon each other, however. Currencies are likely to be less interchangeable. The remaining people will need to learn to make do with many fewer goods than are available today. It will be a very different world.
55 Comments on "Gail Tverberg: Understanding Our Pandemic – Economy Predicament"
SocialRevolutionComing on Sun, 17th May 2020 11:15 pm
Public education system has already collapse in Québec and will not come back. In Québec schools are closed until September. Parents refused to send their young kids back. The fear COVID backfire and collapse the whole public school system in most western nation.
Québec government is freaking out. This COVID fear propaganda was really badly managed. They went full retard with fear of death. It is a complete failure and it has destroy the trust between people, government and media.
The political system has also collapsed in most of the Whites Western nations. There is no come back from that.
These are the rich elites that re suppose to have a high IQ.
Theedrich on Mon, 18th May 2020 3:54 am
Gail’s analysis is the most cogent one anywhere. It will take a while — perhaps several years — for the above-explained readjustment to reality to take place, but it is inevitable, regardless of political propaganda and happy talk on all sides.
As we devolve, it is also likely that the U.S. and perhaps other countries will invoke the gods of war. America’s favorite technique is to provoke others to desperation and blame them for reciprocal “unexpected” attacks on our “indispensable” nation. Past examples are Fort Sumter, the sinking of the USS Maine in Havana harbor, the Zimmermann telegram, Pearl Harbor (read Day of Deceit: The Truth About FDR and Pearl Harbor by Robert Stinnett), the Tonkin Gulf incident, Iraq’s alleged WMDs, and on and on. One can always find justifications for attacking and plundering other countries.
We are told by our “betters” that America has the finest military anywhere, and that therefore no one would dare attack us. Of course, the principate also likes to suppress the fact that a cornered rat with nuclear weapons may not get that same memo.
If America is experiencing great stress now because of a virus-caused shutdown, what will happen if, say, a thermonuke-caused electromagnetic pulse from 200 miles above North America permanently destroys our electric grid?
Hmmmm?
Abraham van Helsing on Mon, 18th May 2020 5:37 am
– Lusitania.
– European “authoritarian states” aiming at “taking over the world” (and turn a blind eye on the mass-murdering closet ally USSR).
– Nuremberg 6 million
– Assad using chemical weapons against its own population.
lies^10
Davy on Mon, 18th May 2020 6:23 am
The virus is horrible for those dying and their families. If my dad who is weak and sick gets it, he is done. In an objective macro viewpoint looking from the outside in it is a blessing. The blessing is disrupting something that was unsustainable. The demand shock will cause horrible economic dislocations with an underclass of poor disenfranchised people. Nations may fail becuase of it. On balance though this demand shock will cause a realignment of priorities closer to the reality of decline. Globalism will be diminished as it should be. Borders will tighten as they should. This also means within borders with more localism and less frivolous travel. There will be less consumer things to distract people from the basics. A poorer world is a perfect prescription to the illness of affluence that has ravished nations and the planet with bad behavior with no future. The consequences were coming anyway and the longer the delay the worst they were going to be. Food shortages will likely cause famines in areas that are overpopulated calling into question unrestrained population growth. Economic dislocation in richer areas will call into question bad consumptive behavior. In all areas more sustainable behavior will be forced upon populations by Nature. That is nonnegotiable not the Dick Cheney type mind you. The American way of life just change and the rest of the world aspiring to it. It was negotiable and it has now been demoted.
REAL Green on Mon, 18th May 2020 7:27 am
Remember what we said before y’all. Anybody that uses the ‘will’ word should not be listened too.
Examples:
“will cause horrible economic dislocations”
“will cause a realignment”
“will be forced”
“will be diminished”
“will tighten”
“will be less consumer things”
“will call into question”
Davy on Mon, 18th May 2020 7:32 am
So true REAL Green. So true.
I AM THE MOB on Mon, 18th May 2020 8:05 am
Don’t worry the great “thinning” is about to start!
THE NWO IS ALMOST HERE!
Abraham van Helsing on Mon, 18th May 2020 8:18 am
Don’t worry the great “thinning” is about to start!
THE NWO IS ALMOST HERE!
Mobby is mostly ventilating the contents of his smelly sub-conscience; it has little to do with the reality around him. There ain’t going to be an NWO, never will be. The kosher wet dream has turned into a nightmare-prospect of CW2.
Same thing with empire-dave… America “and the rest of the world” (as in: “left-overs”):
The American way of life just change and the rest of the world aspiring to it.
Make that “the third world”. For Europe, America has long stopped to be an attractive example:
https://www.vox.com/2018/1/11/16880750/trump-immigrants-shithole-countries-norway
“Trump wants fewer immigrants from “shithole countries” and more from places like Norway”
Sorry Donnie, but Europeans ain’t coming. For them, America itself has become (half-way) a shit-hole country. The only Europeans that perhaps may come is a huge army to help creating a new white republic from the ashes of ZOG-USA… after the break.
Davy on Mon, 18th May 2020 8:21 am
JuanP Mon, 18th May 2020 7:27 am
Remember what we said before y’all. Anybody that uses the ‘will’ word should not be listened too.
Examples:
“will cause horrible economic dislocations”
“will cause a realignment”
“will be forced”
“will be diminished”
“will tighten”
“will be less consumer things”
“will call into question”
JuanP on Mon, 18th May 2020 7:32 am
So true REAL Green. So true.
JuanP, my original comment stands and it beats your failed position the “virus ain’t shit” and it is a “CIA virus”. Your positions always are wrong. You lie with socks and ID theft to cover this up. This is why you rarely go to the moderated side.
Zeke Putnam on Mon, 18th May 2020 8:52 am
I lost respect for Taverberg a long time ago. Way too much speculation and guesswork in her thinking. To be stating her opinions, and they are baseless opinions, about the source of the virus is manipulative and an effort to spread rumors. Obviously, she is in the “China bad” group. Portions of her article is like yelling “fire” in a crowded theater.
claes on Mon, 18th May 2020 9:00 am
This will definitively change the way “will” is used on this site
Known JuanP socks on Mon, 18th May 2020 9:50 am
claes said This will definitively change the way “will&…
Zeke Putnam said I lost respect for Taverberg a long time ago. Way…
claes on Mon, 18th May 2020 10:35 am
Known, Will you please explain: “Zeke Putnam said I lost respect for Taverberg a long time ago. Way…”
Googling doesn’t help me
claes on Mon, 18th May 2020 10:41 am
Allrigth I googled another way, and Ha-Ha, really funny.
Why must you be smarter than me ??
claes on Mon, 18th May 2020 11:10 am
Ok-horror worst mortality since 27 years in sweden
google translate:
“April was the month with the highest mortality rate in Sweden for 27 years
Last month, at least 10,458 Swedes lost their lives.
April was a sad month for Sweden. (Photo: Jonathan Nackstrand © Scanpix)
BY SEAN COOGAN
TODAY KL. 16:38
Sweden has been seriously affected by Covid-19 in recent months, and this seems to have left its mark on the mortality of our neighboring countries.
According to a new preliminary statement from Sweden’s national statistics office, Statistics Sweden (SCB), April was the month with the highest mortality rate in Sweden for 27 years.
Here it appears that 20 of Sweden’s 21 counties from mid-April to early May experienced mortality compared to normal.
ALSO READ: Sweden’s state epidemiologist: Denmark begins to follow the Swedish path
With at least 10,458 deaths last month, one must go back to 1993 to find a month when several Swedes have died. Back then, 11,057 Swedes lost their lives during December.
Looking at the number of deaths in relation to the population, April was the deadliest month since January 2000.
Both in 1993 and 2000 were due to the high death rates of influenza epidemics, according to Reuters.
Many corona deaths
Sweden has separated itself from its Nordic neighbors by keeping up with the restrictions during the corona crisis. So while Denmark was shut down for weeks, among other things, the Swedish primary schools, bars and gyms have remained open.
The Swedes have experienced significantly more deaths than Denmark, among others. A total of 3698 Swedes are reported dead in connection with the corona eruption, which corresponds to 367 deaths per year. million inhabitants.
The corresponding figures for Denmark and Norway are 95 and 43 respectively.
The Swedish investigation covers all deaths in Sweden. The graph below only deals with corona deaths:
The Stockholm area in particular has been severely affected by the corona crisis, but according to the new statement, the general death toll is on the way down in the Swedish capital.
In week 15, at the beginning of May, 777 Stockholm citizens lost their lives, while the corresponding figure in the first week of May was 414, Statistics Sweden reports.
The Swedish authorities maintain that their corona strategy is scientifically grounded and that it is too early to pass judgment on the strategy.
https://www.dr.dk/nyheder/udland/april-blev-maaneden-med-den-hoejeste-doedelighed-i-sverige-i-27-aar“
claes on Mon, 18th May 2020 11:21 am
Some people want it to look really bad, but facts doesn’t point that way.
The highest number in 27 years means that the numbers were higher in ’93.
Somebody is trying to fool us.
Wolf the Jew Slayer on Mon, 18th May 2020 11:40 am
It is time to cook the jews! The main question this week is surely what jew would we all throw in the oven first?
Harvey Weinstein or some other evil corupting bastard?
Please send your suggestions to the comment section below.
Richard Guenette on Mon, 18th May 2020 11:41 am
Sweden has a good health care system (so I read) and one of the highest life expectancies in the world.
Davy on Mon, 18th May 2020 11:43 am
“Somebody is trying to fool us”
The American Empire is collapsing claes. When the ciavirus doesn’t work, then there will be a magnificent War. That will not stop us from collapsing either. The 3am light show will be a sight to behold though.
claes on Mon, 18th May 2020 11:45 am
Enlil, who eventually became Jehowa should go first.
claes on Mon, 18th May 2020 12:06 pm
Davy, I’m afraid you’re right, and poor europe with no american nato forces to help us. We will be toast.
BUT, the newest thing in scandinavia is an attempt to unite denmatk,sweden and norway into one state.
It’s an old thought but it’s getting more and more relevant. It won’t happen tomorrow but all signs in geopolitics points towards the rationallity in merging these three countries that shares the same culture,ethnicity and political bearing. Finland would have been welcome, but they have some problems with the russians that don’t want nato members at their doorsteps. With a little luck the “united scandinavian countries” could be a reality
I AM THE MOB on Mon, 18th May 2020 12:09 pm
Hillary Clinton calls armed Michigan lockdown protests ‘domestic terrorism’
I AM THE MOB on Mon, 18th May 2020 12:11 pm
What causes the flu to go away every year?
Lockdowns?
LOL
claes on Mon, 18th May 2020 12:21 pm
wolfslayer, do you know the origin of the jewish god Jehowa?
He’s an old sumerian god called Enlil, and he is the god of storm and war. He promised the jews ever prosperity and world dominance, if they would only do his bids.
So lets burn enlil and jehowa
claes on Mon, 18th May 2020 12:32 pm
Mob, even in sweden we can’t get the real numbers about the mortality. We do know though that non-europeans are the hardest hit, but we don’t the exact numbers because…I don’t know why.
Just like in china, so it is all over the world, they don’t want the people to know the real numbers.
Outcast_Searcher on Mon, 18th May 2020 12:38 pm
Endless blathering wrong predictions / nonsense from Gail.
Now she’s an epidemiologist too? LOL
The only reason doomers listen to her is she bleats what they want to hear. Logic or facts be damned.
Davy on Mon, 18th May 2020 1:22 pm
As a fully certified internet virologist myself Outcast, I can tell you it is very easy to claim expertise in a wide range of fields all while having absolutely no actual experience, knowledge or education in the field whatsoever.
Gail may be an actulary by trade, but she is just as qualified to talk about viruses and germs as I am. Well, not perhaps to my level of course, as my own internet experience and expertise in the field far exceeds Gails of course, but, you get the point. If logic and facts were hard requirements for me to use an example, I would have been flushed out of here years ago. And lets face it Outcast, your grip on facts and logic are just as tenuous as mine.
I AM THE MOB on Mon, 18th May 2020 2:49 pm
Outcast
epidemiologist are not the correct experts. Pathologist are.
And this is not a real epidemic.
makati1 on Mon, 18th May 2020 3:11 pm
I hate the Philippines, I hate myself but I love Davy. I think he’s awesome and he’s always right.
JuanP on Mon, 18th May 2020 3:19 pm
I be a fully certified internet virologist myself Outcast, I can tell you it is very easy to claim expertise in a wide range of fields all while having absolutely no actual experience, knowledge or education in the field whatsoever.
Gail may be an actulary by trade, but she is just as qualified to talk about viruses and germs as I am. Well, not perhaps to my level of course, as my own internet experience and expertise in the field far exceeds Gails of course, but, you get the point. If logic and facts were hard requirements for me to use an example, I would have been flushed out of here years ago. And lets face it Outcast, your grip on facts and logic are just as tenuous as mine.
makati1 on Mon, 18th May 2020 3:20 pm
I hate the Philippines, I hate myself but I love JuanP. I think he’s awesome and he’s always right.
JuanP on Mon, 18th May 2020 3:22 pm
China is collapsing claes. When the ciavirus doesn’t work, then there will be a magnificent War. That will not stop us from collapsing either. The 3am light show will be a sight to behold though.
SocialRevolutionComing on Mon, 18th May 2020 3:50 pm
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xKhbwlnHVSY
They are now reopening. They are letting some steam off to avoid social revolution. But you must still wear a mask to keep the sheep in fear.
A bullshit second wave is coming with a full lock down after the summer. We did not need COVID, the economy was already slowing down fast because of depression/low net energy. We did not need to shut it down completely.
Here a some more propaganda. They say we should prepare for another 5 year of physical distancing. LoooooooooooooooooooooL
It is amazing how they reopened economies around the world almost at the same time. No it is not scripted at all.
Duncan Idaho on Mon, 18th May 2020 4:30 pm
The entire healthcare system in the US is geared towards protecting private health for a profit, not public health. That is entirely as it should be in capitalism.
SocialRevolutionComing on Mon, 18th May 2020 4:44 pm
YouTube is now just a big propaganda machine they erase every comments that is not politically correct.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xKhbwlnHVSY
This young ask kid this question:
Steven Chadwick
Why do the people of Europe look different than what I saw on some old cinema?
I reply
Because Whites people are extinct. Arab and Latino are not White even if the government count them as Whites.
30 sec later my comments is earses.
We are in a period of total social decay on top of peak oil. Amazing, I still cannot believe it
Duncan Idaho on Mon, 18th May 2020 4:46 pm
It will be a miracle if the country survives this puerile moron.
Claes on Mon, 18th May 2020 5:12 pm
SocialRevolutionComing is just an asshole JuanP sock
Wolf the Jew Slayer on Mon, 18th May 2020 5:12 pm
China has a growing drug problem, the beginning of their end
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-52712014
The jews will worship their war gods and false prophets till doomsday but reality is showing they are running out of useful idiots.
makati1 on Mon, 18th May 2020 5:13 pm
I can’t believe the site owners put up with JuanPs shit
makati1 on Mon, 18th May 2020 5:23 pm
Good morning guys. I noticed that the children have posted under my name (as above) a number of times since my post yesterday morning here. It must be very boring, being under house arrest for months in Police State Amerika.
I’m not bored. My day is still busy and interesting. Planting butternut squash, watermelons, and lima beans for a fall crop. Tuesday morning here and the rooster is crowing, the birds are singing and the sun is shining. Yawn!
BTW: Good article Gail!
makati1 on Mon, 18th May 2020 5:26 pm
Duncan, no country will be the same after this flu bullshit blows over, but the US will never ever get back anywhere close to the pre 2020 lifestyle. The good times are gone for Amerika, and most of the West. I hope you are prepared.
SocialRevolutionComing on Mon, 18th May 2020 5:41 pm
Province of Québec Canada has its first peaceful manifestation;
2 in Germany. 1 UK, 1 Spain, 1 Poland, 1 Québec.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tqKYyOHQ3zU
I AM THE MOB on Mon, 18th May 2020 6:04 pm
Trump just said he’s taking hydroxychloroquine
Anonymouse on Mon, 18th May 2020 6:29 pm
One child Mak, the exceptionally retarded donkey from Missura. No one else socks here against you or rest of us. It is 100% demented davy. He just likes to stalk, prick and play games all day long. In between trying to convince everyone he is the best thing to ever happen to the internet of course.
makati1 on Mon, 18th May 2020 6:38 pm
Anon, I was pretty sure it was only him. I am not on here much and don’t even try to keep up with who is who. The comment tells me if it is a real, educated, mature person, not the name.
Since the Missouri Jackass doesn’t fit that description, it is easy to tell who wrote it. Dementia does not only happen to older people, as can be see with Delusional Davy. Have a
makati1 on Mon, 18th May 2020 6:39 pm
great day!
I AM THE MOB on Mon, 18th May 2020 6:51 pm
MASKS are the new “CHAINS”.
They want us to go out and declare “I’m your slave” because of a fake flu..
The elites must be laughing their asses off.
makati1 on Mon, 18th May 2020 7:04 pm
I hate the Philippines and I hate myself but I love America. I think America is just awesome because the Philippines is a real shithole. I’m going to move back to America. I can’t wait.
makati1 on Mon, 18th May 2020 8:11 pm
Davy, your childish actions speak louder than your words. You keep proving your insanity. You are so depressed since your nanny goat sex partner shunned you and you are reduced to jerking off behind yjr the outhouse, that you are living online 24/7f proving you are immature, arrogant, and totally brainwashed, both active brain cells that is. LMAO!
I AM THE MOB on Mon, 18th May 2020 8:42 pm
911 false flag and then iraq
fake beer flu and then
Reports suggest four US Navy warships are in the Caribbean for a ‘possible confrontation with Iran’s tankers’. Al Jazeera
oil peak