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A Few Notes on Nature Spirits, Part Two: Into A Living World

General Ideas

Last week’s post here on dealt with some of the reasons why so many people in today’s industrial societies are acutely uncomfortable with the suggestion that the forces and processes of nature might be persons rather than things. That’s what we’re discussing, after all, when we talk about nature spirits. The world of spirits, as it’s understood by occult philosophy, isn’t some alien realm whose inhabitants leap through into our world, violating natural laws with impunity; the world of spirits is the inner side of the world we experience with our senses.

I’m probably going to have to explain that, and then repeat it several times in different ways, because it flies in the face of some of our culture’s most deeply entrenched notions about reality.  Thus people who’ve been raised in Western industrial societies are very good at not processing it and not thinking about it. Operative mages—people who practice magic, the art and science of causing change in consciousness in accordance with will—don’t live in some flashy otherworld like Middle-Earth, or even in a “wizarding world” linked with the ordinary world via anomalous train stations and the like. They live in the same world that scientific materialists do, and they’re subject to the same natural laws that scientific materialists are.

What makes the operative mage’s experience of the world differ from the scientific materialists’ experience is that the mage encounters the world through a wider range of senses than the materialist, and so perceives aspects of the world that the materialist doesn’t. The other senses just mentioned aren’t anything strange or exotic; everyone has them—but in most of the modern industrial world, children are thoroughly bullied and browbeaten if they admit to perceiving anything that they’re not supposed to perceive. As a result, by the time they grow up, most of them have learned not to use these senses, or at least not to talk about what they perceive, on the occasions when they encounter something that can’t be ignored.

In the discussion that followed last week’s post, a Shinto priestess who reads this blog (tip of the druidical hat to Patricia O.), mentioned that when she mentions her priestesshood to people she’s just met, a very large number of them want to talk to her about experiences they’ve had with spirits and other things that, according to scientific materialists, aren’t allowed to exist. I’ve had exactly the same experience in my public appearances as a Druid and a student of occult traditions, and I know many other people with similar qualifications who’ve had the same sort of thing happen over and over again. To judge by these experiences, people all over the industrial world are desperate to talk to anyone who will listen intelligently and sympathetically to what they have to say about experiences of this kind, and not just behave like self-appointed members of the reality police.

The issues involved were framed memorably by the poet William Blake a long time ago:

Now I a fourfold vision see
And a fourfold vision is given to me
It is fourfold in my supreme delight
And threefold in soft Beulah’s night
And twofold always. May God us keep
From single vision and Newton’s sleep!

Single vision—the shrill and dogmatic insistence that real knowledge can only come through the material senses, and must never be understood as anything but the random acts of dead matter and mindless energy in a dead and mindless cosmos—pervades contemporary industrial civilization.  It’s because we’re so used to thinking in these terms that we’ve gotten so good at manipulating matter and energy, but it’s also because we’re so used to thinking in these terms that we’ve done such a dismal job of maintaining the balance of the living planet on which our own lives depend. The old story of King Midas has an uncomfortable parallel here; just as Midas got the power to turn things to gold by touching them, only to discover that his food, his drink, and his daughter also got turned into lumps of yellow metal, we’ve gotten so good at manipulating dead things that we’re only just starting to notice that we’re turning everything around us into dead things, and may well end up turning into dead things in a hurry ourselves if we don’t get a clue or two.

Two of the other three modes of experience Blake was talking about in the poem I’ve just cited are familiar to most if not all of us; again, it’s purely the fact that we were raised in a culture that punishes children for paying attention to such things that keeps us from sharing the fourfold vision he described. You use one of those modes of experience whenever you meet a person or step into a place and pick up what those of us of a certain long-departed subculture used to call the “vibe” of that person or place. That’s a mode of perception as valid as sight or hearing, and like these, it improves through practice and atrophies through neglect.

Like sight or hearing, this other mode is subject to illusions and can’t evade the hard limits of subjectivity, but like sight or hearing, it can also bring accurate and useful information about the world around us. It also has aspects that go well beyond the simple sensing of “vibes” I’ve just mentioned. (I tend to use that simply because almost everyone knows what I’m talking about when I describe it.) The human mind very often casts the experiences that come through this mode in parasensory form: that is to say, you “see” something, or “hear” something, or “touch” something, even though your eyes, your ears, and the nerve endings in your skin don’t seem to be involved at all. Different people have different talents along these lines; there are people who habitually “see things,” or what have you.

That’s the second mode of experience. The third is a little harder to grasp, because our society uses it relentlessly in a one-sided way, and then has to scramble to fit that into the language of single vision; as a result, most of us are really good at not noticing it when it appears. The best way to get a sense of it is to think about what happens when you go from learning something by rote to making sense of it. Take any kind of knowledge that isn’t simply bulk memorization, and you almost certainly go through those two stages; at first it’s just a matter of fumbling your way through things you remember but don’t understand, but at some point things start to click, and you become able to think through them; they become, in a certain sense, transparent to you.

Back in the Middle Ages, before single vision got its claws so deeply embedded in the Western mind, this capacity was called intellectus. You can think of it in English as “understanding,” in the literal sense of standing under something so you can see what makes it tick. It’s a distinctive mode of experience; like the material senses and the perception of “vibes,” it improves through practice and atrophies through neglect, and the aspect of it that shows us how to make existing bodies of knowledge transparent to our awareness is only one of its many uses. It can also be used all by itself, without some existing body of knowledge to direct it. Like the other two modes of experience, it’s fallible and subjective, but like them, it can bring us accurate and useful knowledge of the world that surrounds us.

And the fourth mode of experience, the one that Blake experienced in his “supreme delight”? That’s the mystical experience that’s called satori in Japanese and samadhi in Sanskrit, the integrative insight that makes the entire world transparent to consciousness. Those who have experienced this assure us that nothing that can be said in any human language can do an adequate job of communicating what this mode is about, and so—well, as the saying among mystics goes, of that concerning which nothing can be said, it is best to remain silent.

So we have four modes of experience—in Blake’s phrase, a fourfold vision—and three of these modes are accessible to most of us most of the time. For the sake of convenience, occultists like to use the metaphor of “planes” when talking about what we perceive through these modes of experience. The things we perceive through the five physical senses, in this way of speaking, belong to the material plane; the things we perceive through “vibes,” and the parasensory perceptions that unfold from that mode of experience, belong to the astral plane; the things we perceive through intellectus, the sense of meaning, belong to the mental plane; and the things we perceive though mystical experience belong to the spiritual plane. These planes, again, aren’t different places or mystical otherworlds; they’re all aspects of one and the same world.  You exist in all of them right now. You’ve been existing in all four of them since you were born, and you will continue to exist in all four until you die—

And then you’ll exist in three of them.

That’s the thing about these planes or, to move back from the metaphor a bit, the things we experience through these four modes of experience. The landscapes they show to us aren’t quite identical to one another, and there are things that aren’t present on all four planes. Living human beings exist and can be perceived in all four of them. Dead human beings, and a very broad range of entities that aren’t human and apparently never were, exist and can be perceived in three of them. The single vision of modern industrial society insists that since only one of these planes exists, whatever we perceive on the others is some combination of fraud, delusion, and make-believe. That belief is defended with impressive displays of circular logic, but I’ve discussed that in an earlier essay and we don’t have to get into it now.

There are also beings who exist on all four planes who don’t have the same kind of bodies we do, and nature spirits belong to this category. To make sense of this, we’re going to have to spend a little while talking about the nature of embodiment.

You and I, dear reader, are members of the animal kingdom. That means, among many other things, that our material bodies are more completely differentiated from their environment than the bodies of living things that belong to other kingdoms. That doesn’t mean that we’re entirely separate from our environments, not by a long shot; we constantly absorb things from our environments and release other things into our environments, and about ten per cent of our body weight is made up of microbes of various kinds, without which we can’t survive—but unless you use a microscope, it’s fairly easy to figure out where our bodies stop and the environment starts.

That’s less true of other living things. Plants, for example, are much more integrated with their surroundings than we are. Unlike animals, which cycle the same water around and around in their bloodstreams until it gets used to flush wastes through the kidneys, plants take water in through the roots, use it to haul nutrients up the stem, and then let it out through the leaves. It’s no exaggeration to say that the circulatory system of a plant includes the entire biosphere. The same lack of differentiation is true of plants in other ways, including some of those that are perceived through the other modes of experience we were talking about a few paragraphs back.

There are other living things far less differentiated than plants. Soil ecologists have been pointing out for a long time now, for example, that humus—the organic slime that makes the difference between powdered rock and fertile soil—is for all practical purposes alive. It takes in food, excretes wastes, circulates nutrients, passes information from one part of itself to another, and can even reproduce, when circumstances permit, in much the same way that amoebas do. The difficulty in classifying humus as a living thing is simply that it has none of the boundaries our scientists expect to find in living things: no cell walls or membranes between parts of itself, no skin between it and its surroundings.

To explain nature spirits, in turn, it’s simply necessary to take the same insight a little further, and recognize that there can be other modes of embodiment even less differentiated from the environment than humus. That’s what the traditional lore found in occult literature amounts to: every force and process of nature is the embodiment of a living, conscious entity. Phrased in so bold a way, such a concept invites instant repudiation from those who’ve bought into the conventional wisdom of our age—but for human beings as a whole, around the world and across the arc of recorded history, that conventional wisdom is very much a minority view.

Take any human culture, anywhere, that hasn’t been too heavily influenced by contemporary scientific materialism, or by the prophetic religions that unintentionally laid the foundations for contemporary scientific materialism by way of their radical devaluing of nature. Look at what that culture has to say about the natural world, and odds are you’ll find a set of understandings that make perfect sense from within the perspective suggested here. Shall we take ancient Greece as an example? To the ancient Greeks, even the greatest of the gods and goddesses were closely associated with natural forces. One common way to speak of wet weather in ancient Greece was to say “Zeus is raining.” (Nowadays we say “it’s raining.” What is raining? To the ancient Greeks, the proper interrogative would have been “who?”)

In the same way, Demeter was always closely associated with the soil, to the extent that recent research has shown that sacred groves of Demeter were consistently planted in places well suited to stop soil erosion.  Athena was the goddess of olive groves, and the distinctive ecology that olive domestication produces—and it was from that, and from the cascading ecological and economic effects of olive domestication, that she became a goddess of civilization and the civilized arts and crafts. Pay attention to each of the old gods and goddesses and you can see the force of nature that provides him or her with a body.

It used to be very popular among students of comparative religion to take this equation and insist that it meant that Zeus was “nothing but” the sky, Demeter “nothing but” the soil, and so on. That’s not what the ancient Greeks had in mind, though. To them, Zeus was the sky as the body of a living, conscious entity. Demeter was a life and mind made manifest through the body we call “soil.” What’s more, they extended the same insight down to very localized scales. Poseidon was the god of the sea—in the terms we’re using here, the ocean as the body of a conscious entity—but there were also beings embodied in individual seas and straits and harbors, and indeed in individual waves. In the same way, the smallest spring or grove of trees had its tutelary spirit, a living, conscious entity who was embodied in that spring or grove, and who would respond to certain traditional acts of reverence in certain more or less predictable ways.

That was the basis for the old pagan religions. It’s not going too far at all to think of those faiths, in one of their most important aspects, as a system of practical techniques for communicating with the inner, conscious side of natural forces and processes: a sort of traditional language, composed of those acts we call “rituals,” which helped human communities establish and maintain good relationships with nature. All that was swept away across most of the Western world when a new religious movement redefined religion in puritanical and dogmatic terms disconnected from nature. When Christian zealots backed up by the power of the Roman state ordered the groves of Demeter cut down, they plunged Greece into an ecological catastrophe that can still be measured in thick layers of eroded topsoil on the bottom of the Aegean Sea, and caused population levels in Greece to crash by around 50% over the centuries immediately after: a reminder that when traditional lore claims a god or a goddess will punish certain kinds of impiety very harshly indeed, that claim may not be as superstitious as it looks.

The modern industrial world has inherited that ancient tradition of ecologically ignorant zealotry to a far greater extent than most of today’s scientific materialists like to admit. It’s a source of wry amusement among those of us who take the old lore seriously that fundamentalist Christians and scientific materialists, who claim to disagree about almost everything, have identical reactions to the sort of thing I’ve been discussing: they throw up their hands in horror and denounce it with the strongest label in their vocabulary. For the fundamentalists, that’s “devil worship” and for the materialists, it’s “ignorant superstition,” but the tone of voice is exactly the same whichever phrase gets used.

Look past those cries of pious outrage and it becomes possible to glimpse a world of human experience that most people, through most of history, have treated as perfectly ordinary, but our culture has rejected for reasons of its own: a world full of living, conscious beings embodied in the forces of nature, with whom our species can cultivate mutually beneficial relationships. That world of human experience isn’t restricted to followers of the old religions of nature, or for that matter to the newer traditions along the same lines that are evolving around us today; there are, it deserves saying, plenty of Christians past and present who have found ways to integrate such insights into their own faith, and for all I know there are atheists (for some values of that word) who have managed the same thing, though I’ve yet to meet one.

What I’ve been discussing in this post, after all, is a matter of experience rather than ideology. Stop automatically discounting modes of experience that most human beings have treated as just as valid as the material senses, start paying attention to all the ways in which natural processes behave like subjects rather than objects, and you’ll find yourself stepping into a living world—or, more to the point, realizing that you’ve been in a living world all along. Your perceptions of that world, it bears repeating, are no more infallible than any other human perception; the beings who inhabit that world, for that matter, are not necessarily well-disposed to you, and are certainly not harmless—but it’s a lot less dead in that world than it is in the world that scientific materialists and their fundamentalist kissin’ cousins think they inhabit. For some of us, at least, that’s reason enough to make the transition.

John Michael Greer

31 Comments on "A Few Notes on Nature Spirits, Part Two: Into A Living World"

  1. Shortend on Wed, 6th Dec 2017 10:38 pm 

    Total BS…this is reality

    While forced labor is rife among Britain’s building sites, nail bars, factories and farms, car wash slavery is rocketing with unregulated sites sprouting up rapidly nationwide, according to the country’s anti-slavery agency and chief.

    Police are ramping up investigations but say the crime is tough to crack with 20,000 car washes believed to be flouting laws, most victims too scared to speak out, and the increasingly cash-squeezed British public hunting for ever cheaper services.

    “This is modern slavery on an industrial scale,” said Lysbeth Ford of the Gangmasters and Labour Abuse Authority (GLAA), Britain’s anti-slavery body. “The government and the police are not yet aware of the extent of car wash slavery”.
    And this is in BRITIAN

  2. Apneaman on Wed, 6th Dec 2017 11:01 pm 

    Global Warming’s Worst-Case Projections Look Increasingly Likely

    A new study based on satellite observations finds that temperatures could rise nearly 5 °C by the end of the century.

    Good luck transitioning to 5 °C. Not even a whole sub species of wizards can manage that. Civilization won’t survive 2 °C.

    No one will be enjoying the “experience” getting there.

  3. Apneaman on Wed, 6th Dec 2017 11:08 pm 

    Even Worse Fire Weather to Come as Blazes Rage over Southern California

  4. Apneaman on Wed, 6th Dec 2017 11:10 pm 

    Daily Record Highs are Dramatically Outpacing Daily Record Lows

    Monthly record highs have outnumbered monthly record lows at a rate of 9.7 to 1

    All-time record highs have outnumbered alltime record lows 8.7 to 1

  5. Makati1 on Wed, 6th Dec 2017 11:16 pm 

    The Great Leveling of America continues:

    “The most obvious example of how Americans have been dumbed down is through this nation’s failed public education system. At one time not that long ago America reigned supreme as a leading model for the rest of the world providing the best quality free public K-12 education system on the planet. But over the last many decades while much of the rest of the world has been passing us by, it seems an insidious federal agenda has been implemented to condition and brainwash a population of mindless, robotic citizenry that simply does what it’s told, and of course the brainwashing commences early in America’s schools….

    With an educational system that purposely misinforms and indoctrinates young people to respond as Skinnerian rats to a positive reinforcement schedule of operant conditioning, children as future adults are being shaped and programmed to become little robots easily controlled by their oligarch masters. …

    Another primary means of dumbing down America is through mass media. If the public is busily preoccupied with the superficial garbage spoon-fed to the masses every single day via television, movies, music, internet, video games that all act just as effective as the most potent drug dulling the senses and the brain, again an enormous control over the population is achieved and maintained. With so much entertainment as the modern day opiate to the masses to divert people’s attention, these weapons of mass distraction easily render people oblivious to see what is really happening in the world. Compound that with the lowest common denominator appealing to the most prurient interests such as pornography, crass materialism (using mind control techniques to manipulate consumers into spending money on false promises of sex, status and happiness), entertainment that dually serves as propaganda along with the mesmerizing effects captivated by sports that also draw enormous amounts of money, and the oligarchs have us right where they want us – numbed and dumbed.”

    Joachim Hagopian is a West Point graduate and former US Army officer. He has written a manuscript based on his unique military experience entitled “Don’t Let The Bastards Getcha Down.” It examines and focuses on US international relations, leadership and national security issues. After the military, Joachim earned a masters degree in Clinical Psychology and worked as a licensed therapist in the mental health field for more than a quarter century. He now concentrates on his writing.

  6. Davy on Thu, 7th Dec 2017 12:34 am 

    “Whenever someone makes a remarkable claim and cites GlobalResearch, they are almost certainly wrong.”

  7. sunweb on Thu, 7th Dec 2017 6:34 am 

    For fun:
    AND SO IT IS – A most ancient tale
    They became gods if you thought about them and they were sitting
    around thinking. What to do about humans?
    “They are so fragile” said one, “they have no claws.”
    “They are like babies,” said another “they have no hair.”
    “They are so dumb,” another spoke up, “ they are born knowing
    “Have you noticed they think they know it all,” spoke one from the
    back. “Just like a baby.”
    “How will they ever get along?” was the thought that ran through all of
    “Let’s give them a voice,” a small one spoke.
    “Birds talk” was one comment.
    “So do dogs and bees, “ added another.
    “Okay, let’s let them know they talk, each of them can talk inside
    themselves,” the small one suggested.
    There was a cosmic nod.
    So they did that for a while.
    They were sitting around thinking, “what to do about humans?”
    “Have you noticed they are worse,” said one.
    “They think they stand apart from the bird, the dog and the bee,” said
    “They are so arrogant, they hurt everything, “ said the one from the
    “All they think about, all they see in the world is themselves,” said one
    with a funny shape.
    “They think they are like us but not with us,” said the very round one.
    “And they are not very bright,” said the one from the back.
    “Maybe we should get rid of them,” said the one with the funny shape.
    “No, by talking to themselves, they have begun to learned about love,”
    said the very round one.
    “There must be an aching to teach them and bring them home,” said
    the small one.
    “What will they ache for?” said one that had a blue shine.
    “Let them realize they are travelers far from home,” said the small
    “How will they find home?” said the very round one.
    Suggestions flew around the Cosmos.
    “Let them sit and long for home.”
    “Let them dance to find us.”
    “Let them hurt so bad that they see beyond themselves.”
    “Let them follow the pulse of the drum.”
    “Let them eat the sacred plants.”
    “Let them travel the sexual landscape.”
    The small one spoke up. “They are so fragile and not very bright. Let
    them have all of these.”
    There was a great cosmic nod.
    And so it is.

  8. Cloggie on Thu, 7th Dec 2017 4:28 pm 

    Google working on self-driving bicycle in the Netherlands:

  9. antaris on Thu, 7th Dec 2017 6:05 pm 

    Clog I can picture it in my mind. Twenty five years in the future someone hacks the self driving bicycle software and 10’s of thousands of bicycles start crashing into
    things and falling over. The population had become so dumbed down, that many had never learned to balance or steer the bicycle they were riding on.

  10. Sissyfuss on Thu, 7th Dec 2017 8:47 pm 

    Watched the video, Clobnoxious. Mom’s home drinking a beer while the two 4 year olds are being cycled by some hacker to the pizza place where the Clinton’s hang out.

  11. fmr-paultard on Thu, 7th Dec 2017 9:10 pm 

    sis dear eurotard promoting dutch supremacism in theaters apr 1

  12. MASTERMIND on Thu, 7th Dec 2017 9:53 pm 


    China is going to default soon. And the people are going to have a massive uprising…Wait and see! And for the record all educational systems are systems of control. The first school was invented by Martin Luther to indoctrinate children into the church.

  13. Apneaman on Fri, 8th Dec 2017 2:25 pm 

    1% plans Blade Runner Walls against 250 mn Climate Refugees

    “When I asked why they were heading for the United States, one responded simply, “No hubo lluvia.” (“There was no rain.”) In their community, without rain, there had been neither crops, nor a harvest, nor food for their families, an increasingly common phenomenon in Central America. In 2015, for instance, 400,000 people living in what has become Honduras’s “dry corridor” planted their seeds and waited for rain that never came. As in a number of other places on this planet in this century, what came instead was an extreme drought that stole their livelihoods”

    Another AGW knock on effect. More illegals for the conservatard deniers.

    Your denial brings it on. To deny is to NOT prepare. The pain is here and more is unavoidable. The only option left to the humans is how they want to manage the fall. More denial means maximum pain.

    Apparently, tribal loyalty and clinging to obsolete ideologies trump all else including your loved ones near and longterm future.

    What once worked has been warped, captured and corrupted, but they just can’t admit it because their entire identities are based on capitalism and being a capitalist. History is littered with dead societies who refused to adapt to new realities. Cling, cling, cling to the tribe even though the leaders are fucking you at every turn.

    Why are people still loyal to these political tribes? None of them practice the original values they were based on.

    They represent two groups of super elites and a handful of rackets that milk everyone regardless of tribal loyalties. They do not represent the common man at all.

    It’s systemic and the system is rotten. No matter who is your supposed representative, they cannot do anything in a rotten system except play along or look away. Most play along. You & yours don’t count. The words that come out of their mouths do not match their records.

  14. Apneaman on Fri, 8th Dec 2017 5:02 pm 

    Rise of the Fimbul Fires: Climate Change Enhanced Jets of Flame Rage Across Southern California

  15. MASTERMIND on Fri, 8th Dec 2017 6:16 pm 

    Saudi Arabia may be out of oil to export by 2030 – Citibank

    Saudi Arabian oil reserves are overstated by 40% – Wikileaks

    Saudi Arabia’s Energy Minister Warns of World Oil Shortages Ahead

    Saudi Aramco CEO believes oil shortage coming despite U.S. shale boom

  16. GregT on Fri, 8th Dec 2017 7:44 pm 


    “Whenever someone makes a remarkable claim and cites GlobalResearch, they are almost certainly wrong.”

    “Almost certainly wrong” delusionalist? But only when somebody makes a remarkable claim? HaHaHa. Now that’s funny.

    What does ‘rational’ Wiki have to say about your hero(es) Tyler Durden?

    Zero Hedge is a batshit insane Austrian school finance blog run by two pseudonymous founders who post articles under the name “Tyler Durden,” after the character from Fight Club. It’s essentially apocalypse porn.

    Hmmm. Not seeing almost, certainly, virtually, or whenever. Only seeing “batshit insane” delusionalist.

    And just out of curiosity? Why the need for a tiny URL?

    Hahaha. 🙂

  17. GregT on Fri, 8th Dec 2017 8:05 pm 


    I see you’ve been digging through the archives. Good effort on your part. My only question to you would be; Why the need to repost that stuff under an article from JMG? Does it have something to do with your incredible intellectual abilities? Sorry dude, not quite getting it.

  18. MASTERMIND on Fri, 8th Dec 2017 8:25 pm 


    The question you should ask yourself is what would happen if there was a worldwide oil shortage?

    German Military (leaked) Peak Oil study concludes: oil is used directly or indirectly in the production of 90% of all manufactured products, so a shortage of oil would collapse the world economy & world governments

  19. GregT on Fri, 8th Dec 2017 8:34 pm 

    We’ve already been through this before MM. Have you forgotten already?

    The question you should be asking yourself is; What are you going to do about it?

    I’ve already positioned myself as best as I can. My wife and myself have spent over a decade planning. Whether or not we made all of the right decisions remains to be seen. If not, we’ll die trying.

  20. MASTERMIND on Fri, 8th Dec 2017 9:10 pm 


    What are you going to do without the rule of law and a government in place to protect you? Are you going to keep a gun on the roof and pick off zombies 24/7 for months? And you realize the zombies will have guns as well?

  21. GregT on Fri, 8th Dec 2017 9:32 pm 


    I would be far more concerned about myself, if I were you, than I would be about others. What are you doing /going to do MM?

  22. Makati1 on Fri, 8th Dec 2017 9:36 pm 

    Greg, MM is in his mom’s basement. He is safe. She probably weighs in at 300+ and will flatten any zombies. lol

  23. MASTERMIND on Fri, 8th Dec 2017 9:43 pm 


    Stop trying to change the subject I asked you a question? And madkat I have a better job then you ever had. You worked for a freaking church that believes god lives on a planet Kolob? Are you mentally retarded?

  24. GregT on Fri, 8th Dec 2017 9:49 pm 

    “Stop trying to change the subject I asked you a question?”

    I have absolutely zero concerns about 24/7 zombie hoards MM.

    Now your turn, answer MY question. What are you doing /going to do?

  25. GregT on Fri, 8th Dec 2017 10:20 pm 

    “And madkat I have a better job then you ever had.”

    The longer that you have that better than anybody else’s job MM, the more you’ll wish that you didn’t.

    Being the brilliant lad that you are, I’m sure you’ll figure it all out once you grow up.

  26. Makati1 on Fri, 8th Dec 2017 10:29 pm 

    MM,I have had a good life, raised a family and am able to retire comfortably for the rest of my years. YOU will never have any of those. Now, who had the ‘better job’? LMAO

  27. Makati1 on Fri, 8th Dec 2017 10:36 pm 

    MM, BTW: I ever worked for any church. That was free. I had a career in construction and made very good money. When you grow up, you might be able to read and understand, not assume.

  28. MASTERMIND on Fri, 8th Dec 2017 11:02 pm 


    You worked in construction LOL Talk about the dumbest of the dumb….You are so transparent..No wonder you fall for FAKE NEWS! Senile ole mummy!

  29. MASTERMIND on Fri, 8th Dec 2017 11:08 pm 

    Utah man fearing doomsday spent 30 years building bunkers

    said the man, fearing “end times” or some kind of collapse of society or the government”.

  30. Makati1 on Fri, 8th Dec 2017 11:22 pm 

    MM: I doubt that anyone would care what you think, child. I designed custom homes in the million dollar class and project managed the construction of multi-million dollar commercial projects, as some here can remember from previous posts. Not to mention several years designing million dollar office renovations in the 80s when a million was still big money. They were jobs requiring intelligence, skills, maturity, responsibility, etc. Things foreign to you.

  31. GregT on Fri, 8th Dec 2017 11:42 pm 

    “Utah man fearing doomsday spent 30 years building bunkers”

    What a sensationalist load of tripe. I thought you said you were intelligent MM.

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