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Re: wheat stockpiles to reach 59 year low

Unread postby roccman » Sat 13 Oct 2007, 11:24:11

wisconsin_cur wrote:btw welcome back rocc, I wondered where you went


Something Pops wrote last week struck a chord with me. I needed a rest.
"There must be a bogeyman; there always is, and it cannot be something as esoteric as "resource depletion." You can't go to war with that." Emersonbiggins
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Re: wheat stockpiles to reach 59 year low

Unread postby DoubleD » Sat 13 Oct 2007, 12:04:36

Last December/January I prebought all my inventory of stored grains, dried whole eggs, and powdered milk, among other things for 2007 (replace useage of reserved supply) because the handwriting was on the wall that inflation was going to get bad on food products - grain and dairy in particular. I think I called that one correctly.

I plan to do the same thing this year - but because I increased my stored reserves of grain last year - I won't be needing to buy as much at today's higher prices.

Grain and legumes are important to have adequate PROPERLY stored supplies of - my garden supplies all of our fresh produce and fruit - but I do not have enough property to grow grains and legumes... I think most people are in that situation.
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Re: wheat stockpiles to reach 59 year low

Unread postby Pops » Sat 13 Oct 2007, 14:48:40

Yea but the corn harvest is up a bit and that is the important thing right?…


Btw roc, what did I say?
The legitimate object of government, is to do for a community of people, whatever they need to have done, but can not do, at all, or can not, so well do, for themselves -- in their separate, and individual capacities.
-- Abraham Lincoln, Fragment on Government (July 1, 1854)
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Re: wheat stockpiles to reach 59 year low

Unread postby dohboi » Sat 13 Oct 2007, 15:00:21

DoubleD, can you give any details on how to "properly store" grains? I too have a hand mill, but I'm not sure how to store largish quatities of grains to insure they keep well. Suggestions? Have you tried making noodles with your hand-milled grain? I find you have to sift it pretty fine to get the noodles to stick together.
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Re: wheat stockpiles to reach 59 year low

Unread postby Pops » Sat 13 Oct 2007, 15:50:21

Try looking here http://www.peakoil.com/fortopic32766.html
and in the downloads section,
both will be under:
Food Storage.

On second thought those suggestions seem kind of funny going out to someone who registered almost 2 years ago, anyway fwiw…
The legitimate object of government, is to do for a community of people, whatever they need to have done, but can not do, at all, or can not, so well do, for themselves -- in their separate, and individual capacities.
-- Abraham Lincoln, Fragment on Government (July 1, 1854)
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Re: wheat stockpiles to reach 59 year low

Unread postby FoolYap » Sat 13 Oct 2007, 16:16:19

wisconsin_cur wrote:Depends on what you are buying. I have a grain mill and an arm to turn it with. I can get hard red winter wheat at ~10.00 per 50#.


Also depends on where you live. I also have a hand-cranked grain mill (the Country Living milll; two thumbs way up), and I can also buy a 50-pound bag of whole wheat for not much. But, I'll pay a bundle to have it trucked to me. Not much wheat being grown in New England, and what little there is appears to be bought by boutique bakeries or breweries. I've yet to find local wheat that I can purchase. :(

--Steve
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Re: wheat stockpiles to reach 59 year low

Unread postby wisconsin_cur » Sat 13 Oct 2007, 16:20:23

FoolYap wrote:
wisconsin_cur wrote:Depends on what you are buying. I have a grain mill and an arm to turn it with. I can get hard red winter wheat at ~10.00 per 50#.


Also depends on where you live. I also have a hand-cranked grain mill (the Country Living milll; two thumbs way up), and I can also buy a 50-pound bag of whole wheat for not much. But, I'll pay a bundle to have it trucked to me. Not much wheat being grown in New England, and what little there is appears to be bought by boutique bakeries or breweries. I've yet to find local wheat that I can purchase. :(

--Steve


Are there any feed stores that have it trucked in for animal feed?

Food Co-ops that buy in bulk?
http://www.thenewfederalistpapers.com
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Re: wheat stockpiles to reach 59 year low

Unread postby cube » Sat 13 Oct 2007, 16:21:59

An argument can be said it's not wheat stock piles that are important but ultimately world wheat inventory relative to population. I'd like to see a graph of that!

The article states we may reach a 59 year low. However it's important to note there was a lot less people on this planet back in 1949. Maybe things are actually much worse then it appears?

And finally to add extra doom to the gloom, I'd like to state it is NOT necessary to deplete inventories down to zero to have starvation. There will always be rich people that would like to have an excess supply in storage for stability. However if the price gets high enough some people will get left out of the market. Take a look at crude oil. We still a very decent supply of oil in storage but there's a lot of people in the 3rd world who have been priced out of the market....the Zimbabwe's and Burma's of the world.

How high does wheat have to get for some people to stop eating it? 8O
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Re: wheat stockpiles to reach 59 year low

Unread postby wisconsin_cur » Sat 13 Oct 2007, 16:27:44

cube wrote:An argument can be said it's not wheat stock piles that are important but ultimately world wheat inventory relative to population. I'd like to see a graph of that!

The article states we may reach a 59 year low. However it's important to note there was a lot less people on this planet back in 1949. Maybe things are actually much worse then it appears?

And finally to add extra doom to the gloom, I'd like to state it is NOT necessary to deplete inventories down to zero to have starvation. There will always be rich people that would like to have an excess supply in storage for stability. However if the price gets high enough some people will get left out of the market. Take a look at crude oil. We still a very decent supply of oil in storage but there's a lot of people in the 3rd world who have been priced out of the market....the Zimbabwe's and Burma's of the world.

How high does wheat have to get for some people to stop eating it? 8O


great point!!

and lets not forget about those evil third world nations which subsidize the cost of wheat... we better pull them into line otherwise the poorest might not starve first. That would be socialism dang it!
http://www.thenewfederalistpapers.com
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Re: wheat stockpiles to reach 59 year low

Unread postby mommy22 » Sat 13 Oct 2007, 17:38:36

"Let them eat cake!" The rule at the time was that if the bakery ran out of bread for what ever reason, they were obligated to sell cake at the price of bread. That's how that phrase came to be...not because of not feeling the plight of the poor.
Perhaps, if bread becomes hard to come by in the future, the rules will again be changed to suit the situation.
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Re: wheat stockpiles to reach 59 year low

Unread postby cube » Sat 13 Oct 2007, 18:15:59

mommy22 wrote:"Let them eat cake!" The rule at the time was that if the bakery ran out of bread for what ever reason, they were obligated to sell cake at the price of bread...


I guess everybody has a different version of this phrase. wikipedia says: Let Them Eat Cake
...it is a reference to "oven cake" which was used to clean out the brick ovens when too much soot and creosote built up. So, with this meaning saying "let them eat cake" would be nearly equivalent to saying "let them eat garbage".
WOW I'm not sure who to believe now!
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Re: wheat stockpiles to reach 59 year low

Unread postby dohboi » Sat 13 Oct 2007, 18:22:08

Thanks for the link, pops. And as for "On second thought those suggestions seem kind of funny going out to someone who registered almost 2 years ago, anyway fwiw…"--guilty as charged. Just general dimness and denial is all I can say. I've been mostly into the policy and economics discussions, no so much into the survival stuff thus far. I don't really consider my personal survival all that important, I guess. But I have been involved in local coops and other groups that may help sustain the community. Each to his own. Thanks again.
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Re: wheat stockpiles to reach 59 year low

Unread postby cube » Sat 13 Oct 2007, 18:53:02

wisconsin_cur wrote:...
great point!!

and lets not forget about those evil third world nations which subsidize the cost of wheat... we better pull them into line otherwise the poorest might not starve first. That would be socialism dang it!
If you're making a reference to 3rd world nations that subsidize fuel --> IMHO the money would of been MUCH better spent keeping a balanced budget thereby eliminating inflation which destroys peoples' savings. The benefits of a stable currency would of done much more to help the poor rather then give them welfare in the form of subsidized fuel.

One reason why 3rd world nations ALWAYS remain poor is because it is impossible for people to save their money and invest in improving their lives. Every time they save up any amount of money it's value "disappears" in the form of inflation. It's a never ending cycle.

my 2 cents
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Re: wheat stockpiles to reach 59 year low

Unread postby wisconsin_cur » Sat 13 Oct 2007, 20:31:01

cube wrote:
wisconsin_cur wrote:...
great point!!

and lets not forget about those evil third world nations which subsidize the cost of wheat... we better pull them into line otherwise the poorest might not starve first. That would be socialism dang it!
If you're making a reference to 3rd world nations that subsidize fuel --> IMHO the money would of been MUCH better spent keeping a balanced budget thereby eliminating inflation which destroys peoples' savings. The benefits of a stable currency would of done much more to help the poor rather then give them welfare in the form of subsidized fuel.

One reason why 3rd world nations ALWAYS remain poor is because it is impossible for people to save their money and invest in improving their lives. Every time they save up any amount of money it's value "disappears" in the form of inflation. It's a never ending cycle.

my 2 cents


the first phrase was sincere. the comments about subsidies was a sarcastic swipe at the inane, no win, tangled situation that we are in.

I am in a mood today. Maybe I will be better tomorrow. Monday I will be able to go do some good heavy work... that will help. I will be outside even though we are expecting rain (yet again).
http://www.thenewfederalistpapers.com
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Re: wheat stockpiles to reach 59 year low

Unread postby FoolYap » Sat 13 Oct 2007, 20:36:22

wisconsin_cur wrote:Are there any feed stores that have it trucked in for animal feed?

Food Co-ops that buy in bulk?


Not many feed stores around here (central Massachusetts) that I've found; just a few small-scale places that probably mostly sell bagged mixes for poultry & such.

I've checked at one organic store that sells bulk wheat, but they tend to deal with "pound at a time" quantities to people wanting to grow sprouts I guess, and they didn't want to bother with placing bulk orders for me. I haven't found a food co-op that sells it bulk, but I need to get more aggressive in my spare time. :-D Being diabetic, I don't use all that much flour as-is, so if I gotta spend $40 for a 50-pound bag, and it lasts me two years, "oh well."

I'd really love to find a local source, though. There's not gonna be trucks running bags of wheat to me from Out West forever. There is one farm a bit west of here that raises & sells chicken and grass-fed beef, that I've gotta call; their web-site said they were planning to try growing wheat this year to sell... But I'll bet it's not gonna be $10 per 50 pounds. :cry:

--Steve
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Re: wheat stockpiles to reach 59 year low

Unread postby Homesteader » Sat 13 Oct 2007, 21:55:16

Steve,

Here is a link to a Massachusetts feed store that sells bagged wheat:

http://www.horseandbuggyfeeds.com/organicfeeds.htm

Google search: Massachusetts Horse Feed

Horse people are picky. If they would feed it to their horses it is good enough for me.
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Re: wheat stockpiles to reach 59 year low

Unread postby FoolYap » Sat 13 Oct 2007, 22:11:10

Homesteader wrote:Steve,

Here is a link to a Massachusetts feed store that sells bagged wheat:

http://www.horseandbuggyfeeds.com/organicfeeds.htm

Google search: Massachusetts Horse Feed

Horse people are picky. If they would feed it to their horses it is good enough for me.


Awesome, thanks, Homesteader! --Steve
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Re: wheat stockpiles to reach 59 year low

Unread postby DoubleD » Sat 13 Oct 2007, 23:48:31

dohboi wrote:DoubleD, can you give any details on how to "properly store" grains? I too have a hand mill, but I'm not sure how to store largish quatities of grains to insure they keep well. Suggestions? Have you tried making noodles with your hand-milled grain? I find you have to sift it pretty fine to get the noodles to stick together.


Whole grain stored in five or six gallon buckets lined with mylar. The mylar bag is heat sealed shut (using an iron) after removing as much air as possible and after adding two large oxygen absorber packs. Will last more than 15 years if properly stored (dark, dry, cool, and absence of oxygen).

I am not Mormon - but I would refer you to the best resource of food storage there is which happens to be a Mormon publication:

Check it Out

I have an electric wheat grinder AND a hand grinder. I will use the electric grinder as long as power is abundant and available to me. I bake whole grain bread about every two or three weeks - making 3 loaves that I put in the freezer. We go through about a loaf a week - so it is usually every third week that I bake bread. It's easy and low tech - and it tastes good too!

I also use the wheat in a variety of other cooking as well - including noodles (have a hand crank pasta machine) - however I recommend using "soft" wheat for noodles and biscuits etc... and use the hard wheat varieties for bread and other yeast products that need the higher protein/gluten to rise well. I keep both hard and soft varieties on hand.
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Re: wheat stockpiles to reach 59 year low

Unread postby DoubleD » Sun 14 Oct 2007, 00:06:11

Well it appears that site is having some server difficulties (which is a shame because it is the best reference source I have found in my many years of prepping)... anyway... here is another great resource with info on food storage.

Alan T Hagan's Food Storage FAQ
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Re: wheat stockpiles to reach 59 year low

Unread postby eXpat » Sun 14 Oct 2007, 05:21:15

The International Grains Council is warning grain importing nations to check their stocks and brace for a halt in imports link.

Expected to be hit hardest by an import halt scenario are import dependent nations like Japan, said Estuo Kitahara, director general of the London-based IGC. The council observes grain trade and offers market information to 25 member countries and the European Union
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