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Wildfires 2020 Thread

Re: Wildfires 2020 Thread

Unread postby Plantagenet » Thu 30 Jul 2020, 02:15:46

The wildfires in Siberia are so huge that we're getting quite severe smoke and haze here from the smoke drifting thousands of miles from Siberia to Alaska and then on into the rest of North America.

Image

And its not just visibly smoky here in Alaska......they're getting smoke and haze down into Canada and even down into the lower 48 states.

What an amazing summer we're having.

We're on track to have both a new record low Arctic Ocean sea ice extent and a new record high global temperature this year...... :) 8) :roll: :twisted:

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Re: Wildfires 2020 Thread

Unread postby dohboi » Fri 31 Jul 2020, 03:17:30

Thanks for that info, P. Wow. I had no idea that smoke from those fires spread so far.

Meanwhile, a bit further south:


https://www.theguardian.com/environment ... rana-river

'Everything is burning': Argentina's delta fires rage out of control

Cattle ranching and drought have turned the Paraná River grasslands to tinder, threatening disaster for the area’s wildlife

A raging fire described as “completely out of control” is threatening one of South America’s major wetland ecosystems. The fire has been burning for months now, and is visible from the balconies of luxury apartments along the shoreline of the Paraná River in Argentina’s central city of Rosario.

In normal times, Rosario’s riverfront homes enjoy a spectacular view of the seemingly never-ending green grasslands on the opposite bank of the Paraná, a waterway stretching over a mile across as it passes through the city.

In recent months, however, dwellers in the luxury condos have been congregating on their balconies as the wall of red flames from thousands of fires raging through the Paraná delta grasslands rises high into the sky.

“Everything is burning, it’s completely out of control,” Leonel Mingo, a spokesperson for Greenpeace Argentina, told the Guardian. “Once a fire reaches that scale, it becomes virtually impossible to stop.”

The Paraná is South America’s second largest river after the Amazon and the eighth longest river in the world. Its floodplain, known by Rosarinos as “la isla”, is not actually an island, but a vast delta covering some 15,000km2 , through which the Paraná drains towards the Atlantic Ocean 300km away.

The giant delta is clearly visible in satellite imagery as a dark green wedge on the northern margin of the Paraná from Rosario to Buenos Aires.

Giant plumes of smoke from the fires raging since February have at times covered the streets of Rosario and other places along the Paraná with a layer of ash from scorched plants and animals. The air in Rosario has been unbreathable for weeks at a time.

Far from abating, the number of fires has been rising. Liotta works at the Scasso Natural Science Museum in San Nicolás, where he has been monitoring the delta fires via Nasa satellites. “We’ve identified 8,024 likely fires so far this year, almost half of them this month of July.”


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Liotta worked backwards and found the scale of the calamity was unprecedented.

The average number of yearly satellite-detected hotspots was only 1,800 in 2012–2019. We’re already at over 8,000 and barely halfway through the year.”

Although cattle ranchers, illegal hunters and property developers have encroached on its rich habitat, the Paraná delta still teems with diverse wildlife, all facing a dire challenge to their survival.

Liotta says it breaks his heart to imagine the scale of destruction. “I can’t help thinking about the animals when I see the fires. If we humans are suffering so much, can you imagine what it must be like for the creatures being burned alive?”
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Re: Wildfires 2020 Thread

Unread postby dohboi » Tue 04 Aug 2020, 15:22:01

Hurricane, Fire, Covid-19: Disasters Expose the Hard Reality of Climate Change

Twin emergencies on two coasts this week — Hurricane Isaias and the Apple Fire — offer a preview of life in a warming world and the steady danger of overlapping disasters.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/08/04/clim ... imate.html

A low-grade hurricane that is slowly scraping along the East Coast. A wildfire in California that has led to evacuation orders for 8,000 people. And in both places, as well as everywhere between, a pandemic that keeps worsening.

The daily morning briefing from the Federal Emergency Management Agency, usually a dry document full of acronyms and statistics, has begun to resemble the setup for a disaster movie. But rather than a freak occurrence, experts say that the pair of hazards bracketing the country this week offers a preview of life under climate change: a relentless grind of overlapping disasters, major or minor.

The coronavirus pandemic has further exposed flaws in the nation’s defenses, including weak construction standards in vulnerable areas, underfunded government agencies, and racial and income disparities that put some communities at greater risk. Experts argue that the country must fundamentally rethink how it prepares for similar disasters as the effects of global warming accelerate.

“State and local governments already stretched with Covid responses must now stretch even further,” said Lisa Anne Hamilton, adaptation program director at the Georgetown Climate Center in Washington. Better planning and preparation are crucial, she added, as the frequency and intensity of disasters increase...


This is what the future looks like, but with ever more, ever greater, and ever more overlapping disasters on all fronts...
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Re: Wildfires 2020 Thread

Unread postby jedrider » Mon 24 Aug 2020, 19:11:18

California wildfires now as big as the Grand Canyon
https://www.sfgate.com/california-wildfires/article/California-wildfires-size-as-big-as-grand-canyon-15511060.php

You guys forgot about this thread I suppose, so I might as well update it.

Since I live in the Bay Area of Northern California, I'm not oblivious to what's going on around me. I'm home a lot, of course (aren't we all), but on my few trips I have noted how completely dry most vegetation is. It is very obvious when it does not look healthy. It's just a tinderbox ready to go. As soon as the smoke clears, I'm going to take some more little trips because I'm very curious when my own neighborhood will go up in smoke. One of my favorite hiking areas, Purisima, is right over the hill. It seemed alright last year that I went, but borderline. I'll take pictures this time to document it. I missed out on visiting the Big Basin State Park recently. Eight years ago when I went, it was doing just fine. Now, it's in flames.
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Re: Wildfires 2020 Thread

Unread postby sparky » Mon 24 Aug 2020, 22:08:35

.
Here in Australia winter is over and we will get into the bush-fires season around Christmas
last year was an horror , started early and just never let down
this year should be easier , there has been some good rains over the ranges ,
the paddocks are green the dams and creeks got water in them
there will still be fires , of course , how bad is the unknown
the critical factor is rains in Spring and temperatures
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Re: Wildfires 2020 Thread

Unread postby jedrider » Tue 25 Aug 2020, 10:32:16

Cal Fire Chief on SCU Lightning Complex Fire: 'We are living in a mega-fire era'
https://www.sfgate.com/california-wildfires/article/SCU-Lightning-Complex-Fire-10-contained-now-15510282.php

(Nice video footage in that link.)

It is clear that we have turned a corner here in California. Some other news was that the Federal government and California are to start thinning the forests in California.

That's sort of like Trump's 'cleaning the leaves' meme from a year ago. It's true, we need to clean the leaves, cut down and haul away the remnants of the dead forests.
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Re: Wildfires 2020 Thread

Unread postby careinke » Wed 26 Aug 2020, 01:40:53

jedrider wrote:Cal Fire Chief on SCU Lightning Complex Fire: 'We are living in a mega-fire era'
https://www.sfgate.com/california-wildfires/article/SCU-Lightning-Complex-Fire-10-contained-now-15510282.php

(Nice video footage in that link.)

It is clear that we have turned a corner here in California. Some other news was that the Federal government and California are to start thinning the forests in California.

That's sort of like Trump's 'cleaning the leaves' meme from a year ago. It's true, we need to clean the leaves, cut down and haul away the remnants of the dead forests.


NOOOO!!!! It cant be true, TRUMP said it, it has to be a lie!/Sarcasm.

Actually, with a little permaculture geoengineering, California could fix itself.
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Re: Wildfires 2020 Thread

Unread postby REAL Green » Wed 26 Aug 2020, 05:54:46

jedrider wrote:It is clear that we have turned a corner here in California. Some other news was that the Federal government and California are to start thinning the forests in California.


We took a wrong turn with Smokey Bear. We interrupted the natural system by eliminating natural fires. Fuel has to be minimized. Fire prone areas need to be made into natural areas. This means eliminating development in some areas. Lots of degrowth things to do in California to make it liveable.
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Re: Wildfires 2020 Thread

Unread postby Newfie » Wed 26 Aug 2020, 17:28:22

Real,

Have you read “Two Years Before the Mast” by Hanna?

Great descriptions of SoCal.
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Re: Wildfires 2020 Thread

Unread postby jedrider » Wed 26 Aug 2020, 17:43:33

REAL Green wrote:
jedrider wrote:It is clear that we have turned a corner here in California. Some other news was that the Federal government and California are to start thinning the forests in California.


We took a wrong turn with Smokey Bear. We interrupted the natural system by eliminating natural fires. Fuel has to be minimized. Fire prone areas need to be made into natural areas. This means eliminating development in some areas. Lots of degrowth things to do in California to make it liveable.


True, but we also live in a new era dominated by the changes of a warming climate. It is going to take a drastic rethink of how we live here.

Cleaning the leaves is going to be the new meme, I'm afraid to say. The natural system is going to have to be managed differently, but not by logging companies. We want to preserve the big trees and remove the brush. The logging companies would keep the brush but remove the big trees.

California is now on 24/7/365 day fire alert. When Cal Fire is not putting out fires, they are going to be hauling away brush and vulnerable (to fire) trees. If you're a fire fighter, you know where to go.
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Re: Wildfires 2020 Thread

Unread postby careinke » Thu 27 Aug 2020, 04:21:29

jedrider wrote:
REAL Green wrote:
jedrider wrote:It is clear that we have turned a corner here in California. Some other news was that the Federal government and California are to start thinning the forests in California.


We took a wrong turn with Smokey Bear. We interrupted the natural system by eliminating natural fires. Fuel has to be minimized. Fire prone areas need to be made into natural areas. This means eliminating development in some areas. Lots of degrowth things to do in California to make it liveable.


True, but we also live in a new era dominated by the changes of a warming climate. It is going to take a drastic rethink of how we live here.

Cleaning the leaves is going to be the new meme, I'm afraid to say. The natural system is going to have to be managed differently, but not by logging companies. We want to preserve the big trees and remove the brush. The logging companies would keep the brush but remove the big trees.

California is now on 24/7/365 day fire alert. When Cal Fire is not putting out fires, they are going to be hauling away brush and vulnerable (to fire) trees. If you're a fire fighter, you know where to go.


Way better to chip it and let it lie on the forest floor, building soil and
mycelium at the same time while hydrating the soil. Plus you don't have to haul it. Just sayin...
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Re: Wildfires 2020 Thread

Unread postby JuanP » Mon 31 Aug 2020, 17:32:44

"Brazil's Pantanal, world's largest wetland, burns from above and below"
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-braz ... SKBN25P0NR

The Pantanal is almost the size of Uruguay or the US state of Missouri.
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Re: Wildfires 2020 Thread

Unread postby jedrider » Tue 01 Sep 2020, 01:04:29

JuanP wrote:"Brazil's Pantanal, world's largest wetland, burns from above and below"
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-braz ... SKBN25P0NR

The Pantanal is almost the size of Uruguay or the US state of Missouri.


We're talking about jumping from the frying pan into the fire. How nice.
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Re: Wildfires 2020 Thread

Unread postby jedrider » Fri 11 Sep 2020, 00:46:52

10% of Population of State of Oregon Under Evacuation Due to Wildfires
https://www.huffpost.com/entry/oregon-residents-evacuations-wildfire_n_5f5af566c5b62874bc1af3db

When I saw that headline I realized 'Is that all the people they have?' They have way more trees than people.

All the more reason it is burning up, I guess. And California and Washington State, too.

This marks an historic milestone for the fires of the West Coast. I think we've entered the age of Mega Fires.

And we're still on schedule if one believes what Guy McPherson has been saying.

I canceled my mountain getaway trip for this weekend. Just barely got my trip in to Yosemite and Big Sur before they shut them down. Ash is on the cars. Yesterday was like a solar eclipse, it was so dark.
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Re: Wildfires 2020 Thread

Unread postby REAL Green » Fri 11 Sep 2020, 06:03:25

“Study finds humans are behind costly, increasing risk of wildfire to millions of homes”
https://phys.org/news/2020-09-humans-co ... homes.html

“People are starting almost all the wildfires that threaten U.S. homes, according to an innovative new analysis combining housing and wildfire data. Through activities like debris burning, equipment use and arson, humans were responsible for igniting 97% of home-threatening wildfires, a University of Colorado Boulder-led team reported this week in the journal Fire. Moreover, one million homes sat within the boundaries of wildfires in the last 24 years, the team found. That's five times previous estimates, which did not consider the damage done and threatened by small fires. Nearly 59 million more homes in the wildland-urban interface lay within a kilometer of fires. "We have vastly underestimated the wildfire risk to our homes," said lead author Nathan Mietkiewicz, who led the research as a postdoc in Earth Lab, part of CIRES at the University of Colorado Boulder. "We've been living with wildfire risk that we haven't fully understood…Among their findings: Humans caused 97% of all wildfires in the wildland-urban interface, 85% of all wildfires in "very-low-density housing" areas, and 59% of all wildfires in wildlands between 1992 and 2015. Human-started wildfires are expensive, eating up about one-third of all firefighting costs. Overall, about half of fire suppression costs were related to protecting houses in all locations: the wildland-urban interface, low-density housing areas, and elsewhere. Most human-caused wildfires were relatively small (<4 km2) but were responsible for most homes threatened (92%). The wildland-urban interface or "WUI," represented only 10% of U.S. land in 2010, but was the site of 32% of all wildfire ignitions. The WUI is also expanding our vulnerability, between 1992 and 2015, we built 32 million new homes in the WUI.”
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Re: Wildfires 2020 Thread

Unread postby Newfie » Fri 11 Sep 2020, 08:23:39

Realgreen;

Yup, we are pretty stupid. Its a pretty clear example of how we understand the process but can not bring ourselves to change our behavior. And so it goes.
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Re: Wildfires 2020 Thread

Unread postby jedrider » Fri 11 Sep 2020, 15:41:04

As I was saying:

The Age Of The ‘Megafire’ Is Upon Us
https://www.forbes.com/sites/arielcohen/2020/09/11/the-age-of-the-megafire-is-upon-us/#c193ba59cab1

If not us, nature would light it's own fires via lightning strikes. We have actually thinned out the forest by building roads and homes, although the homes are part of the combustible material as well (I occasionally see a new shake roof being installed and I wonder 'do building codes still allow that?')

No, not to do with humans, but only to do with the forests are no longer supported by our new climate regime, and that is human caused as Newsome rightly says.
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Re: Wildfires 2020 Thread

Unread postby Ibon » Fri 11 Sep 2020, 18:49:30

Interesting podcast about what is behind the incentives for California to keep rebuilding homes in these fire prone areas and how the insurance companies are reaching the point where they will exit this market and no longer insure home owners who choose to build in these areas.
There is some real interesting discussion here about how we are close, for the first time in the USA, to actually not rebuild in disaster prone areas. The pressure from insurance companies is leading the way here.

We discussed this in the past regarding sea level rise and how coastal communities will one day be forced to be abandoned.

Whether it be coastal communities or residential areas in fire prone areas once we start this ball rolling of not rebuilding in these vulnerable areas this is going to have really profound impact on housing and migration of populations away from these areas. The 2nd part of this podcast gets into this.


https://podcasts.google.com/feed/aHR0cH ... IJhAF&ep=6
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Re: Wildfires 2020 Thread

Unread postby Plantagenet » Sat 12 Sep 2020, 12:26:16

Apparently some people in rural and forested areas in Oregon and other parts of the west believe that BLM/antifa leftists are intentionally setting all the forest fires around them. They think that because the number of fires is unprecedented that people must be setting them.

half-million-people-evacuated-oregon-wildfires-spread-arson-concerns-grow]


The authorities are trying to debunk these rumors as conspiracy theories, but at least one arsonist was actually caught in the act and arrested when he was seen setting a fire in a freeway median strip and the horrible fire in Ashland and Medford Oregon that caused multiple casualties is also under investigation as arson.

Its easy to see how such rumors might seem credible. Arson actually is one of the chief tactics of the BLM/antifia rioters. In city after city, starting in Minneapolis and continuing every day in Portland the rioters have burned out stores, police stations, restaurants, family-owned businesses and some homes. In Portland there have been almost nightly arson attacks on the Federal Courthouse, Police buildings, and other buildings, with BLM/antifa rioters shooting fireworks and throwing incendiary devices into the Federal Courthouse or firing them directly at the police protecting the building. The BLM/antifa arson attacks in Portland could potentially kill a lot of people, because those buildings are occupied by actual living people, showing that the leftists carrying out the arson attacks are murderous and possibly deranged pyromaniacs. IMHO Its not unreasonable to wonder if the same crazy leftist arsonists who carry out nightly arson attacks in Portland with no regard to potential loss of human life might also be doing arson attacks outside of Portland as well.
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Re: Wildfires 2020 Thread

Unread postby dohboi » Sat 12 Sep 2020, 16:58:57

just keep repeating your lies, P. I'm sure someone will believe them eventually! :lol: :lol: :lol:

the rumors are just more proof that far right wing paranoid fantasies really do have no limits

Minneapolis police say 'Umbrella Man' was a white supremacist trying to incite George Floyd rioting

"This was the first fire that set off a string of fires and looting throughout the precinct and the rest of the city," Sgt. Erika Christensen wrote in a search warrant affidavit filed in court this week. "Until the actions of the person your affiant has been calling 'Umbrella Man,' the protests had been relatively peaceful. The actions of this person created an atmosphere of hostility and tension. Your affiant believes that this individual's sole aim was to incite violence."


https://www.startribune.com/police-umbr ... 571932272/
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