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Collapse: Where can we find a safe refuge?

Collapse: Where can we find a safe refuge? thumbnail
Does it make sense to have a well-stocked bunker in the mountains to escape collapse?
 

 

Sometimes, you feel that the world looks like a horror story, something like Lovecraft’s “The Shadow Over Innsmouth..” Image from F.R: Jameson.

Being the collapsnik I am, a few years ago I had the idea that I could buy myself some kind of safe haven in the mountains, a place where I and my family could find refuge if (and when) the dreaded collapse were to strike our civilization (as they say, when the Nutella hits the fan). It is a typical idea of collapse-oriented people: run away from cities, imagined being the most vulnerable places in a Mad Max-style scenario.

Maybe I was thinking also of Boccaccio’s Decameron, when he describes how in the mid-14th century a group of wealthy Florentines finds refuge from the plague in a villa, outside Florence. And they had a leisured time telling stories to each other. I don’t oven a villa in the countryside, but I took a tour of villages in the Appennini mountains, a few hundred km from Florence, to seek for a hamlet of some kind to buy. I was accompanied by a friend of mine who is a denizen of the area and whom I had infected with the collapse meme.

We found several houses and apartments for sale in the area. One struck me as suitable, and the price was also interesting. It was a two-floor apartment with the windows opening on the central square of the village where it was located, among wooden hills. It had a wood stove, the kind of heating system you can always manage in an emergency. And it was at a sufficient height you could be reasonably safe from heat waves, even without air conditioning.

Then, I was looking at the village from one of the windows when a strange sensation hit me. People were walking in the square, and a few of them raised their glance to look at me. And, for a moment, I was scared.

Did you ever read Lovecraft’s short story “The Shadow over Innsmouth“? It tells the story of someone who finds himself stuck in a coastal town named Innsmouth that he discovers being inhabited by fish-like humanoids, the “deep Ones,” practicing the cult of a marine deity called Dagon.

Don’t misunderstand me: the people I was seeing in the square were not alien cultists of some monstrous divinity. What had scared me was a different kind of thought. It was that I knew that every adult male in that area owns a rifle or a shotgun loaded with slug ammunition. And every adult male in good health engages in wild boar hunting every weekend. They can kill a boar at 50 meters or more, then they are perfectly able to gut it and turn it into ham and sausages.

Now, if things were to turn truly bad, would some of those people consider me as the equivalent of a wild boar? For sure, I couldn’t even dream to be able to match the kind of firepower they have. I thanked the owner of the place and my friend, and I drove back home. I never went back to that place.

A few years later, with a real collapse striking us in the form of the COVID-19 epidemics,  I can see that I did well in not buying that apartment in the mountains. At the time of Boccaccio, wealthy Florentine citizens could reasonably think of moving to a villa in the countryside. These villas were nearly self-sufficient agricultural units, where one could find food and shelter provided by local peasants and servants (at that time not armed with long-range rifles). But that, of course, is not the case anymore.

The current crisis is showing us what a real collapse looks like. And it shows that some science fiction scenarios were totally wrong. The typical trope of a post-holocaust story is that people run away from flaming cities after having stormed the shops and the supermarkets, leaving empty shelves for those who arrive late. That didn’t happen here. At most, people seemed to think that what they needed most in an emergency was toilet paper and they emptied the supermarket shelves of it. But that was quickly over. Maybe we’ll arrive at that kind of scenario, but what is happening now is not that the supermarkets are running out of goods, everything is available if you have the money to buy it. The problem is that people are running out of money.

In this situation, the last thing the government wants is food riots. And they especially care about cities — if they lose control of the cities, everything is lost for them. So they are acting on two levels: they are providing food certificates for the poor, and, at the same time, clamping down on cities with the police and the army to enforce the lockdown. People are facing criminal charges if they dare to take a walk on the street.

Not an easy situation, but at least we have food and the cities are quiet. Think of what would have happened if I had bought that apartment in the mountains. I wouldn’t even have been able to go there during the coronavirus epidemics. But, if somehow I had managed to dodge the police, then I would be stuck there. And no supermarkets nearby: there is a small shop selling food in the village, but would it be resupplied during the crisis? The locals have ways to survive also with local food, but a town dweller like me doesn’t. And I never tried to shoot a wild boar, I think it is not easy — to say nothing about gutting it and turning it into sausage. Worse, I am sure that no police would patrol that small village, surely not the woods. So, maybe the local denizens would not shoot me and boil me in a cauldron, but if I were to run out of toilet paper, where could I find some? And, worse, what if I were to run out of food?

So, where can we find refuge from collapse? I can think of scenarios where you could be better off in a bunker somewhere in an isolated area, where you stocked a lot of supplies. But in most cases, that would be a terribly bad idea. A well-stocked bunker is the ideal target for whoever is better armed than you, and they can always smoke you out. Of course, you can think of a refuge for an entire group of people, with some of them able to shoot intruders, others to cultivate the fields, others to care for you if you get sick. Maybe, but it is a complicated story. You could join the Amish, but would they want you? It has been done often on the basis of religious ideas and in some cases, it may have worked, at least for a while. And never forget the case of Reverend Jim Jones in Guyana.

In the end, I think the best place to be in a time of crisis is exactly where I am: in a medium-sized city. It is the last place that the government will try to keep under control as long as possible, and not a likely target for someone armed with nukes or other nasty things. Why do I say that? Look at the map, here.

This is a map of the Roman Empire at its peak. Note the position of the major cities: the Empire collapsed and disappeared, but most of the cities of that time are still there, more or less with the same name, the new buildings built in place of the old ones, or near them. Those cities were built in specific places for specific reasons, availability of water, resources, or transportation. And so it made sense for the cities to be exactly where they were, and where they still are. Cities turned out to be extremely resilient. And how about Roman villas in the countryside? Well, many are being excavated today, but after the fall of the Empire, they were abandoned and never rebuilt. It must have been terribly difficult to defend a small settlement against all the horrible things that were happening at the time of the fall of the Empire.

So, overall, I think I did well in moving from a home in the suburbs to one downtown. Bad times may come, but I would say that it offers the best chances of survival, even in reasonably horrible times. Then, of course, the best plan of mice and men tend to gang agley, as we all know.  In any case, collapses are bad and that’s doesn’t change for collapsniks.

Cassandra’s Legacy



25 Comments on "Collapse: Where can we find a safe refuge?"

  1. forbin on Thu, 9th Apr 2020 12:28 pm 

    People are facing criminal charges if they dare to take a walk on the street.

    how fragile democracy is

  2. REAL Green on Thu, 9th Apr 2020 12:42 pm 

    I am not going to disagree with Ugo because you are in Italy and I am in Missouri. This is a big gap with comparisons. I think I have made a good location decision. I am on a farm not too far from a medium size city. I make quite a bit of food and have lots of wildlife to draw on. Yet, it is community that really matter in prepping for collapse. A bunker mentality like a lot of preppers have is really not legitimate except for a few months. I have that set up too but it is more for my death party. I have all I need to watch SHTF play out. I would like to die in comfort so to speak not a panicked run into the bushes to die like an animal. That said I do not see a mad max SHTF Hollywood unfolding.

    I see a decline ahead virus or no virus. This will likely be a longer-term process with events and this virus was an event. Now let me elaborate because there are millions of locals or billions if you go down to the individual level. People will be dying from decline that otherwise would not be from a growth period. Locals which a define as small communities down to the family and individual will suffer according to a combination of fate and preparedness. Ask any special forces soldier about being organized and prepared yet everyone has a plan until he is smacked in the face. So prepping is education and life is what it is and that is a kind of fate. There is dumb luck and unfortunate situations of people that deserve better. Nature could give a shit on 98% of the level expect humans are part of nature so in this regards nature has empathy and judgment too.

    In my opinion a mega city is not a good place to be. Today the world is dotted with them and over the next decade they will surely stop growing and likely depopulate so avoid them. The rural areas are good depending on how they are situated in regards to population centers. Not too close so that if things spiral out of control hungry people show up to take or beg. If you are too far rural then you might be the hungry begging for help. In my opinion a small to medium size town and or a farm within 10 miles of these towns is a good location. Of course, regionally it matters. If you are in a region that populated because of fossil fuels then you really need to evaluate where you are. How many people will survive in southern Arizona post AC systems and imported water? Sure, there will be some but not current population levels. I think there are multiple ways to look at locations and I would say this is a good time to get started.
    realgreenadaptation.blog

  3. Abraham van Helsing on Thu, 9th Apr 2020 12:48 pm 

    Individual prepping is worthless. The best place to survive, in case of some emergency (war) is in a small town of a few (ten) thousand with sufficient land around it.

    Russia and Eastern Europe collapsed after 1990, yet very few died from malnutrition.

  4. SocialRevolutionComing on Thu, 9th Apr 2020 1:22 pm 

    If you are living in Nordic nations,Canada,Sweden, it is time for you to move South. Once the supply chain totally collapse and the electrical grid goes down for ever, Nordic nations will become death trap. If you live in Europe it is time to immigrate to Africa. If you live in North America it is time to immigrant to Brazil or Mexico.

  5. Davy on Thu, 9th Apr 2020 2:30 pm 

    “Individual prepping is worthless.”

    Cloggo says that because he is not prepped. If individuals are prepped then the whole is better. That is a no-brainer. Prep is a wide word too. Lots of prepping is common sense like home economics and gardening.

  6. JuanP is a lunatic on Thu, 9th Apr 2020 2:31 pm 

    This is dumb fuck lunatic juanPee

    SocialRevolutionComing

  7. Abraham van Helsing on Thu, 9th Apr 2020 3:30 pm 

    EU-agreement, massive support for the garlic countries,, no Euro-bonds. Tensions defused.

    https://www.nu.nl/coronavirus/6043884/eurogroep-bereikt-akkoord-over-steunpakket-coronacrisis.html

  8. Abraham van Helsing on Thu, 9th Apr 2020 3:39 pm 

    BoJo out of the ICU, probably will survive and keep his vigorous qualities… after a decent rest period.

    We can only be grateful to the man who got Brexit done for us continental Europeans, an immense and unexpected gift to us, in an exercise that caught the entire Westminster elite wrong-footed by the fish-and-chips shack dwellers, after pm Cameron hat carelessly organized a referendum.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/03/24/lord-heseltine-suggests-brexit-allowing-germany-win-world-war/

    “Lord Heseltine suggests Brexit vote allows Germany to win World War2”

    (Lord Heseltine is one of the smartest minds in Britain, much smarter than the average Brexiteer)

  9. whoa supertards trigger muzzie lovin on Thu, 9th Apr 2020 3:49 pm 

    Abraham van Helsing on Thu, 9th Apr 2020 3:39 pm

    BoJo out of the ICU, probably will survive and keep his vigorous qualities… after a decent rest period.

    supertard
    i don’t care if whitey supertard bojo is dead. he’s a muzzie lover

    ask yourself cui bono

    did muzzie andy chowdary get amputated, NO

    amputate all muzzies starting with muzzie imam

  10. whoa supertards trigger muzzie lovin on Thu, 9th Apr 2020 3:57 pm 

    why wihtey supertard tom holland not a muzzie lover
    he speaks high english exclusively

  11. whoa supertards trigger muzzie lovin on Thu, 9th Apr 2020 4:08 pm 

    muzzie imam said westerners are filthy using tp
    muzzie said wash rear end and sat in between two kufar very smelly

    muzziing mandate proper toilet technique one leg in, right leg, then left leg, and left leg and right leg and sit down to pee

    this is what gave supertard bladder infection but he respond with loving muzzie 1000x
    ht supertard big muzzie beard

  12. whoa supertards trigger muzzie lovin on Thu, 9th Apr 2020 4:12 pm 

    “If about 1,000 people would master the content in The History of Jihad, it would change the course of history”

    said whitey supertard david wood

    then what, muzzies don’t care about reasons and because muzzie politics is superior

    only a people’s trial of global muzzies for crimes against humanity and mass amputation

    next best case is encorporate sharia into secular law for and enforced for muzzies only then mass amputaiton because 100% of muzzies failed sharia

  13. whoa supertards trigger muzzie lovin on Thu, 9th Apr 2020 4:19 pm 

    The contradiction between “Allahu akbar” and “La illaha illallah” (There is no god but Allah)

    supertard ann julie pandabear said this is a shirk and punishable by amputation. 100% muzzies commited shirk

    if there’s no god but allah and allah is grater than allah than this is unforgiable sin agains alah because nobody is grater than allah the pedifile

  14. whoa supertards trigger muzzie lovin on Thu, 9th Apr 2020 4:24 pm 

    the knights of columbus were real headbreakers true guiness
    20 years after an irishman couldn’t get a job we had the presidency may he rest in peace

    go biden!

  15. JuanP is an idiot on Thu, 9th Apr 2020 4:33 pm 

    This is from a Low IQ south amerikan

    whoa supertards trigger muzzie lovin said the knights of columbus were real headbreakers tru…

    whoa supertards trigger muzzie lovin said The contradiction between “Allahu akbar” and “La i…

    whoa supertards trigger muzzie lovin said “If about 1,000 people would master the content in…

    whoa supertards trigger muzzie lovin said muzzie imam said westerners are filthy using tp mu…

    whoa supertards trigger muzzie lovin said why wihtey supertard tom holland not a muzzie love…

    whoa supertards trigger muzzie lovin said Abraham van Helsing on Thu, 9th Apr 2020 3:39 pm…

  16. Duncan Idaho on Thu, 9th Apr 2020 4:54 pm 

    “We want no pay, only what we can take & plunder, & what slaves we take to be our own.”

  17. makati1 on Thu, 9th Apr 2020 5:49 pm 

    Yep! Move to the center of the coming riots and where the grocery store shelves will be empty in less than three days with no refill.

    A plus is that the local drug dealer will be closer.

    Go for it!

    There is one born every minute. LOL

  18. Anonymouse on Thu, 9th Apr 2020 7:48 pm 

    Hey exceptionalturd, do you think a good refuge from this ‘virus’ would be Italy? I bet that would be a GREAT place to set up a doomstead wouldnt it? It has everything the wannebe prepper would ever want, or even just wannabes I’d think. Italy is isolated, I mean, Italy is clearly just like Missouri, who would ever want to visit the place, much less live there right? It has Italian dressing. Pasta, and best of all, it has the Pope, who will hear the confessions of the guilty wanneabe agressive dumbasses. He’ll absolve anyone, or almost anyone, of their sins.
    Like, lying. Or socking. Or ID theft (see lying). Or spamming. All pardonable sins? Can ask the Pope when your in the confession box.

    If that is not enough, I hear Italy has land free for the taking, no pollution, no crime and the best medical system in the world. Should a would be prepper come down with the, I dont know, flu or something.

    So what do you THINK exceptionaltard, is ITALY the place to be for the coming collapse? Or do shit-hole flyover merikan states filled with ignorant, loud-mouth but opinionated buffoons offer a safer haven?

    ?

  19. Abraham van Helsing on Fri, 10th Apr 2020 4:25 am 

    “I mean, Italy is clearly just like Missouri, who would ever want to visit the place, much less live there right?”

    Who would want to visit the place, you ask?

    https://www.worldatlas.com/articles/10-most-visited-countries-in-the-world.html

    Europe – 330 million
    USA – 80 million
    China – 63 million

    Italy is #5 in the global ranking.

    Yeah, why would people want to visit Venice, Rome and Florence rather than Toronto? That will always remain a mystery for anonymouse, who as a North-American exceptionalist of the African variety will gloat about Mussolini, after Hitler allegedly the “worst man in history”.

    The tourism figures btw are comparable with the Olympic medal table ranking.lol:

    http://people.idsia.ch/~juergen/alltimegold.html

    Should give you a clear idea of who will be the next geopolitical #1, after empire, certainly if you include Russia.

    Now that European-America is nearly over, one can only compliment empire dave with his choice of finding a refuge in European safety, with North-America on the verge of CW2. Pity though that corona spoiled everything and all of a sudden the world has become big again, with borders reinstalled and dave’s Italian refuge plan has been blocked.

    I very well understand that dave’s wife fled back to Italy (is she already back or is it final?). That’s what I would do if I was stuck in third world USA, where anonymouse types are used by globalist types of the kosher variety to destroy the fabric of white society.

  20. world supremacist muzzies on Fri, 10th Apr 2020 12:14 pm 

    ever been in a dysfunctioanl family, marriage, friendship, relationship?

    when jungle king duterte shoots everything to fix problems you know your days are coming to a close.

    what about china? got a video for that

    please change your udnerwear after 5 days and continue to love supremacist muzzies

  21. JuanP on Fri, 10th Apr 2020 12:25 pm 

    ever been in a dysfunctioanl family, marriage, friendship, relationship?

    when jungle king duterte shoots everything to fix problems you know your days are coming to a close.

    please change your udnerwear after 5 days and continue to love supremacist muzzies

  22. Davy on Fri, 10th Apr 2020 12:46 pm 

    ever been in a dysfunctioanl family, marriage, friendship, relationship?

    when jungle king duterte shoots everything to fix problems you know your days are coming to a close.

    please change your udnerwear after 5 days and continue to love supremacist muzzies

  23. anon on Sun, 12th Apr 2020 5:25 am 

    out here in the country we dont need any more city folk coming around anyway. And those cities from antiquity that are still around today? dont forget that in western europe, for a thousand years those cities were almost deserted, and people, even the ruling class, lived in… strongholds out in the country. The cities shrank back to mere villages and the grand old buildings were slowly quarried for building materials or cleared for gardens and stables, for centuries. When civilization regained enough complexity to support cities, yes, the old sites were _often_ still geographically logical places and cities re-grew out of the ruins. But not always. Where’s augusta raurica these past fifteen centuries? where did Paris come from? the pattern was the same (city at a good crossing of a navigable river) but for quite a long time , cities really had gone out of style.
    Now this time around, it’s not just western europe thats collapsing, it is a global civilization. There will be no byzantium that avoids collapse and preserves antiquity to be rekindled a millenium later. Events of the past few months sure look a lot like an attempt by the elites to manage a controlled demolition of enough of the economy to get under the seneca curve (excellent name by the way) that they can hang on to power and status, but that’s just buying them a little bit of time at the expense of trashing everyone else’s adaptation to collapse which will now be a lot worse.
    This time around it will be a very long time before we have much use for cities as anything other than what they were in the early middle ages – trading posts and very small scale recycling/scavenging industry repurposing the bones of the current civilization, a place for most people, to go to get some business done and then get back to the relative safety and abundance of the ‘middle of nowhere’ and their own people.
    as ugo has described in some of his other writings, how the actual response to roman collapse was exactly what we saw in the west in the early middle ages, a similar picture of reduced complexity, increased localization, resource scavenging from the remains of a previous age, etc, are our future now as well (and indeed our only real hope, the current model is suicide).

  24. Abraham van Helsing on Sun, 12th Apr 2020 6:42 am 

    Anchor babies?

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8210957/WikiLeaks-boss-Julian-Assange-fathered-two-children-inside-Ecuadorian-embassy-lawyer.html

    “WikiLeaks boss Julian Assange fathered two children inside the Ecuadorian embassy with lawyer, 37, who fell in love with him while helping his fight against extradition to the US”

    Easter is traditionally a good time to raise from the dead:

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8211821/Ive-got-b-r-thing-Boris-Johnsons-verdict-battling-coronavirus.html

    “He is risen! Delighted reaction of Boris Johnson’s family as it’s revealed ‘exhausted but euphoric’ PM is recovering in hospital with his favourite Tintin cartoon books – as friends reveal how close to death he came”

  25. Davy on Sun, 12th Apr 2020 7:26 am 

    “This time around it will be a very long time before we have much use for cities as anything other than what they were in the early middle ages – trading posts and very small scale recycling/scavenging industry repurposing the bones of the current civilization, a place for most people, to go to get some business done and then get back to the relative safety and abundance of the ‘middle of nowhere’ and their own people. as ugo has described in some of his other writings, how the actual response to roman collapse was exactly what we saw in the west in the early middle ages, a similar picture of reduced complexity, increased localization, resource scavenging from the remains of a previous age, etc, are our future now as well (and indeed our only real hope, the current model is suicide).”

    Too early to tell about the collapse trajectory and especially the rate of decline. Globalism is so powerful a generator of goods and productive activity that it might take some time for it to be dismantled. One thing is certain the potential of a rapid unravelling is there and this is the case for globalism over the next 2 years if we don’t get our shit together as a global people. Food shortages can be very disruptive and it will likely be food shortages that are one of the biggest resulting economic disruptions from the virus.

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